Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:04 pm
lol I lack basketball knowledge? This comming from the guy who thinks that Ron Artest locked down Paul Pierce single handedly. 
But lets see how your expert logic is.
Where did you pull that one from? This is the first I've heard of this, and I just googled it to see if there was such a vote. Nothing came back. If this is the case, the Pacers should trade him immediately, especially if the players you mentioned are available. But I doubt they are. Why would the clippers give up maggette? Who else would atlanta have to give up (or golden state) to make sure Indiana gets both Pietrus and Harrington?
And considering Donnie Walsh already tried to get Harrington from atlanta and was barred, you would think he would jump at the opportunity.
Do you even follow the Pacers? Rick Carlisle is one of the more forgiving and understanding coaches I have ever seen. And how did he disrespect him? Compare that to how other coaches talk about their players (Jackson about Kobe, Larry Brown to any of his players, Scott Skiles to ny high profile player on the bulls not named hinrich). What Artest said was so overblown its not even funny.
I have nothing but respect for Jermaine O'neal, I even said he was a better leader than KG. But you do not say "choose between him or me", whether you are talking to a girlfriend, a best friend, a parent, or the media. You just dont force people into choosing between others. It's selfish and its stupid. Let them decide for themselves... and wait, hold on; Jermaine O'neal betrayed Ron Artest! He went to the media!! omg!!
You have got to be kidding. With Artest in 2004 the Pacers were the best team until the pistons stole rasheed from atlanta. in 2005, without Artest, how did they go exactly? They choked away a chance to win the series in game 6 against the celtics before recovering to beat the worst 3 seed in the history of the nba since they adopted the 16 team format. Then they got steamrolled by detroit after going up 2-1. Remember the same season, they absolutely dominated the pistons in the brawl game, and i have no doubts in my mind they would have done the same in the playoffs had they had him.
Neither was Charles Barkley, but you didnt see teams flat out deactivating him.
Oh cry me a river. They played in 94 and 95 when Jordan wasn't around and they couldnt get the job done. In 99 they choked against the Knicks and after the trip to the finals they decided to rebuild. The only good thing they really did was trade for Jermaine O'neal. The Antonio Davis deal was terrible. The Jalen Rose deal was ok until they wasted Artest's talents. The Brad Miller sign and trade was bad. The Austin Croshere extension was horrible. The Jackson trade was OK. Yeah props to Donnie Walsh
.
The Bottom line is, the Pacers are hurting themselves the longer they keep it going. A low playoff seed is too hard to overcome, just ask the 2003 lakers. They need to get some positivie momentum, and the longer they take, the more and more they hurt their franchise and its fans. Just open your eyes to it and stop blaming one guy for all your franchise fuck ups.
But lets see how your expert logic is.
1.) The players took a vote, they had 3 choices. Option 1- Bring Ron Back. Option 2- No opinion either way. Option 3- KEEP HIM AWAY. Every single player voted 3. You want to bring back a guy NOBODY ON THE TEAM WANTS THERE??
Where did you pull that one from? This is the first I've heard of this, and I just googled it to see if there was such a vote. Nothing came back. If this is the case, the Pacers should trade him immediately, especially if the players you mentioned are available. But I doubt they are. Why would the clippers give up maggette? Who else would atlanta have to give up (or golden state) to make sure Indiana gets both Pietrus and Harrington?
And considering Donnie Walsh already tried to get Harrington from atlanta and was barred, you would think he would jump at the opportunity.
2.) Even if he was brought back, there is no way Rick could play him. After you publicly disrespect a coach like that to the media, and that coaches name is Rick Carlisle, you can forget ever playing for him ever again.
Do you even follow the Pacers? Rick Carlisle is one of the more forgiving and understanding coaches I have ever seen. And how did he disrespect him? Compare that to how other coaches talk about their players (Jackson about Kobe, Larry Brown to any of his players, Scott Skiles to ny high profile player on the bulls not named hinrich). What Artest said was so overblown its not even funny.
3.) Jermaine O'Neal's comments. If I have to choose between Ron and Jermaine, I'm choosing Jermaine without a doubt. Jermaine strongly came out and said its him or me, and you definitley don't bring Ron back when doing so means Jermaine will demand a trade. How stupid is that?
I have nothing but respect for Jermaine O'neal, I even said he was a better leader than KG. But you do not say "choose between him or me", whether you are talking to a girlfriend, a best friend, a parent, or the media. You just dont force people into choosing between others. It's selfish and its stupid. Let them decide for themselves... and wait, hold on; Jermaine O'neal betrayed Ron Artest! He went to the media!! omg!!
He would have done something again to fuck us up again. As much as I wanted to believe it during the offseason, we weren't contenders with Artest.
You have got to be kidding. With Artest in 2004 the Pacers were the best team until the pistons stole rasheed from atlanta. in 2005, without Artest, how did they go exactly? They choked away a chance to win the series in game 6 against the celtics before recovering to beat the worst 3 seed in the history of the nba since they adopted the 16 team format. Then they got steamrolled by detroit after going up 2-1. Remember the same season, they absolutely dominated the pistons in the brawl game, and i have no doubts in my mind they would have done the same in the playoffs had they had him.
He is not a winner
Neither was Charles Barkley, but you didnt see teams flat out deactivating him.
One finals apperance in our NBA history? That's right, we played during the Jordan days, and if we didn't Reggie would have at least 1 ring.
Oh cry me a river. They played in 94 and 95 when Jordan wasn't around and they couldnt get the job done. In 99 they choked against the Knicks and after the trip to the finals they decided to rebuild. The only good thing they really did was trade for Jermaine O'neal. The Antonio Davis deal was terrible. The Jalen Rose deal was ok until they wasted Artest's talents. The Brad Miller sign and trade was bad. The Austin Croshere extension was horrible. The Jackson trade was OK. Yeah props to Donnie Walsh
.
The Bottom line is, the Pacers are hurting themselves the longer they keep it going. A low playoff seed is too hard to overcome, just ask the 2003 lakers. They need to get some positivie momentum, and the longer they take, the more and more they hurt their franchise and its fans. Just open your eyes to it and stop blaming one guy for all your franchise fuck ups.
Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:14 pm
lol why am i not surprised you're taking the players side, this case it being Ron Artest...
ok resume debate. let's keep the personnal comments to a minimum, it's taking away from an otherwise good discussion
ok resume debate. let's keep the personnal comments to a minimum, it's taking away from an otherwise good discussion
Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:23 pm
Hey Matthew, you want to make a friendly wager? I'd be willing to put money on a Ron for Maggette trade right now, how about if this trade happens, you have to put something in your sig that says something like "Indy > Matthew" or something much more creative. 
You choose what I have to do if the deal doesn't get done.
About the vote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... 230-060101
Stein: Artest later rescinded his request and asked the Pacers to keep him. You responded by saying "we can never play together again" and management agreed. Can you elaborate?
O'Neal: I like Ron as a person. I care about him as a person. I don't think there's any bad feelings between us, but he understands my position. I went to bat for him [last season] just like I'm going to bat for this team now. We took a vote and every player said they prefer to move on. I've got to back the team and that's something I told him. It's not just me. That's a bridge you cannot cross, when you start talking about playing with other players and playing for other teams.
Stein: No Pacer was willing to let him come back and try again one more time?
O'Neal: No.
This post makes me laugh even harder then your first one does. You start out the post by slamming my basketball knowledge by saying I believe Ron shut down Paul in the 04 playoffs, then you go on to talk about how good the Pacers were with him in 04 and that him not being there in 05 made us an average team. Nice logic, and I guess I'll throw in your favorite smiley.
How did he disrespect him? First of all, he basically wouldn't name any reason why he wanted out other then saying that he can't play in RC's system anymore. So Ron wants to leave a city that backed him through the worst suspension in NBA history, which happened to take place the same season in which the cities greatest player to ever play here retires, and this suspension is a possible direct cause to Reggie not winning a ring during his time here why? Oh, because he doesn't like the coach. That's a pretty huge burden to put on a coaches shoulders.
So why not trade him right away? Because we don't owe that to him. Our managment, and us fans have been through a lot for this guy, and he has a lot of talent. We aren't going to trade him for Olowokandi and Hassel or some bullshit like that. Trust me on that one. We'll wait as long as it takes, we're Pacers fans, we're used to waiting.
Out with the Artest era, in with the Maggette era. I hope it gets done soon.
Oh and by the way, the 5th reason why we can't bring him back is because all he would do is take away minutes from Danny Granger, who is going to be a huge part of this franchise in years to come.
You choose what I have to do if the deal doesn't get done.
About the vote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... 230-060101
Stein: Artest later rescinded his request and asked the Pacers to keep him. You responded by saying "we can never play together again" and management agreed. Can you elaborate?
O'Neal: I like Ron as a person. I care about him as a person. I don't think there's any bad feelings between us, but he understands my position. I went to bat for him [last season] just like I'm going to bat for this team now. We took a vote and every player said they prefer to move on. I've got to back the team and that's something I told him. It's not just me. That's a bridge you cannot cross, when you start talking about playing with other players and playing for other teams.
Stein: No Pacer was willing to let him come back and try again one more time?
O'Neal: No.
This post makes me laugh even harder then your first one does. You start out the post by slamming my basketball knowledge by saying I believe Ron shut down Paul in the 04 playoffs, then you go on to talk about how good the Pacers were with him in 04 and that him not being there in 05 made us an average team. Nice logic, and I guess I'll throw in your favorite smiley.
Do you even follow the Pacers? Rick Carlisle is one of the more forgiving and understanding coaches I have ever seen. And how did he disrespect him?
How did he disrespect him? First of all, he basically wouldn't name any reason why he wanted out other then saying that he can't play in RC's system anymore. So Ron wants to leave a city that backed him through the worst suspension in NBA history, which happened to take place the same season in which the cities greatest player to ever play here retires, and this suspension is a possible direct cause to Reggie not winning a ring during his time here why? Oh, because he doesn't like the coach. That's a pretty huge burden to put on a coaches shoulders.
So why not trade him right away? Because we don't owe that to him. Our managment, and us fans have been through a lot for this guy, and he has a lot of talent. We aren't going to trade him for Olowokandi and Hassel or some bullshit like that. Trust me on that one. We'll wait as long as it takes, we're Pacers fans, we're used to waiting.
Out with the Artest era, in with the Maggette era. I hope it gets done soon.
Oh and by the way, the 5th reason why we can't bring him back is because all he would do is take away minutes from Danny Granger, who is going to be a huge part of this franchise in years to come.
Last edited by Indy on Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:24 pm
The rumor mill is hot? Indy you want to know what I'm hearing? I'm hearing Corey Maggette is not being offered, neither is Ike Diogu, Rashard Lewis or Lamar Odom. It sounds to me like the Pacers realize they aren't getting very good offers and they are just pretending like they are. They want to play it cool, hoping that some team will overpay and be desperate at the trade deadline.
The team needs help now! How can you tell me this is helping the team? They just placed their second best player on the IR and he will not return, EVER. I would trade him for the best offer I can get right now because this team's season will be over by the time they get an offer they like.
The team needs help now! How can you tell me this is helping the team? They just placed their second best player on the IR and he will not return, EVER. I would trade him for the best offer I can get right now because this team's season will be over by the time they get an offer they like.
Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:50 pm
Stein: Artest later rescinded his request and asked the Pacers to keep him. You responded by saying "we can never play together again" and management agreed. Can you elaborate?
O'Neal: I like Ron as a person. I care about him as a person. I don't think there's any bad feelings between us, but he understands my position. I went to bat for him [last season] just like I'm going to bat for this team now. We took a vote and every player said they prefer to move on. I've got to back the team and that's something I told him. It's not just me. That's a bridge you cannot cross, when you start talking about playing with other players and playing for other teams.
Stein: No Pacer was willing to let him come back and try again one more time?
O'Neal: No.
Wow Jermaine O'neal said that. If that is true, like I said before, the pacers have to trade him now. But Jermaine is the catylist for demanding that theres no way he should return. I find it hard to believe someone like Stephen Jackson or Jamaal Tinsley would have such a hard time comming to grips with Ron Artest returning. It's not like he didnt come back ready to play this season, all he said was if its best for the pacers they should trade him. Stop and think about that. Re read what he said initially. Then come back to me and say that that deserves to be put on the IR for a month while they try to move him.
This post makes me laugh even harder then your first one does. You start out the post by slamming my basketball knowledge by saying I believe Ron shut down Paul in the 04 playoffs, then you go on to talk about how good the Pacers were with him in 04 and that him not being there in 05 made us an average team. Nice logic, and I guess I'll throw in your favorite smiley
Dude you started with the basketball knowledge remarks. The bottom line is they did beat the celtics and heat with artest. Artest did not shut down perice, but perice in 2004 was one of the top 5 swingmen in the league. Last years team was an overachiever. They were lucky as hell to get Boston in the first round. Had they faced any other team (new jersey and philly included) they wouldn't gone to the second round. Boston was (aside from memphis) the worst team in the playoffs last year.
So let me break it down for you so you can understand (you have a habbit of misreading posts); In 2004 Artest was a critical peice to the pacers who were 2 games away from the finals. In 2005, the Pacers barely got out of the first round. The one major difference was the absence of Ron Artest. He didnt shut down Paul Pierce, but Paul Pierce is a very good player (and was even better in 2004).
How did he disrespect him? First of all, he basically wouldn't name any reason why he wanted out other then saying that he can't play in RC's system anymore. So Ron wants to leave a city that backed him through the worst suspension in NBA history, which happened to take place the same season in which the cities greatest player to ever play here retires, and this suspension is a possible direct cause to Reggie not winning a ring during his time here why? Oh, because he doesn't like the coach. That's a pretty huge burden to put on a coaches shoulders.
It wasnt just Artest that went into the stands (it wasnt even artest or the other pacer players fault, they didnt instigate that whole thing). But you want to pin Reggies ringless career on Ron Artest? How about Reggie not being able to make a basket as allan hosuton demolsihed the pacers in game 6 in 99? Or Reggie missing key shots in games 1,4 and 6 of the 2000 finals? "oh but maybe reggie could see into the future and saw what a terrible impact ron artest would have on the pacers in 2005". Seriously, how about accepting facts and not blaming one guy for all the pacers miseries.
So why not trade him right away? Because we don't owe that to him. Our managment, and us fans have been through a lot for this guy, and he has a lot of talent. We aren't going to trade him for Olowokandi and Hassel or some bullshit like that. Trust me on that one. We'll wait as long as it takes, we're Pacers fans, we're used to waiting.
Yeah waiting for tommorow to come, which it never does. Thats the whole problem with the pacers. Its always "next time", its never the present. Thats why they continue to struggle, and thats why they havent pulled the pin on a trade to help this pacer team right now. And the Pacer organisation is just retarted. They think that they make the game? The players are what we watch and why we watch. Not the owners.
Oh and by the way, the 5th reason why we can't bring him back is because all he would do is take away minutes from Danny Granger, who is going to be a huge part of this franchise in years to come.
So what is Maggette going to do then? Oh no!! he will betray the franchise by taking minutes away from the future of the franchise who is averaging 6 points and 4 rebounds! Maybe Maggette is the reason reggie retired without a ring
Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:07 pm
I think teams will wait until closer to the trade deadline. They'll evaluate their situation and see what their prospects are for winning a championship.