fight in the palace of auburn hills

Did the English players run into the crowd and start bashing people? No. And why? Because as professional sports people they have a responsibility to set some form of example, or at least show some restraint.

No. Because they didn't get anything thrown at them, even if they did, it didn't hit them. The fan that threw the beer was a coward, he probably thought Artest didn't know who threw the beer.
hmmm... for some reason conspiracies come to mind here.... anyone seen Happy Gilmore (that movie with adam sandler as a golfer)?

Last edited by MaD_hAND1e on Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

... but in the u.s. throwing a bottle at someone is considered assault and is punishable by law. i know firsthand.

you damn liar
what next, your gonna say "I AIN'T NEVA GOIN' BACK!"

Isn't it sad that in the U.S. you can't throw a bottle at someone, but you can rig an election, or that you can't have sex in a public place, but you can legally own machine guns.

Kevin, go cry becuase the nhl is locked out.

Wow, hard fight in the Palace.
I'm so curious to see what the NBA will do with it's players and the fans if they can find them.

Oh and what is "the score" were you guys see the highlights?

the score is like espn somewhat, just in canada.. shows sports highlights and stuff like that.. that JO punch looked like it could knock down a frickin building, he almost knocked that guys head off holy jesus

man- stupid fans, stupid players.... go coaches

The coaches were the only guys trying to break them up apart from the ushers and shit...

And how would u feel to be a fan and get wasted? lol

But its not a laughing player. I'm sure those guys who threw drinks will try to sue the Pacers while the NBA bans those fans for a very very long time. The Pacers are screwed cause artest is gonna be having a lot of time off! Wallace will also be off.. i know that. Wat did Jackson do? I'm not sure but he'll be fined too and suspended...Even if JO wasnt ( i recall) in the original melee... he freaking pushed a fan over.. twice. Man- wat is this world coming to?

A lot of lawsuits coming up... and a new rivalry can we say?

But wat i hated most was this:

Know how us aussies dont have NBA unless u got foxtel. Watching the news tonight and i see artest on t.v. I'm thinking, "Yes, Australia has finally seen the light." Then it says basketbrawl.. i'm like, "F*uck off... u only air this sh*t!!!" argh!

Yeah Larry Brown is one tough S.O.B.

And how would u feel to be a fan and get wasted? lol

Serves them right. You don't throw beer or bottles at anyone and expect them not to retaliate. Somtimes you get what you deserve...

But its not a laughing player. I'm sure those guys who threw drinks will try to sue the Pacers while the NBA bans those fans for a very very long time. The Pacers are screwed cause artest is gonna be having a lot of time off! Wallace will also be off.. i know that. Wat did Jackson do? I'm not sure but he'll be fined too and suspended...Even if JO wasnt ( i recall) in the original melee... he freaking pushed a fan over.. twice. Man- wat is this world coming to?

Jermaine was standing up for his teamates. As Nick(limp) said earlier, i also hope the players association backs up the pacer fans. They can't be expected to tolerate such bullshit from the fans.

Know how us aussies dont have NBA unless u got foxtel. Watching the news tonight and i see artest on t.v. I'm thinking, "Yes, Australia has finally seen the light." Then it says basketbrawl.. i'm like, "F*uck off... u only air this sh*t!!!" argh!

What channel/show was it on?

Channel 7 news actually

i remeber two years ago, they had 5 sec of NBA footage showing the new NBA champs.. until then i havent seen any NBA until today... damn them!

BTW.. they didnt even tell me who won the freakin game!

They also showed it when Jack Nikelson cut sick at a referee during a spurs/Lakers playoff game. the coverage here stinks unless you get espn.

True...

Everyone involved should get punished.

Jackson, Artest and O'Neal should get the biggest suspensions and fines. It's only reasonably that they do. Was Artest forced to go kick ass? No, security could have handled it, but he chose and the others followed. It wasn't self defence, he could have simply moved away. He abused his power. It's like, if someone from the Navy kicks a civilians ass they are susceptible to harsher laws because of their power, in my opinion this translates to the NBA where the players are clearly stronger than any fans.

Ben Wallace should get suspended for pushing Artest no doubt but i don't know what the going rate is for incidents like this.

EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE (even the Pistons fans on this forum, if there are any real ones) would've done the same thing in Ron Artest's situation. He wasn't looking for a fight, you can see that when he backs off when Ben Wallace wants to start one

Ron wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Ben so he backs off.....but when someone obviously weaker attacks him he's quick to go brawl.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/chris_mannix/11/20/pacers.react/index.html

But once again, Ron Artest interjected himself into a play that had no bearing on the outcome of the game, fouling Wallace from behind as he went up for the lay-up. I listened to ESPN analysts last night talk about how Artest's foul wasn't of the flagrant variety, but that's hardly the point. At no time during that possession did Artest make any kind of play on the basketball. What he did was purposefully shove Wallace in the back and take a swipe with his off hand at the back of his head.

I worked in the NBA for 10 years, and one of the players I feel like I know the best is Ben Wallace, so believe me when I tell you that there is not a more gentle giant playing the game. I can recall a number of times when Wallace was placed in a situation where he or a teammate was being attacked and he chose to help diffuse the situation rather than engage in a physical confrontation.

But just a week prior to Friday night's game, Wallace had just buried his oldest brother, 61-year old Sam Wallace, making it all the more likely his emotions were riding higher than usual. Wallace is no fool. He knew Artest's intention was not to prevent a basket, but to invoke a response. If you look closely as Wallace is advancing, Artest lowers his head as if anticipating the shot that Wallace delivered to his neck. He knew what he was doing, and he got the result he wanted.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/0411/20/pistons-11169.htm

that gives more info on what happens and suggests that JO might be arrested

[img][img]http://epsilon.applepics.com/50/userfiles/419edb94c833f.gif[/img][/img]


POW!!!!!!!

Ron wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Ben so he backs off.....but when someone obviously weaker attacks him he's quick to go brawl.

That's bullshit, Artest was being sensible and didn't kick Ben's ass because that would cost him some games, but then they started throwing things at him... you don't even have to lose a brother to be aggresive enough to go after the 'fans'.

OK, reply to my dumb comments, I won't even read your opinion because you can't be objective, you're a fan of one of the teams involved. This whole discussion made me defend and like Artest and the Pacers, before this I didn't pay attention to either teams.

Man, that was a fight. I can comprehend Artest's acting, beacuse fans are there to watch the game, not to get involved in it. Artest just did a regular foul on Ben Wallace, he maybe could get a technical, but Wallace surely overreacted. He is the wire-puller in today's fight. But then, such an impudence, a Pistons fan gets really mad and throws that beer in Artest face. I mean, that can not be for real. I would kill him, forgetting all punishments that I could get afterwards for that. Fans should watch, not act, and so he deserves his punches from Artest, and later also from Jackson.

Jackson and O'Neal did what they had to do. When an huge amount of fans get mad at players, teammates have to fight back. O'Neal's last punch was great. He hit him right in the face, this fat hobo. I think Ben Wallace should be punished, and the whole Pistons team. Because the team has to stand for what the fans do.

P.S.: I saw it with ESPN Motion on ESPN.com. I will get ESPN for TV only in a week. What a pitty I missed that.

50 replies in just over an hour.

I just saw the clip of the chair being thrown into the middle of the crowd. WTF!!!

Where? I wanna see it, too.

That's bullshit, Artest was being sensible and didn't kick Ben's ass because that would cost him some games

1. Everyone knows that Artest doesn't stand a chance againt Wallace
2. 'kicking' Ben's ass would cost him some games? as opposed to assaulting fans which most likely has harsher penalties

I won't even read your opinion because you can't be objective, you're a fan of one of the teams involved. This whole discussion made me defend and like Artest and the Pacers

contradiction

Fans should watch, not act, and so he deserves his punches from Artest, and later also from Jackson.

and players should play and not fight.....they should stay on court, not off it.

O'Neal's last punch was great. He hit him right in the face, this fat hobo

O'Neal proved just how much of a vagina he is, hope he doesn't drop the soap!

I think Ben Wallace should be punished, and the whole Pistons team. Because the team has to stand for what the fans do.

You can’t suspend the whole team? That would mean forfeited games for one, secondly that equals lost profits and NBA won’t let that happen. By your logic, the Lakers should have been suspended because their fans rioted, after winning a championship, where they set a police car on fire. It also makes no sense to suspend all the players because not everyone was involved. Half, if not more of the Pacers would be suspended as well.

Last time I will post in this thread, because I know it isn't possible for everyone to have the same opinion.

1. Everyone knows that Artest doesn't stand a chance againt Wallace
2. 'kicking' Ben's ass would cost him some games? as opposed to assaulting fans which most likely has harsher penalties

1. No comment (we could argue forever about this)
2. Just read my post, hitting the fans had better reasons than going after Ben.

contradiction

No it isn't, this whole discussion made me like Artest and the Pacers, before this thing happened I didn't pay attention to them. But now that you mention it, punks like you can make me like anything not-Piston.

CambyMan Vol 3 You're a fuckin joke !! Quit hating on Detroit because of a incident that could have happened anywhere. There is a unwritten rule of going in the stands after fans. Stephen Jackson was the biggest idiot.
He wasn't trying to break up fights, he was cheap shotting people. I don't
hear anyone complaining about the lady that got killed in Boston after they
won the ALCS? No, because it happened in the Detroit area, it gets major press. Wallace overeacted probably when he went after Artest. Which is very out of character for Big Ben. He is whats the NBA is suppose to be about. CambyMan, I see right through you. Lost in the shuffle was Jermaine O'Neal. He sucker punched a fan who was standing on the sideline. All I can say is Detroit goes to Indy on Christmas Day. Stay Tuned.

Calling eachother "punks" and "fuckin jokes" isn't contributing a whole lot to the discussion.

In all seriousness, I want to see how the two teams move on from this incident. Let's see who it affects more.

In this thing, I support Detroit though.

How come everybody is saying that the coaches and Rasheed Wallace are the heros? Did anyone even notice Eddie Gill in that mob? Eddie Gill is the hero of yesterdays brawl.

When Jackson went into the stands Eddie ran after him and was holding him back despite taking shots to the head, and he then tackled Jackson to hold him down.

Say what you want about Artest, not many people in the world would back down from what that fan did, including myself. As I said earlier, from what I saw suspensions should go out to:

Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Jermaine O'neal, Stephen Jackson, Elden Campbell, Chauncey Billups, Carlos Delfino, David Harrison.

I might have missed somebody but these should all be definite suspensions.

And as for the Artest backing down because Wallace would kick his ass. Nobody should be saying who can kick whos ass because nobody knows, Wallace is bigger but who knows what Artest could do. The bottom line is Artest was the bigger man at the start but then it just got out of hand.

Everyone involved should get punished.

Rasheed Wallace should get punished for trying to stop the fight? Fred Jones should be punished for being hit by some obese black guy? Rip Hamilton should be punished for trying to calm things down? Eddie Gill should be suspended for holding back Stephen Jackson? OK, if you say so.

Ben Wallace should get suspended for pushing Artest no doubt but i don't know what the going rate is for incidents like this.

Ben Wallace CAUSED the whole thing. Sure, Artest probably shouldn't of made a stupid foul on Wallace (though, an argument could be made that Artest was fouling a 41% free throw shooter instead of giving up an easy two) but Wallace overreacted. Wallace's shove/push to the throat could be more damaging to a push/shove to any other part of the body, even moreso considering Wallace's strength. Even after Artest backed off (he may of been scared but he was right to back off), Wallace tried to get to him but he was restrained. Wallace has dished out much worst fouls than that one yet he acts like the foul was one of the worst in history.

Ron wouldn't be able to hold a candle to Ben so he backs off.....but when someone obviously weaker attacks him he's quick to go brawl.

...have you not noticed for the past year or so that he has been MUCH calmer and backed away from situations? He could of backed off to anyone, it just happens to be that he backed down from Ben Wallace.

Here we go...

a person buying a ticket to a professional event is no more above the law then the professional athelete himself. i don't know what the laws are in england or spain, but in the u.s. throwing a bottle at someone is considered assault and is punishable by law.

That's interesting, because the last time I checked punching the shit out of someone is also considered assault and is punishable by law. I haven't had too much first hand experience in that though.

who cares how big or small the person is that's attacking you?

It does make a difference when the fan is some moderately overweight guy who is of normal structure. Up against either a 6'11 or a 6'7 athlete, who does weights every single day. It's like saying it'd be an even, or fair fight putting Mike Tyson up against someone with anorexia. Size does matter.

if someone's stupid enough to throw beer at someone, they are responsible for their own actions and the repurcussions. it's obvious the fans that threw the beer/bottles/etc would never do that if they were face to face w/any of the 3 pacers that punched the fans

They're responsible for their own actions, but the repurcussions were something completely unexpected. I know everyone's saying "oh well I'd do the same thing" etc etc, but there's a huge difference between someone throwing a bottle at you out in the street or whatever, and throwing a bottle in a sports stadium with tv camera's everywhere. They should be held responsible, but so should the players.

No. Because they didn't get anything thrown at them, even if they did, it didn't hit them.

Right, so you're saying if someone was sitting in the crowd screaming to Ron Artest that he's a "dirty nigger" or something he wouldn't have snapped? Give me a break.

As far as things not hitting people goes, soccer players get hit all the time. Only recently a referee got hit by a missile being thrown from the crowd.

that JO punch looked like it could knock down a frickin building, he almost knocked that guys head off holy jesus

who cares how big or small the person is that's attacking you?

You mean besides the guy who's got to take a punch from a 6'11 athlete?

Serves them right. You don't throw beer or bottles at anyone and expect them not to retaliate. Somtimes you get what you deserve...

I think that's subject to opinion. Not everyone would resort to violence straight off if something like that happened.

Jermaine was standing up for his teamates.

From what I've read in this thread, Jermaine didn't seem to be provoked in any way. He just decked the guy.

Was Artest forced to go kick ass? No, security could have handled it, but he chose and the others followed. It wasn't self defence, he could have simply moved away.

Absolutely. It's not as if his life was in danger from some 30 year old fat bloke who threw a water bottle at him. Either go back into the locker rooms or move to another place on the court. Simple. Running into the crowd and bashing someone should've probably been the last option to resort to.

OK, reply to my dumb comments, I won't even read your opinion because you can't be objective

Lol, this from the guy who put "ARTEST FAN 4 LIFE" in big bold letters after one of his posts.

O'Neal's last punch was great. He hit him right in the face, this fat hobo. I think Ben Wallace should be punished, and the whole Pistons team. Because the team has to stand for what the fans do.

Why? The team doesn't control the fans. By that reasoning, all Indiana fans should be punished aswell if any suspensions are handed down to their players. It doesn't work like that, and no, O'Neal's last punch was not "great". I don't know how many times you've been punched in the face, but it can do some serious damage to a person (David Hookes?) and with Jermaine being so big/strong it's highly likely that could've happened.

CambyMan Vol 3 You're a fuckin joke !! Quit hating on Detroit because of a incident that could have happened anywhere. There is a unwritten rule of going in the stands after fans.

Good one. We have one of the better discussions on this forum for a long time and you start throwing insults. Shut up.

Wallace is bigger but who knows what Artest could do.

I guess he does have that medical condition... what's it called again? Oh, being insane.

Anyways, if we can avoid the cheap shots at each other this could turn out to be a pretty good debate... too bad it's not on General Talk

Just heard it on the news:

Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Jermaine O'neal and Stephen Jackson suspended indefinitley.

Wow.. guess they'll come up with something more specific when they can be bothered.