Jamal Crawford to the Knicks

[Matthew]

Man, you can't be totally serious about stephon. A large contract he has, but a team cancer and underachiever? By who's standards exactly? He has averaged over 20 ppg and 8 apg for his career, and he is an underachiever? The only fault on his career was wanting to be traded away from the twolves, but tmac has done the same thing, does that qualify him as an underachiever also?

Allan Houston also has a ridiculous contract, but pair him with stephon and you have the best backcourt in the nba imo. Tim Thomas may have low career numbers, but I have a feeling we havent seen anywhere near his potential. He can get better, and I think he will. KVH was no answer.

Shandon Anderson is way overpaid, im not going to argue that. But he does play hard and is a good player of the bench. Jamal Crawford is going to have to come off the bench with him.. but this team is the deepest guard rotation in the nba when they are all healthy. Jerome Williams is also overpaid, but the knicks are way over the cap as is, so his contract isnt doing much harm. If they get Dampier, their rotations would be helped out greatly.
Starters:
c. dampier
pf. kurt thomas
sf. tim thomas
sg. houston
pg. marbury
dampier and kurt thomas rebound and defend well, and are sizable in the east. Marbury and houston will score alot when healthy, and this might just be the right situation for tim thomas.
bench:
nazri
sweetny
penny
anderson
crawford
not all that bad... sure they are waaay over the cap. but to say they are suddenly bad becuase of a deal to jamal crawford is laughable. who knows who might become expendable in the future.. maybe webber will be and new york will be able to get him like miami stole shaq.. then boom, they are contendors. right now they have some peices... and they are about one peice away from being a contender...

[-BHZMAFIA-]

The thing is, the Warriors said in an article that the Knicks have nothing they want which will make it pretty hard to work out a sign and trade even though Dampier may want to go to the Knicks. So I don't think Dampier will go to the Knicks.

[Matt]

they maybe 1 piece away but they'll have to give up a piece too. I don't see the Knicks real threatening....frontcourt is too weak to do anything.

[Andrew]

Well...

My feelings remain unchanged: at least the Bulls didn't just watch Crawford sign an offer sheet and let him walk, but that's about the best I can say about the deal from Chicago's point of view. I believe there's some contracts in that deal that will expire at the end of the year, but cap space won't accomplish much.

Better than nothing, but it's a shame to see another good player leave in exchange for players who won't be contributing long-term (if at all).

[Eugene]

In response, first to Cambyman,

Look, I like Stephon Marbury as much as the next guy. I really do. But it's frustrating to see him dominate the ball so much. And the eight assists is a deceptive number--all that indicates is that he's a talented passer, and he is, Marbury does hold the ball for much of the offense. Jason Kidd puts up the same assist numbers, but he doesn't have the ball nearly as much as Marbury does.

But he did put together a great season in Phoenix, when they made the playoffs, before they pressed the panic button and traded him away. So, he is a good player, and I do believe that he gives the Knicks a fighting chance every game. But he's not the pass-first team leader that 1. he can be, and 2. he needs to be on the Knicks.

But I'm not placing all the blame on Marbury. He did well for the Knicks, and he did a lot of things for them. I remember the 14, 15 assist games he had for them when they had their 5 game winning streak. Which is why I'm giving him one more chance to turn it around.

Isn't it odd though, a guard as talented as Marbury has played on 4 different teams in his eight years? That should tell you something.

I totally agree with you about Tim Thomas. His career numbers aren't great and we haven't seen nearly the potential that he has. But he's been in the league for eight seasons. So why haven't we seen all the potential yet?

I've already said, this is a talented team that will get 4 to 6 seed and make to the second round of the playoffs. But even if they get Dampier (and by the way, if they get Dampier, they'll have to do a sign and trade, so they won't be able to keep Kurt Thomas), they're still not a championship team. Unless Marbury becomes the pass-first-take-over-in-crunch-time-Isiah-Thomas-type player that I know he could be (and he disappeared in the playoffs last year in the sweep), and unless the entire roster plays up to their abilities, they'll be in that range for a very long time, and won't get any better.

And the Knicks have to many bad contracts and not enough trade assets to add another piece that'll push them over the top. And they're good enough to miss the lottery for quite some time, so...

If all you want to see is the Knicks having a longer season and longer postseason, then this is a good team. But the goal of every organization and by representation the GM, should be to win the championship. And this team is not there yet.

All the best,

Eugene

[RedTorro]

Plain and simple, the Bulls get raped in a trade yet again. You got an over the hill center who's about 5 or 6 years removed from his prime and a bunch of scrubs. My patience is wearing thin with the Bulls these days. I am tired of losing. My alligiance to this team is really getting tested.

[FanOfAll]

Look, I like Stephon Marbury as much as the next guy. I really do. But it's frustrating to see him dominate the ball so much. And the eight assists is a deceptive number--all that indicates is that he's a talented passer, and he is, Marbury does hold the ball for much of the offense. Jason Kidd puts up the same assist numbers, but he doesn't have the ball nearly as much as Marbury does.

I agree. Marbury does hold onto the ball a lot.

But he did put together a great season in Phoenix, when they made the playoffs, before they pressed the panic button and traded him away. So, he is a good player, and I do believe that he gives the Knicks a fighting chance every game. But he's not the pass-first team leader that 1. he can be, and 2. he needs to be on the Knicks.

Panic button? They clearly ripped the Knicks off.

Plain and simple, the Bulls get raped in a trade yet again. You got an over the hill center who's about 5 or 6 years removed from his prime and a bunch of scrubs. My patience is wearing thin with the Bulls these days. I am tired of losing. My alligiance to this team is really getting tested.

First of all, Frankie Williams isn't a scrub. Secondly, they didn't make this trade to have these guys play 40 mpg. This is mostly a cap move. What could've been worse is JC signs somewhere (like DEN before they got KMart) for more money than the Bulls could match. Trby is likely to be cut, Deke either wants out or will only workin practice, and Harrington won't play much but will be the Bulls' only other post scorer besides Curry. Frankie Williams is the best piece in this trade, besides the cap space next year. He's unselfish, smart, good pg who can hit the open jumper. Just not very quick. Remember, the contracts of Curry and Chandler expire next year.

[Matthew]

Marbury did dominate the ball alot, but he is a playmaker. Who would you rather have the ball in his hands? Marbury, or Nazri Mohammed? It's not like there is a Shaq on this ballclub. Allan Houston was injured alot of last season. He averaged 9.3 assists when he was a knick... as for the 4 teams in 8 years... so what? Pippen played in 3 teams in 3 years, webber went from golden state, to washington, to sacramento in a matter of 4 or 5 years. Some players get traded alot.

I've already said, this is a talented team that will get 4 to 6 seed and make to the second round of the playoffs. But even if they get Dampier (and by the way, if they get Dampier, they'll have to do a sign and trade, so they won't be able to keep Kurt Thomas), they're still not a championship team. Unless Marbury becomes the pass-first-take-over-in-crunch-time-Isiah-Thomas-type player that I know he could be (and he disappeared in the playoffs last year in the sweep), and unless the entire roster plays up to their abilities, they'll be in that range for a very long time, and won't get any better.

They werent going to get better with the team they had either. Their biggest mistakes was trading ewing and houstons contract. But before Marbury, they were really stuck... now they are at least in the playoffs and are one piece away imo.

If all you want to see is the Knicks having a longer season and longer postseason, then this is a good team. But the goal of every organization and by representation the GM, should be to win the championship. And this team is not there yet.

But they are closer to it then without Marbury. At least he gives us some hope.. and who knows? Maybe Allan Houston can be healthy alongside marbury. Maybe Tim Thomas can stand up and play like we know he can. Maybe Vin Baker will wake upto himself. Maybe Dampier and Crawford will be great role players. It's not impossible.

Panic button? They clearly ripped the Knicks off.

Yep they sure did. They signed Steve Nash and quentin richardson with the room they cleared for marbury. Richardson isn't better than Joe Johnson, and Nash is no where near Marbury. The only positive I can sorta see is the Suns realise they will have to give amare the max contract when he is up for an extension, and Suns management wouldn't like to pay Marbury, Marion and Stoudamire that much. But if they kept those 3 together, along with Joe Johnson, they could be a top 4 team in the west right now. Instead, I can't see them making the playoffs... what a rip off

[Sauru]

lol, it seems the knicks are trying to stack thier team with proven losers. these guys cant win anything. haveing crawford and marbury together on the court at the same time will be hell. whichever one the inbounder gives the ball to is probably gonna shoot the ball. with these 2 in the back court i hope thier post players are good offensive rebounders, cause thats the only way they will be getting the ball.

[Andrew]

him and Marbury in the same backcourt doesn't look good....oooh, I forgot Houston...so is Crawford an expensive 6th man?

I'd completely forgotten about Houston as well. Unless he's out or Marbury is out or they have some strange notion that Houston can play small forward, Crawford will be one of the league's most expensive sixth men.

[Riot]

Isiah wants VC too.

Smart plan Isiah get Marbury-Crawford-Houston-Tim Thomas-Carter. Very smart.


Who would he give? Anyone know?

[Matthew]

Anyone not named stephon Marbury

[Amphatoast]

tim thomas, penny, and anderson are some of the trading parts to a VC2NY trade which won't happen. Pretty much Tim Thomas would be the one to go though, best out of all the ones I listed and contract is close to carter's. Plus they both play SF. Obviously others would be involved but these are the expensive pieces to such a deal.

[Matt]

ive said it before and i'll say it again. IT is a bad GM

[Matthew]

Please tell me Matt, why do you think Isiah Thomas is a bad gm...

[Sauru]

i can tell you why he is a bad GM.

he is overpaying for proven losers. these guys have done nothing. atleast crawford is young the rest of them have been around long enough to do something and didnt. for gods sake marbury had KG and couldnt win what makes people think he can win with these knicks? it dont matter who plays with marbury anyway, they wont get the ball.

[Eugene]

Would I rather have Marbury or Mohammed have the ball? That's not a fair question. Of course I'd rather have Marbury with the ball. But the point is the keep the ball moving between all five players--yes, Nazr Mohammed, too--so that the defense has to focus on all five players as a scoring threat, not just one.

(Here's one thing about basketball that almost everyone takes for granted: the offense always, always, has the advantage over the defense. There's just too much space on the court, the ball moves too quickly for the defense to be successful all the time. That's why basketball is the highest scoring team game by far. So, if the offensive team moves the ball like they're supposed to, like the Pistons did in the Finals, if doesn't matter if they miss a few shots, player movement and ball movement will result in higher scores...)

... and Marbury hasn't shown that ability yet. And there's a reason why players get traded (And by the way, Pippen played on three teams in 17 seasons and he never got traded, just signed as a free agent and that matters). I call it the Keith Van Horn Effect, where a player who has always put up good to decent numbers get traded because they wore out their welcome. For a brief span on their new team, they play very well, as if the change of scenery was all they needed. But the player got traded for a reason, and the same symptoms show up again (no intensity (i.e. Keith Van Horn) or too selfish, takes bad shots (like Antoine Walker, who just got traded, for the same reasons that got him kicked out of Boston in the first place)). If Marbury doesn't get it right this time, then he has the opportunity to redefine the KVH Effect for all time. I hope he does get it right this time, and doesn't redefine the KVH Effect.

Yes, with Marbury and the new players, they are a good playoff team, with maybe one piece away. But they are one good piece away, and the situation they're in right now, they have neither the cap space nor the trade assets to add that one piece.

And maybe Allan Houston will be fully healed. And maybe Marbury will start playing like a true point. And maybe Tim Thomas will get his head on straight. And maybe Dampier and Crawford will play hard. And maybe (and this one's a big maybe) Vin Baker won't drink his way out of a career (although he's done that twice already). But that's a lot of maybe's and history's against the Knicks, so...

I live in New York, so I'd like to see them do well. But the series of frustrating trades and signings... I mean, really. There's a difference between being cynical and realistic, and between optimistic and stupid. I'm probably closer to the cynical/realistic side on this one.

All the best,

Eugene

[Amphatoast]

ive said it before and i'll say it again. IT is a bad GM

Huge upgrade over Scott Layden who was the one responsible for Houston $100million contract.

i can tell you why he is a bad GM.

he is overpaying for proven losers. these guys have done nothing. atleast crawford is young the rest of them have been around long enough to do something and didnt. for gods sake marbury had KG and couldnt win what makes people think he can win with these knicks? it dont matter who plays with marbury anyway, they wont get the ball.

when did Marbury play with KG? Like 6 or 7 years ago? Weren't they like rookies or 2nd year players? They didn't have the experience then, KG back then isn't the KG now.
Whos a proven loser he has overpaid? Marbury hasn't had a full season and full team tos how what he can do. He helped Pheniox to the playoffs a couple seasons ago and provided the Spurs some good competition.

Besides look at the starting line up and team the Knicks brought in last year. Don't you think the team they have now is much better than that old team? Marbury instead of eisely, Nazr/dampier instead of Mutumbo..only Tim Thomas and Van Horn you can argue about since both players in my opinion are the same..each a little stronger in a area or 2
Even the bench is better..even though penny is overpaid he is still a decent player. Besides, when you talk about the Knicks, NEVER EVER BRING SALARY INTO IT!!. They could be 100million over the salary cap and it doesn't matter..
Until Houston's contract is up, salary isn't important because his deal is really high and Shandon Anderson deal is up the same year too. Once those 2 are off the books then we can think about salary cap

[Andrew]

(And by the way, Pippen played on three teams in 17 seasons and he never got traded, just signed as a free agent and that matters).

Actually, he was traded twice (three times if you include draft day, 1987), though the trade to Houston was a sign-and-trade to give him the payday he had earned and the trade to Portland was at his request.

[Riot]

do you look this stuff up or do you just happen to know all this stuff?

[Eugene]

Salary cap does matter. It always matters. Jimmy Dolan is now well above the cap and the money has to come from somewhere, whether it's ticket prices (which I heard were already ridiculous), or cable bills, or whatever else merchadising. And even beyond that, being over the salary cap means you only have the mid-level exception to offer to free agents.

And though I'm not certain, with Penny, Marbury, Crawford, Williams all getting major contracts, I don't even know if they'll be under even when Houston and Anderson come off the books.

Thomas just traded away most of his expiring contracts, and while they wouldn't have gotten the Knicks under by any means, they were the last available trade assets for the Knicks, and got Jamal Crawford in return, who may or may not be a decent player.

So, we can't trade, we can't sign marquee free agents, so we can't add any more players: we can't add that one more piece until at least 4 to 5 seasons from now.

So, yes, salary cap does matter, because added to all that, I haven't even mentioned the luxury tax. The point is, the Knicks have a championship payroll, but not a championship team.

(Oh, and for those of you who still think there's a chance Vince Carter's coming to New York... he's not.)

Unlike the Bulls, however, who will have cleared 10 million in cap space or something to that effect (I don't really pay attention to numbers, but I know it means they'll be a player in free agency next year, which means... actually not a whole lot next year, but in 06, they'll be playing for Yao, Stoudamire, Prince, Butler if they don't get resigned).

But at least they have the money to add a quality free agent or two, and I'm thinking John Paxon, if he doesn't get marquee guys, are going to get character, team guys, because that's the kind of player he was.

Also by trading Jamal Crawford, he clears playing time for his rookies. He drafted Ben Gordon, Luol Deng, and Chris Duhon. And since I didn't post anything following the draft, here's my take on them.

In Ben Gordon, you have a pass first combo guard who can score. If that sounds a little like Dwayne Wade, well, it should. While Gordon may not be the athlete Wade is (and if that's the case, Gordon loses only by a fraction--he has a 38 inch vert, and benches 300 pounds), he's a better shooter from distance, and at least as good a decision maker. He's a strong defender, something most people overlook. And in case you've forgotten, he was the second best player on the National Championship Huskies. Now, winning means something. Coming from a winning tradition means something. He's an experienced player coming from a great program, coached by one of the best coaches in the world.

Then you have Luol Deng, who looks like he was built in a lab somewhere. He looks like Frankenstein, doesn't he? But even though he may look awkward, he has those long arms and a deceptively quick first step. He's a good passer, and decent shooter. He can rebound. He can defend (although he'll have trouble because he lacks lateral quickness, he has the arms to make up for it). He can be like the poor man's Andrei Kirilenko. And he also comes from a great tradition with a great coach (and don't you believe any of that Duke-curse garbage. No such thing).

Finally, someone everyone seems to forget, Chris Duhon. If you don't remember, when Jay Williams was still in school, Duhon was considered the second best point guard only after his teammate. Duhon is quick in the open court, has great vision, great leadership, great decision-making, and he is a defensive hound... people tend to neglect how good he is because he's not putting up eye-catching numbers, but Duhon has made big time plays for one of the best teams in the country time and time again. If you don't think he's better than Frank Williams, you're out of your mind. There, I said it.

So, John Paxson just drafted three sure things who are ready to play now. Jamal Crawford wasn't the type of character guy he wanted. And character matters. Team attitude matters. The Bulls have a young nucleus to build around (if Tyson Chandler's back holds up, I think he'll be a great asset in the middle defensively) and several veterans in Davis and Mutombo who'll "tutor" Curry and Chandler (yeah, okay... you know Paxson is going to drop Curry as soon as West agrees to the Wells/Swift package), and overall, you have a team that will, under Herr Skiles, play hard, and play together.

I don't know. Call me crazy, but I think this just might be the year.

All the best,

Eugene

[Matt]

heres why Thomas is a bad GM

he got Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford....the backcourt from hell (because we all know Houston will be injured). Not enough ball to go around. Craword is getting $55/7 (?)....that's a lot for an inconsistent player thant doesn't play defense and shoots 40%. All Thomas did was get the team to the playoffs and they seem stuck there.....congratulations your mediocre. Instead of getting a TEAM IT is stacking up on individuals. The froncourt is weak to say the least.

IT should hire a coach that has enough balls to get Marbury to change his game to suit the team. Only then will the team be any good.

[FanOfAll]

Panic button? They clearly ripped the Knicks off.

Yep they sure did. They signed Steve Nash and quentin richardson with the room they cleared for marbury. Richardson isn't better than Joe Johnson, and Nash is no where near Marbury. The only positive I can sorta see is the Suns realise they will have to give amare the max contract when he is up for an extension, and Suns management wouldn't like to pay Marbury, Marion and Stoudamire that much. But if they kept those 3 together, along with Joe Johnson, they could be a top 4 team in the west right now. Instead, I can't see them making the playoffs... what a rip off

Nash IMO will be a much better fit with the young team than Marbury even could be. Nash makes that up tempo game even better and instead of having another scorer in there, you have a playmaker. If you've seen Team USA play this year when Marbury is on the court, you'll see why I think Nash will be better than Marbury ever could.

No Q isn't better than JJ, but he's a good player. He's more depth. Marion or JJ can be used to acquire a big man. If not, then I'm pretty Suns are very happy with Nash/Barbosa/Q/JJ/Marion/Zarko/Jacobsen at the 1,2, and 3. You also fail to forget that the Suns acquired two young Euros, in Maciej Lampe and Milos Vujanic, with both worth at least a future first. Vujanic is one of the top prospects in Europe and for good reason. Lampe is a huge project, but he was projected top 10-15 in the 2003 draft before his buyout got in the way. Not to mention the Suns received a 2004 1st rounder and a future first. If you don't call that ripping a team off, I don't know what is.

Would you rather have a core of Marbury (who you even admitted is a ball-dominater and another reason why I feel Nash is a much better fit)/Marion/Amare/JJ/Barbosa (+ youngster in Zarko) or a core of Nash/Marion/Amare/JJ/Barbosa/Q, plus youngsters in Zarko, Lampe, Vujanic, 2 1st rounders next year, and a future first somewhere down the line? I think it's a no-brainer here.

Isiah wants VC too.

Smart plan Isiah get Marbury-Crawford-Houston-Tim Thomas-Carter. Very smart.


Who would he give? Anyone know?

Anyone not named stephon Marbury

Lol, there's not much to give then (seriously, TT has a huge contract, is a proven underachiever and not exactly someone Babcock would trade for)! But seriously, I hear with the acquisition of JC, IT has gotten rid of the untouchable tag on Marbury, although not to the point where Marbury is on the block. The two most loud rumors I've heard lately are Vince for Marbury and Vince for Allen. Not saying they're true though.

Besides look at the starting line up and team the Knicks brought in last year. Don't you think the team they have now is much better than that old team? Marbury instead of eisely, Nazr/dampier instead of Mutumbo..only Tim Thomas and Van Horn you can argue about since both players in my opinion are the same..each a little stronger in a area or 2
Even the bench is better..even though penny is overpaid he is still a decent player. Besides, when you talk about the Knicks, NEVER EVER BRING SALARY INTO IT!!. They could be 100million over the salary cap and it doesn't matter..
Until Houston's contract is up, salary isn't important because his deal is really high and Shandon Anderson deal is up the same year too. Once those 2 are off the books then we can think about salary cap

Of course, if you look at the roster, you'd pick the team the Knicks have now. However, when I compare the roster, the salaries, the prospects, the draft picks, I would take the team before the Marbury trade. Why? 1) Payroll, that's pretty self-explanatory when the NBA cap is at 43 million and you're over 100 million. 2) Prospects. Whether they develop or not, you're looking into the future. Sorry, I don't see it for either team, thus why I would keep the prospects so maybe the Knicks can compete for the future. You're giving up as I said earlier, at least 4 1st rounders. So what are the Knicks left with? No future (no prospects except for Sweetney, no draft picks, no salary, except for the MLE). They're a win right now team. Do you really think they're going to win it all with Marbury/Crawford/Houston (see a problem there already)/TT (another problem)/KT (now that's a stud)/Nazr/and Mike Sweetney, not to mention Lenny as coach?

Please tell me Matt, why do you think Isiah Thomas is a bad gm...

My name isn't Matt, but I'll join in.
I've already mentioned the Marbury trade. That's a big one. I thought he made a terrible move by trading KVH and Doleac for TT and Nazr. I like Nazr, but Doleac was Marbury's best pick and pop partner, with KT a close second. Doleac isn't the best player, but for a good 15-20 minutes if utilized correctly, there's a big problem for the defense. Secondly, Marbury needs spot up shooters to pass to off the pick and roll. KVH was one. TT is not. Marbury getting a pick from Doleac can either pass to Doleac for an 18 footer, take the jumper, or drive the basket, where he has a few options, among them go for the layup, or drive-and-dish. What did Nazr do? Upgrade the defense and rebounding, take away some offense. What did TT do? Add to the fast break, another creator, but his defense is as bad as KVH's and Marbury no longer has that solid spot up shooter to pass to. However, if he never traded for Marbury, I wouldn't have a problem with this trade.
Finally, I'm not sold on this JC trade. Again, if Marbury was never acquired, this trade wouldn't be all that bad. For starters, there go your expiring contracts. Ok, you're in the biggest market for pratically anything, but that still doesn't justify being 50 million over the cap. Heck, in 3 years, they'll be over the cap even with only 6 players under guaranteed contract. Is some of this IT's fault? No. He didn't sign Anderson or Houston, but is it his job to lower that salary figure? Yes. If I'm Dolan, I would be losing sleep over the player salaries when compared to the quality. Secondly, I don't see a Marbury/JC or JC/Houston backcourt working, especially not with Tim Thomas there. I'll reiterate that Marbury needs spot up shooters to pass to, especially off the pick and roll. JC and TT are at their best creating their own shots (while forgetting about teammates). They're mediocre spot-up shooters. I can also see a major problem with sharing the ball, knowing the rep of the players.
Did I mention IT is going after Dampier, who wants 9 million a year for underachieving majorly in his career until his career year? There's a reason the Warriors and other teams are extremely reluctant in giving him a 9 mil/year contract.

Unlike the Bulls, however, who will have cleared 10 million in cap space or something to that effect (I don't really pay attention to numbers, but I know it means they'll be a player in free agency next year, which means... actually not a whole lot next year, but in 06, they'll be playing for Yao, Stoudamire, Prince, Butler if they don't get resigned).

Just from the trade, it's almost 10 million, depending on if they pick up Frankie Williams' option next year (which I'm almost positive they will, if not, that's a bit more than 10). Don't forget Pippen's 5+ mil contract will come off the books, as well as Jeffries' (another team option, they might cut him). However, I'm pretty most of that cap space will be used to re-sign Curry and/or Chandler.

In Ben Gordon, you have a pass first combo guard who can score. If that sounds a little like Dwayne Wade, well, it should. While Gordon may not be the athlete Wade is (and if that's the case, Gordon loses only by a fraction--he has a 38 inch vert, and benches 300 pounds), he's a better shooter from distance, and at least as good a decision maker. He's a strong defender, something most people overlook. And in case you've forgotten, he was the second best player on the National Championship Huskies. Now, winning means something. Coming from a winning tradition means something. He's an experienced player coming from a great program, coached by one of the best coaches in the world.

I think Gordon can match up Wade in terms of athletic abilities. Both are total freaks.

Finally, someone everyone seems to forget, Chris Duhon. If you don't remember, when Jay Williams was still in school, Duhon was considered the second best point guard only after his teammate. Duhon is quick in the open court, has great vision, great leadership, great decision-making, and he is a defensive hound... people tend to neglect how good he is because he's not putting up eye-catching numbers, but Duhon has made big time plays for one of the best teams in the country time and time again. If you don't think he's better than Frank Williams, you're out of your mind. There, I said it.

Actually, I think Williams is better than Duhon. No offense, but I think you're crazy to think otherwise. Williams doesn't have the same leadership, vision or quickness, but he's not only proven in the NBA but he's a better overall PG IMO (defense they're pretty equal, I want to see Duhon guard some NBA points first and Williams is a good defender as well). Also, Frankie has by FAR better shot. Duhon needs a year or so to work on that shot. In fact, I think it's 50/50 that Duhon makes the team. They have Pargo who played well last season and in the SL's (when compared to Duhon) and Williams. I heard a rumor recently that Duhon is going to Europe.

So, John Paxson just drafted three sure things who are ready to play now. Jamal Crawford wasn't the type of character guy he wanted. And character matters. Team attitude matters. The Bulls have a young nucleus to build around (if Tyson Chandler's back holds up, I think he'll be a great asset in the middle defensively) and several veterans in Davis and Mutombo who'll "tutor" Curry and Chandler (yeah, okay... you know Paxson is going to drop Curry as soon as West agrees to the Wells/Swift package), and overall, you have a team that will, under Herr Skiles, play hard, and play together.

You'd better tell that to Curry and Chandler (well I hear Chandler is working a lot harder).
And I'm not sure if it's really West not agreeing to the Curry for Swift/Wells trade. I can see why Paxson wouldn't want Wells and his attitude/character (despite his expiring contract) and Swift to go with Chandler. Where's your post scoring now?

[Andrew]

do you look this stuff up or do you just happen to know all this stuff?

It depends on the topic. As he's one of my favourite players, I'm familiar with Pip's career moves. I sometimes have to look various facts up (specifically numbers) to double check my memory.

[Riot]

good, because if you knew ALL of that stuff...man, that would be weird.