well, the cavs are out, where will LeBron be in 2011?

[imefimef]

So you think Lebron didn't have complete control over Mike Brown? And when he mentioned his "team" he was talking about his inner circle, not the Cavs.

It's not that he didn't have control, i just don't think he was on board with his practices, i think he was mad about some matchup problems(KG and Antwain, i mean KG got the ball down low and scored at like 12 times in a row and Mike Brown did switch them up). And yes by his team i don't mean the Cavs, he means his inner circle and managers and all that.

He did that shit on purpose like Kobe did in 06(Lakers were up 3-0 against Suns but it went to game 7 and Kobe took only 3 shots in the last 2 quarters, Then Kobe got Gasol).

Ignoring, of course, that he put up 50 in game six trying to get the Lakers over the line, and was foiled by nothing more than a Tim Thomas three.

.Thats the whole point, in the last game he scored 24 in the first half, but theyb were still down by a fucking lot so he gave up on them.

I guess the majority of us will remain skeptical.

Actually, just like everyone else, i'm just saying, these are the reasons why i think he will stay, if you see where im coming from you'll agree with me.
Plus as far as money goes, Cavs can pay him the most so thats another reason.

[benji]

This really deserved a thread on its own instead of going in the other LeBron-stakes thread?

So in other words, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" right?

LeBron isn't staying in Cleveland because the team is capped out, has no serious assets to trade, no centers at all and the city's only saving grace is that it's better than Detroit. LeBron could have had Mike Brown fired anytime he wanted. No, he's going to Dallas in a sign-and-trade for Dampier because he wants a title more than he wants an extra $8 million. And it will only be a two or three year contract. You want proof? Because I said so. Same as yours.

[The X]

So Chris Jent is the answer to the Lebron puzzle? Seems unlikely but we shall see. I expect Lebron to stay with Cavs when all is said & done.

[Andrew]

Merged with the original thread, as we really don't need two.

As far as LeBron remaining in Cleveland, I'd agree it's certainly plausible and probably more likely than a lot of people would expect. That said, we'll be kept guessing until July.

[benji]

Nobody tells Larry King the truth, so clearly LeBron is lying about it.

[imefimef]

This really deserved a thread on its own instead of going in the other LeBron-stakes thread?

So in other words, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" right?

Did i know there was another LeBron James thread? umm no, i had class in 3 and a half mins so i quickly wrote something up and posted it up, sorry i didn't have time to browse the forum in it's entirety for another similar topic, and technically i would get wayyyy more people to see this if i posted it under a thread that already has a bunch of views so yeah.

But for the tard who said LeBron is one dimensional. How can some one who is very good at doing everything on the basketball court be one dimensional? I mean LeBron isn't the best scorer, thats Kobe. He isn't the best playmaker, thats the Steve Nashs and Rondos, he isn't the best rebounder, thats the Dwights and Gasols, he isn't the best shot blocker, thats the Dwights and Josh Smiths, but of all the things i just mention, he is VERY VERY GOOD at doing ALL of them. His stat line(regardless of how good or bad the squad has been) since he was like 21 years old has been 30pts-8rebs-8asts-1.5steals-1block. (of course i rounded up lol but close enough). That is why Micheal Jordan is considered the best, it's cus he did everything on the court, not the 6 rings, i mean Bill Russel has a whoping 11 rings, as in he got so many finals mvp they renamed finals mvp awards the bill russel awards!!!! It's because he did everything, LeBron's stat was line is similar to MJ's. Im not saying LeBron is as good as Micheal, no but neither is Kobe. Micheal Jordan is a combination of LeBron's doing everything and Kobe's scoring abiity, so until LeBron starts scoring at the same skill level as Kobe, no one would be as good as Micheal.
LeBron is better than Kobe IMO because like i said he isn't the best scorer but i think its safe to say hes the second best. But LeBron is much better than Kobe at EVERYTHING ELSE. I mean freethrow shooting, jumpshots, in short offense, Kobe is better, but LeBron is actually more efficient in regular fg% AND 3pt%than Kobe anyways so id rather have someone actually score more on less attempts. But rebounding, playmaking, defence(on-ball is arguable, off-ball-thats blocks and steals- is undeniable), even leadership, Kobe is not the leader of the Lakers people, it's Derek Fisher. The best player on the team is NOT the leader, Carmelo is the leader of the nuggets, it's Billups, Joe Johnson isnt the leader of the Hawks(i dk if they have a leader). So i'd take someone who is a jack of all trades than someone is is the master of just one.
DAMN THAT WAS LONG. I THINK IT DESERVES IT'S OWN THREAD.

[Rip32]

Did i know there was another LeBron James thread? umm no, i had class in 3 and a half mins so i quickly wrote something up and posted it up, sorry i didn't have time to browse the forum in it's entirety for another similar topic, and technically i would get wayyyy more people to see this if i posted it under a thread that already has a bunch of views so yeah.

Pretty sure It was the fourth or fifth topic down and you just wanted people to comment on your ALL CAPS EXCLAMATION OF LEBRON JAMES' SECRET CHAMPIONSHIP/FREE AGENT/CHRIS JENT CONSPIRACY

Kobe is not the leader of the Lakers people, it's Derek Fisher.

Any make believe evidence to back this point up? As a leader, Derek Fisher is a calming influence on the Lakers' players because Kobe's constant scowls, stares, and verbal announcements to his teammates are his brutal ways of being the team's leader.

Not to bring up the over-used comparison of Kobe to Jordan, but the ways they lead are very similar. Both were highly competitive guys who weren't down with their teammates not giving as much effort as they were every single game. Your argument for the best player NOT being the leader is flawed. Jordan was the leader on the Bulls, Magic on the Lakers, Bird on the Celtics, Russell on the Celtics, etc etc. It's not always the best guy, but the ideal situation for a team looking to win championship is for its best player to be its best leader as well. Look at the last seven NBA Finals and tell me the best guy on the NBA Champ wasn't the leader:

(I excluded the three Lakers' championships because that's one of the rare cases where the best player, Shaq, wasn't the leader.)
Lakers- Kobe
Celtics- KG
Spurs- Duncan
Heat- Wade
Spurs- Duncan
Pistons- Billups
Spurs- Duncan

Best players on each team. I guess you could argue the Wade/Shaq debate in 2006, but for the sake of our eyes I'll give that to you. Shaquille isn't a leader, but six of the last seven champs were led by a best player who doubled as the team's leader.

[benji]

DAMN THAT WAS LONG. I THINK IT DESERVES IT'S OWN THREAD.

No, just paragraphs.

[air gordon]

so Lebron James, Chris Bosh, etc don't want to come to chicago because....??

I never said any such thing. All I said was that the reputation of the Bulls' front office and the way they've conducted themselves concerns me a little when it comes to them making a pitch to free agents. It's just a nagging thought, I'm not stating definitively that they cannot attract a top free agent because of it.

i enjoy giving the F.O a hard time myself. but let's step back for a second... What is their "rep"? aside from the Del Negro situation, paxWoman has done a good job setting up the team to be an attractive option for a max player, fingers crossed LBJ, and another decent player.

[koberulz]

This really deserved a thread on its own instead of going in the other LeBron-stakes thread?

So in other words, "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!" right?

Did i know there was another LeBron James thread? umm no, i had class in 3 and a half mins so i quickly wrote something up and posted it up, sorry i didn't have time to browse the forum in it's entirety for another similar topic, and technically i would get wayyyy more people to see this if i posted it under a thread that already has a bunch of views so yeah.

It was at the top of the first page. Not hard to find.

But for the tard who said LeBron is one dimensional.

Here we go again...

How can some one who is very good at doing everything on the basketball court be one dimensional?

Because he's not a good shooter and he's got no mid-range or post-up game. As I've explained plenty, yet you appear to have missed. By definition, he therefore isn't "very good" at "everything".

Micheal Jordan is a combination of LeBron's doing everything and Kobe's scoring abiity, so until LeBron starts scoring at the same skill level as Kobe, no one would be as good as Micheal.

Funnily enough, that's actually pretty much my point, minus the Jordan comparison.

LeBron is better than Kobe IMO because like i said he isn't the best scorer but i think its safe to say hes the second best.

Well done sir. That's not self-contradictory at all.

I mean freethrow shooting, jumpshots, in short offense, Kobe is better

Again, you're using my point to argue against me, which isn't going to get you very far.

but LeBron is actually more efficient in...3pt%than Kobe

This year. By something around 0.5%. Kobe Bryant shot significantly worse from three this year than most others. He's had shocking years before, but even with those his career average is still above LeBron's.

anyways so id rather have someone actually score more on less attempts.

With numbers that don't exist. Come back when LeBron's scored 52 points on 26 shots.

defence(on-ball is arguable

It's not even arguable, you're just wrong.

off-ball-thats blocks and steals- is undeniable)

No. No, no, no, no, no. Off-ball defence isn't about blocks and steals at all. That's cherry-picking. I think you have the two confused.

even leadership, Kobe is not the leader of the Lakers people, it's Derek Fisher.

What.

i'd take someone who is a jack of all trades than someone is is the master of just one.

So...someone who can shoot the three, get to the rim, post up, and play in the mid-range over someone who can only penetrate? Good to see we agree, then.

[Andrew]

i enjoy giving the F.O a hard time myself. but let's step back for a second... What is their "rep"? aside from the Del Negro situation, paxWoman has done a good job setting up the team to be an attractive option for a max player, fingers crossed LBJ, and another decent player.

True, I second guessed letting Gordon for nothing and ultimately they repeated the previous year's record while setting themselves up to pursue a top free agent. It hasn't been a complete disaster, we've got to give them some credit where it's due. Fingers crossed they don't squander that opportunity, but seeing how they're dragging their feet in hiring a coach and didn't even bother to lowball or even talk to Gordon last year, I don't have complete confidence in them.

[J@3]

So...someone who can shoot the three, get to the rim, post up, and play in the mid-range over someone who can only penetrate? Good to see we agree, then.

But that's just one trade; scoring. The end result is what matters, if LeBron can score 30 and shoot 55% just by penetrating why is it less valuable than Kobe scoring 30 on 55% but shooting on a mix of mid-range jumpers, penetration, fadeaways, post-ups, leaners etc.?

[benji]

I can see why all you talk about is scoring it's the only way you can get close to your "one-dimensional" nonsense. (While willfully ignoring LeBron's jump-shooting numbers as discussed above.)

With numbers that don't exist. Come back when LeBron's scored 52 points on 26 shots.

Come back when Kobe's scored 53 points on 19 field goal attempts. Willie Burton > Kobe Bryant confirmed. QED. You can't refute the facts.

[rise]

koberulz, of course you are going to say that Lebron isn't as good as Kobe, otherwise your screen name would be KingJamesRulez or something. I agree what you say about Kobe vs. LeBron for now. 2 or 3 seasons from now, Kobe will most likely be on his way down and LeBron will be at the top of his game. You have to understand that he is still pretty young (25) and he hasn't reached his full potential yet. He will become the closest we've seen to Michael Jordan since MJ himself if he keeps improving. There's a good chance he'll be better than Kobe is now or was a few years ago. It's true, he needs some work in areas (three point shooting, etc...) LeBron will do better on a better team. Kobe has Pau, Fisher, and Odom to help him. Bron only has a 38-year old Shaq, Mo Williams, and Anderson Varejao as decent teammates. If Kobe and LeBron were to switch teams for a season, I'm pretty sure LeBron would be so much better off than Kobe and there's no way around it.

[benji]

That builds off another point to make re: that single game that means nothing. Kobe was 28 when he had that game. He's played in the league for 13 years. Shouldn't we compare LeBron's career to Kobe's at the same age?

Player	P/36	R/36	A/36	S/36	B/36	TS%	TOV%	ORtg	PER	WS/48
LeBron James	24.8	6.3	6.2	1.56	0.78	.562	11.7	114	26.9	.224
Kobe Bryant	22.8	5.3	4.4	1.53	0.68	.548	12.1	110	22.2	.187

I've bolded for everyone where LeBron has been better.

[rise]

I'd like to see LeBron's stats when he's 32!

[benji]

How about this? LeBron vs. Kobe on jumpers at the same age?

Player	% of FGA Jumpers	eFG% on Jumpers	% of Jumpers Assisted	% of FGA Threes	3P%	FG% on 2PT Jumpers
LeBron James (2009-10)	64%	.436	24%	25.3	.333	.393
Kobe Bryant (2002-03)	78%	.440	39%	16.8	.383	.406

But Ben, you just hinted (despite the claims of the greatest player not in the NBA) that there was more to the game than shooting jumpers! Well, okay, how did they use their possessions?

% of possessions ending with a:

Player	2pt Jumper	3pt Jumper	Non-Dunk Inside	Dunk	Free Throw	Pass	Turnover	Pass-to-Shot Ratio
LeBron James	21.3	13.9	14.8	4.4	12.2	28.8	4.0	2.32
Kobe Bryant	39.1	10.8	9.6	3.8	10.4	20.7	4.9	3.57

So LeBron spent two-thirds of his possessions taking a shot, of which a majority were higher value shots, despite the lower turnover rate? Yep, While Kobe used three-fourths of his possessions on taking a shot, more than half of which were two-point jumpers the least valuable shot in the game? Yep.

Huh. Interesting. But surely there's some kind of accepted versatility measure? Yeah, there's the Versatility Index that weights scoring, rebounding and assists equally:
LeBron James: 12.31
Kobe Bryant: 10.69
Reggie Evans, same season as Kobe: 3.89

[shadowgrin]

I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[NovU]

A lot of dog diarrhea shit spits in this thread, but at least we get to see undeniable strong points from benji's stats.

[koberulz]

A lot of dog diarrhea shit spits in this thread, but at least we get to see undeniable strong points from benji's stats.

Are you ever going to say anything remotely constructive?

Currently watching the Nuggets/Cavs game mentioned earlier in this thread, will respond to benji when I'm done.

[NovU]

Better question is, if you are ever going to lay it off and say "I stand corrected." for once in your life. You were proven wrong in your every single stupid claims and yet you keep on dragging it on, spitting same dog shit diarrhea over and over again. Well... if you ever stop doing it, somebody finally might take your idea more seriously.

[koberulz]

Better question is, if you are ever going to lay it off and say "I stand corrected." for once in your life.

I'd have to 'stand corrected' first, though.

You were proven wrong in your every single stupid claims

Including the ones you agreed with? Weird, that.

and yet you keep on dragging it on, spitting same dog shit diarrhea over and over again. Well... if you ever stop doing it, somebody finally might take your idea more seriously.

Do you listen to yourself?

[benji]

You two idiots need to shut up about how bad your break-up went. Read the last page after Andrew's post and see what your brain-damage caused gibberish does to a thread that was originally about BASKETBALL.

[NovU]

I apologize on my part of mess in this thread.

a thread that was originally about BASKETBALL.

I felt it was more of diarrhea with ego problem who just likes to prove everybody else wrong by pushing his absurd view on basketball.

But... again, I played along to it. Don't let me bother you anymore, koberulz. Carry on.

[koberulz]

Finished watching that game, not sure how I'm meant to draw the conclusion from that that LeBron is at all a well-rounded player offensively. Carmelo thoroughly outplayed him there, managing to win the game with a mid-range jumpshot after LeBron bricked several threes at the other end and finished up by getting Nene on a switch and, instead of turning the corner and getting to the rim, backing all the way out to half court and doing his whole 'size-up' thing, thus allowing the Nuggets the chance at the last shot.

His post game consisted of facing up and driving, and his mid-range game of a needless dribble, spinning around, and hoisting a fadeaway. Which missed. Not that it really matters, it was a bad shot either way. Melo, under the same circumstances, just shoots the damn ball instead of standing there for ten seconds and then panicking.

How about this? LeBron vs. Kobe on jumpers at the same age?

Player	% of FGA Jumpers	eFG% on Jumpers	% of Jumpers Assisted	% of FGA Threes	3P%	FG% on 2PT Jumpers
LeBron James (2009-10)	64%	.436	24%	25.3	.333	.393
Kobe Bryant (2002-03)	78%	.440	39%	16.8	.383	.406

So Kobe Bryant is a better shooter than LeBron James? That's kinda my point. Despite this, and Kobe being completely ridiculous from deep that year, LeBron shoots more threes. Which is bizarre.

So LeBron spent two-thirds of his possessions taking a shot, of which a majority were higher value shots, despite the lower turnover rate? Yep, While Kobe used three-fourths of his possessions on taking a shot, more than half of which were two-point jumpers the least valuable shot in the game? Yep.

There's nothing wrong with two-point jumpers if that's what the defense is giving you. And at no point have I ever argued that Bryant is a more efficient player than James, simply that he's a more versatile scorer and LeBron is limited offensively. Points these stats back up. It works for him, sure, but there are times he's really limited by only having one real facet to his game (such as the Nuggets game discussed above). If he's got Billups in the post, and opts to face up and drive, or back out and drive, or simply look for a pass, he's not taking full advantage of the situation.

Further, and this is where this debate actually started (and yeah, it's gone way off its original basis and turned into LeBron vs Kobe), such limited capacity would make it difficult for LeBron to survive, much less thrive, with a Dwyane Wade, since both players fill the same role. It's with versatility that one can better function in such situations. Two penetrating scorers on one team won't function nearly as well as if they, or at least one of them, can shoot the three, or operate in the post and the mid-range, like a Kobe Bryant or a Carmelo Anthony.