Bill!Where are you...?

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

All is good with your post Andrew, but what do you make of Floyd's record in New Orleans without Jamal Mashburn? Baron Davis has been great, but they have set-up the Princeton offense, something like New Jersey and Sacramento runs, getting many dunks for Brown and Magloire, this is not just having good players, because on paper this is not a great line-up:

G-Davis
G-Wesley
F-Lynch
F-Brown
C-Magloire

Speaking of Line-ups; Orlando 1999-2000:

He had Ben Wallace, Bo Outlaw, John Amaechi, Michael Doleac and Pat Garrity clearing the boards and Corey Maggette, Darrell Armstrong, Ron Mercer, Monty Williams, Anthony Johnson and Chucky Atkins handling the ball and scoring.

Though not drafted by NBA team makes for good arguement, comparing them to Hersey Hawkins, Randy Brown, Matt Maloney, Dickey Simpkins, Fred Hoiberg, Corey Benjamin, Chris Anstey, John Starks and Elton Brand and such porkchops as Dedric Willoughby, Khalid Reeves, Will Perdue, Michael Ruffin and Chris Carr is a stretch.

Another way to compare them is how many of Doc's players are still around the league contributing something to an NBA team?
Only Artest and Brand (when he plays) are good and Hoiberg and Ruffin remain in the league at all, but Doc has 10 players from that team still in the league, including a two-time defensive player of the year.

I guess I just think Floyd is as bad as you and wonder who the hell he is to keep getting the calls from GMs, but two things remain in my mind, New Orleans is looking pretty good minus a great player and that Chicago didn't even make an effort to put a team together from 1999 until recently.

But hey Andrew that's just me, I didn't suffer through that dark period like you did, so I have nothing against Floyd.

[air gordon]

some of the blame for the follies of the Floyd era must fall upon Floyd himself.

i think the only blame floyd should get is for not playing the young guys more. but then again can you blame the guy for having some pride and playing the vets in order to win some games?

But as you noted Mike, this year's squad is the best in the years, and should be playing better than their record (and those 20+ point losses) indicate. All the more reason for the new head coach (apparently Scott Skiles) to do better than Tim Floyd. If he can't do better than Floyd with a much better roster than Floyd ever had in Chicago, then he's definitely not the man for the job.

i strongly disagree. it's a poor comparison. the current bulls roster blows any team floyd coached out of the water when he was still with the bulls. and was floyd supposed to do a better job with the talent he had?

floyd was happy to be in the league and when he took the job, he was under the impression that were was going to be some talent around. wrong. kerr, buechler, longley, and pip all left. 13-37 was the bulls record in the strike shortened season. i was even surprised the bulls were able to reach double digits in wins. the roster he had to work with was probably the most experienced talent for his entire coaching stint in chicago: kukoc, harper, brent barry, randy brown, mark bryant, beef wennington. pathetic but it could have been worse.

the rest of the rosters floyd were dealt were built to lose...lose bad:
99-00 roster: see the truth's post. krause was trying to save money to bring in some big FA's in the offseason. pathetic season, the team can't score and stop opposing teams from scoring. final record: 17-65

00-01: bulls strike out in the FA signings and have to settle for Mercer and Brad Miller. krause loads up on the rookies- drafting another PF in fizer (despite drafting brand the year before), crawford, guyton, bagaric, el-amin. bulls put more points on the board but are still pathetic. more losing: 15-67

01-02: floyd cries for veteran help and what does krause do? he trades his best player (brand) and drafts an unprecedented 2 high schoolers in the first round. wonder what was going through floyd's mind at this point. the team has won only 45 games the past 3 seasons and is krause is starting over the rebuilding process?! the bulls "big FA signing' is high flyer eddie robinson, who spends most of the season injured. floyd at this point is losing mind and is reluctant to play to youngsters because he wants to win. the oakley resigning backfires and just makes things worse. floyd can only muster 4 wins before his firing. the team goes on to win 17 more games, mostly due to the jalen rose trade (which curiously happens when floyd is out the door) and the young guys responding well to getting more PT

would any coach do a significantly better job in this stretch with that talent??

bottom line here is that floyd never had the amount of talent (though unmotivated, sleepy) that coach skiles will be working with. you can't use floyd as a comparison since he had nothing his whole time here.

and if you're just pointing out 'well if he can't do a better job then floyd, he doesn't belong' that's just like saying i should be beat a person who is handicapped from the waist down in a foot race.


PP- look at that hornets lineup- those players have been on modrerately successful teams in the past and have a good amount of nba experience.

happy turkey (well, not fo the the turkeys themselves) day

[Andrew]

i think the only blame floyd should get is for not playing the young guys more. but then again can you blame the guy for having some pride and playing the vets in order to win some games?

Not at all. But I think everyone should accept some of the blame when the team is losing, and everyone deserves a bit of credit when the team is winning. Even the 12th man on the roster who comes in at the end of games and scores points in garbage time deserves credit for accepting his role and being ready to play whenever he's called on, seldom as it may be.

i strongly disagree. it's a poor comparison. the current bulls roster blows any team floyd coached out of the water when he was still with the bulls. and was floyd supposed to do a better job with the talent he had?

I agree. This year's roster is far superior to any roster Floyd had at his disposal. I made a point of mentioning that. I still think Floyd could have done better - not made the playoffs, not won a championship, just had a better record - then he did. Other coaches have seemingly squeezed blood from a stone so to speak, so why couldn't Floyd?

bottom line here is that floyd never had the amount of talent (though unmotivated, sleepy) that coach skiles will be working with. you can't use floyd as a comparison since he had nothing his whole time here.

and if you're just pointing out 'well if he can't do a better job then floyd, he doesn't belong' that's just like saying i should be beat a person who is handicapped from the waist down in a foot race.

Perhaps my post was poorly worded. I'll rephrase my point of view.

If Scott Skiles amasses a record that is worse than Tim Floyd's stint with the Bulls, with a roster that is far superior to any squad Floyd ever had, wouldn't you say there is something seriously wrong? Wouldn't that say he's not the man for the job?

That is why it makes sense to hope Skiles does a better job than Floyd. If he can't, then something is really wrong. If he can't win more games than Floyd did with a better roster and in an Eastern Conference that is growing weaker and weaker, then it will be a huge disappointment.

Floyd can fall back on a lack of talent as an excuse (though I still think he could have done a little better), but Skiles can't. Skiles must do better than Floyd, else he's not much of a coach.

[Wall St. Peon]

What you're forgetting about Floyd's stint in Chicago is that Krause forced him to play the Triangle offense...I go to ISU, so I saw the type of offense Floyd likes to run, and what he's running in New Orleans is reminiscent of what he did here at Iowa State.

Think about this....would you want to play a bunch of young kids who don't understand the extremely difficult triangle offense, or would you want to play vets who pick up on intricaces of such an offense faster, even if they have little to no talent?

[air gordon]

k thanks for explaining your point again, andrew. but again, it is EXPECTED that any coach will do better then floyd. floyd's stint is basically equilvalent to a 0-16 season in the NFL, you can't get any worse. does it really make sense to HOPE skiles does a better job? perhaps all the losing has turned you into a insecure fan with a defeatus attitude. as i mentioned earlier, bulls fan shouldn't focus on how bad he shouldn't be but rather whether or not he can get the players to wake up and play some ball...

you say floyd could have done A LITTLE better. that's debateable but i think it's insignificant. it's like changing seats on the titanic. krause put those teams together to lose. another handful of wins would have just given them less lottery balls

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

Marion has the highest regard for Skiles. When asked a couple days ago by one of his teammates how he thought Scott would do with the Bulls, he replied, "He'll do well. I think he's a great coach."

"Contrary to popular opinion, there was no firing, no quitting and no animosity. Scott's a brilliant, no-nonsense guy who greatly respects the game."

http://www.nypost.com/sports/4328.htm

[Andrew]

but again, it is EXPECTED that any coach will do better then floyd. floyd's stint is basically equilvalent to a 0-16 season in the NFL, you can't get any worse. does it really make sense to HOPE skiles does a better job?

I guess not; it won't accomplish much. I guess if I'm going to have hope for anything, it should be for the Bulls to be on the right track and in a position to get back to the playoffs.

perhaps all the losing has turned you into a insecure fan with a defeatus attitude. as i mentioned earlier, bulls fan shouldn't focus on how bad he shouldn't be but rather whether or not he can get the players to wake up and play some ball...

That probably is a better attitude. Considering the worst and focusing on the past probably isn't the right approach. I'd just hate to see them take another step backwards after they've made improvements over the last year or so.

you say floyd could have done A LITTLE better. that's debateable but i think it's insignificant. it's like changing seats on the titanic. krause put those teams together to lose. another handful of wins would have just given them less lottery balls

I probably am being a little too hard on Floyd; his success thus far with the Hornets shows he's not as incompetent as I'd like to make him out to be. And you're right, more wins equals fewer chances in the lottery. My disdain for him probably stems from the fact he's "Krause's guy", the guy who was preferred to someone who won six championships in the 90s.