Jazz look more like Il Messaggero

This Jazz team is more like an Italian League team, than an NBA Team.
[Note: Jerry Sloan can coach]

Carlos Arroyo - Puerto Rico
Raja Bell - St. Croix, Virgin Islands
Andrei Kirilenko - Russia
Raul Lopez - Spain
Sacha Pavlovic - Serbia-Montenegro

Ben Handlogten - who in heck is this dude?

and
enough said.

But they are pretty decent, recently beating the T-Wolves.

Carlos Arroyo is perfect for John Stockton's replacement

Andrei Kirilenko = the best SF in the NBA

Andrei Kirilenko = the best SF in the NBA

yea. KG got nothin on him

Don't bother Dahl, according to Sheppy here, KG is a PF not a SF.

Let's just say he is a PF, that still leaves us with Shawn Marion...AK-47 is better than Marion? Sure.

Andrei Kirilenko = the best SF in the NBA

hmm...i wonder...who's better than Kirilenko?
Lewis,Mashburn,Marion,(not including KG)

garnett is much better than kirilenko...but as jackal pointed out, he's a PF

hmm...i wonder...who's better than Kirilenko?
Lewis,Mashburn,Marion,(not including KG)

marion last season got 41.6mpg. the 3 you mentioned plus kirilenko if they got that court time (going by last seasons statistics):

Lewis - 19.1, 6.8r, 1.8a, 1.36s, .47b, 1.96t

Mashburn - 22.2p, 6.3r, 5.7a, 1.04s, .22b, 2.88t

Marion - 21.2p, 9.5r, 2.4a, 2.28s, 1.17b, 1.94t

Kirilenko - 18p, 8r, 2.5a, 2.22s, 3.29b, 2.55t

marion is the only one close to kirilenko, but in the end, kirilenko's dominance in the blocking department blows marion out of the water.

That's IF he got the court time, so at the moment, Marion is still better .

Projecting stats is not the best arguement, let's say a guy plays around 15 min each night and scores 9.7 ppg, can one argue if he played 41 minutes like so and so, he would be getting 26.5 ppg.

Sometimes in short stretches players can produce good numbers, like everyone else, say like Steve Kerr did, but it doesn't project that way over a full game.

If Dennis Rodman played in 1961 when they took around 40 more shots a game or something and played 48 minutes like Wilt did, he would have averaged 35 rebounds, this is another sort of speculation people should be careful of.

Sure Kirilenko is a great defender, but would he average

2.22s, 3.29b

? Right now he is playing 34.9 min and averaging 1.44, 1.89.
Even over 41 minutes it's 1.69, 2.22.

Ron Artest is a better comparison to Andrei Kirilenko anyway.

Artest____________Kirilenko
40.6____Minutes___34.9
18.9____Points____16.3 (19.0)
6.2_____Rebounds_6.7 (7.8)
3.4_____Assists____2.2 (2.6)
2.4_____Steals_____1.4 (1.7)
1.0_____Blocks_____1.9 (2.2)

Again circumstances are different, Kirilenko has a long long way too go to be considered the on the ball defender that Artest is, also he doesn't have Jermaine O'Neal, he has Oestertag and Harpring getting about the same rebounds as Harrington and Foster, Jermaine O'Neal gets another 10.7 rebounds with1.3 steals and 2.9 blocks. There is no O'Neal on Utah.

I do think that Kirilenko is a great player, but he's not the best small forward in the NBA.

Let's look at Antoine Walker's 16.3 ppg 9.8 reb 4.8 ast, he doesn't put up the defensive numbers like Kirilenko, and is not asked to.

Let's look at Kevin Garnett, in 10 games Mark Madsen started 6 games with Cassell, Spreewell, Garnett, and Kandiman, which of these players would be the small forward getting 22.0 ppg, 12.7 rebs, 4.1 ast, 1.1 stl and 2.5 blocks?

Let's look at Shawn Marion 16.8 ppg, 8.8 reb, 2.0 ast, 1.3 stl and 2.1 blk.

Let's look at Rasheed Wallace (Dale Davis and Zack Randolph started every game, unless one of them is SF, that leaves Wallace) 17.0 ppg, 7.4 reb, 3.3 ast, 1.0 stl and 1.4 blk.

Vladimir Radmanovic or Rashard Lewis play SF for Seattle, pick your poison. Lewis gets 23.7 ppg, 6.3 reb, 2.4 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.6 blk. Radmanovic gets 12.4 ppg, 7.3 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.9 stl and 1.0 blk.

I would say for sure that Garnett, Marion, Walker, Wallace and Rashard Lewis in the West play a more productive Small Forward.

If Radmanovic is the small forward, he's very close to Kirilenko.

Nothing against Andrei Kirilenko, but the best at his position seems to be pressing it a bit far.

Don't bother paul pierce, I've tried to discuss this (KG being a natural SF, NOT a PF) but he's just too stubborn to listen .

On second thought, it's his opinion so it doesnt bother me that much.

KG is a small forward, it's not a matter of opinion.

I know that, you know that, he doesnt want to know that .

i agree, kevin garnett is a SF this season. but i am not talking about this season, i am talking about last season. you are comparing players stats 9 games into the season as a method to see who's better, it doesn't make any sense. rashard lewis scored 50 in one game, which is why his ppg is so high, i'd expect that to drop to 19-20 by the end of the season...which by then we'll be able to discuss this season's statistics to determine the better player but until then i'll discuss last seasons statistics.

minnesota starting 5 last season
C nesterovic
PF garnett
SF szczerbiak
SG peeler
PG hudson

let's say a guy plays around 15 min each night and scores 9.7 ppg, can one argue if he played 41 minutes like so and so, he would be getting 26.5 ppg.

i wouldn't compare a player who gets 15 to a player who gets 41 minutes. kirilenko averaged 28 minutes a game last season, which is grounds to compare

Sometimes in short stretches players can produce good numbers, like everyone else, say like Steve Kerr did, but it doesn't project that way over a full game.

well i could argue that when a player plays 41 minutes a game he has the opportunity to let the game come to him without feeling the pressure to perform as a bench player does.

Right now he is playing 34.9 min and averaging 1.44, 1.89.
Even over 41 minutes it's 1.69, 2.22.

true. but i'd expect those numbers to increase, remember its only 9 games into the season.

Let's look at Kevin Garnett, in 10 games Mark Madsen started 6 games with Cassell, Spreewell, Garnett, and Kandiman, which of these players would be the small forward getting 22.0 ppg, 12.7 rebs, 4.1 ast, 1.1 stl and 2.5 blocks?

yes i agree, garnett is a SF so far this season and is putting up mvp numbers.

...you continue to compare who has done what this season. simply put, i will not do this, as it is still very early into the season.

it's his opinion so it doesnt bother me that much

don't reply then

EDIT: another strong all-round performance by kirilenko today-12p, 11r, 6a, 3s, 3b

A player's natural position doesnt change season to season man .

McGrady has played SF quite a bit in his carreer, doesnt make him a SF instead of a SG does it?

Garnett's natural position is SF and will remain that way no matter which position he starts...he is a SF.

Ooh, explain this to me: Last season, you say he was a PF right? Well how come he started at SF in the All-Star game?

i thought Wally Szczerbiak was a straight up SG...

Ooh, explain this to me: Last season, you say he was a PF right? Well how come he started at SF in the All-Star game?

Um...whatever you're trying to prove...that's not the way to do it. Allen Iverson started at point guard in that game...

yeah that's right, and the West line-up was weird with all the big man, even Shaq wasn't at the center at one moment so...

Remember the T-Wolves 1999 Starting Lineup? The coach jacked it up

It was like

C-Garnett
PF-Tom Hammonds
SF-Forgot
SG-Forgot
PG-MARBURY!?

McGrady has played SF quite a bit in his carreer, doesnt make him a SF instead of a SG does it

no it doesn't...because he played SG last season

Ooh, explain this to me: Last season, you say he was a PF right? Well how come he started at SF in the All-Star game?

...proof that you lack any understanding of the NBA what so ever.

i judge players on what postion they play. you might be different (albeit stupid) to compare a player who plays power forward all season to one that plays small forward when discussing who is the best small forward, but thats you. the NBA Live series even changes player positions from time to time...

...KG is a NATURAL SF and will remain that. That's all I have to say. Just cuz he's put at the PF doesnt naturally make him a SF.

Sheppy....so you are saying things based on last season´s stats....ok..

Kirilenko:
12 ppg
1,7 ass
2,19 blocks
5,3 rebs

k......now Shawn Marion:
21,2 ppg
2,4 ass
1,17 blocks
9,5 rebs

Imo these stats tell me that Shawn Marion was the better one.

Also, Marion became an All-Star

koeighte4mvp:

no doubt marion had the better season. but if they get the same minutes, kirilenko is better

bla bla bla i like repeating myself bla bla even though i'm not making any sense bla bla bla

EDIT: Kirilenko today in 37 minutes: 25p, 10r, 3a, 3s, 1b

Last edited by Shep on Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Remember the T-Wolves 1999 Starting Lineup? The coach jacked it up

It was like

C-Garnett
PF-Tom Hammonds
SF-Forgot
SG-Forgot
PG-MARBURY!?

Actually, it was:

C: Dean Garrett
F: Joe Smith
F: Kevin Garnett
G: Anthony Peeler
G: Terrell Brandon*

* Brandon came from Milwaukee in the three team deal that sent Stephon Marbury to New Jersey. Previously, Marbury had been the starting point guard. Sam Mitchell also started some games at shooting guard.

Garnett's a point guard if I ever saw one...

THE POWER FORWARD’S RESPONSIBILITIES
The power forward must excel on the defensive end of the court. He not only has to be a tremendous defensive rebounder, but, he must be able to play outstanding defense in the post. Often times the power forward is called upon to guard the other team’s center—given that his own center finds himself in foul trouble. The strength of a team’s ability to fastbreak lies in the power forward, who should almost always lead his team in rebounding. His ability to take the ball off the glass and throw the outlet to his point guard with both speed and efficiency is imperative to fast break points. On the offensive end, a good power forward creates second-chance opportunities for his team by grabbing offensive rebounds, providing his team with another possession. Also, he must be able to hit the open jump shot, as he often finds himself as the man left open when defenses are attempting to shut down his center or one of his team’s sharp-shooting guards. Power forwards also must provide that intangible spark for their team: his physical and mental toughness should fire up his teammates. He should be the ultimate “leader by example.”

Submitted by: Paul Tayyar

THE SMALL FORWARD’S RESPONSIBILITIES
The small forward should be the best one-on-one player on his team. He needs to be able to have a nose for the basket, and translate that scent into points for his team. When an offensive set breaks down, the small forward should be able to take his man off the dribble, and get into the lane to make something happen. He should be able to run the floor with ease, and have the ability to score at will when he gets the ball on a fastbreak. Though being a fabulous shooter is not expected, he should be able to consistently hit the outside shot, which thus forces his defender to play him honestly, rather than sagging off and making him beat him strictly from the outside. The small forward needs to be an energy player; he has to be the person that provides an exciting basket or play when the team needs a lift. Defensively, his ability to shut down the other team’s swing-men—as the two and three positions are often called—is very important. The small forward also needs to be able to handle the ball; he should be able to get his team into the offense if his point guard is being heavily pressured. Though a strong post game is not required, he should be able to play out of the post, using his quickness to his advantage against slower defenders.

Submitted by: Paul Tayyar

Now, judging by those descriptions, which is Garnett? If you aren't sure, maybe it's because Garnett is such an all-around player that he's able to play both the forward positions? Think about his game...does Garnett play like Tim Duncan, or does he play more like, say, Grant Hill? I'd say the latter rather than the former. Hill is the epitomy of what a small forward should do, and Duncan is the epitomy of what a power forward should be.

Garnett would start at small forward on teams with a good power forward. However, the T-Wolves are playing Szczerbiak at small forward, Spree at shooting guard, and Cassell at point guard, not to mention Olowokandi at center. Garnett plays at power forward because that's the position open for him. Would you say that Sprewell was a forward when he played in New York when he's clearly a shooting guard? Oh, and before you ask why the T-wolves didn't start him at small forward last year, the Twolves had Kendall Gill for the guard or small forward spot...

Your true, natural position, depends on the way you play the game, not the position you play. I have friends from high school who were 6'4 and played like guards, yet they started at center...why? Because they were the tallest and most skilled guys on the team, so they could play anything from point guard to center. Garnett's that good...

Another argument would be Magic Johnson. He was a point guard, right? But he could play shooting guard, small forward, power forward, and center, and he DID play them. But what was his natural position? If I have to say anything more than this, I'm not going to because it's pointless to pound a square peg into a round hole

Hey...do players and the league list their postition different but actually play on court as a different position so that it is better in the media to create controvesy...so say T-mac is listed as SG and so they write articles on him vs. Kobe...and in the game as a SF...or the other way round. All this to sell the League to fans...

I'm not sure bout wat im saying...but hopefully u get the drift...if im confusing...than pretend i said nothing!

Anyway...Go Deshawn Stevenson! He's freakin awesome!