Shaq The Best Player Statistically?

[Jackal]

Ranking the greatest NBA players of all time is no easy task.

I have never seen this stat before and it really puts things into context across the various eras of great centers.

Here are the highlights from the article in the March 31, 2003 ESPN the Magazine:

This is the 11th season in a row (every year he has been in the league) that Shaq has averaged 20+ pts and 10+ boards. That's one year shy of the longest streak in NBA history held by Wilt and Kareem and Hakeem at 12 seasons.

However, it doesn't stop there. By putting Shaq's scoring and rebounding totals into context for the era he plays in he has already surpassed Wilt and Kareem and Hakeem because Shaq has played in an era where far fewer shots are being taken.

In Shaq's rookie season NBA teams averaged 172 FG attempts. At that time that was the lowest average of any season since 1954 when the shot clock was introduced. It's also an average that has not been matched in the past 10 years. Fewer shots mean fewer points and fewer rebounds. As a result, 20/10 means more in Shaq's era.

In Wilt's era 217 shots were attempted in a typical game. Each team averaged 115 points and 64 rebounds. In todays game teams average 95 points and 42 rebounds.

So to adjust for the different eras let's count the seasons in which Shaq, Wilt, Kareem and Hakeem's per game averages of points and rebounds have been 25% or higher of the averages of all teams in the league.

Here are the results:

Wilt did this seven seasons. Kareem in six. Hakeem in three.

Shaq beats them all. His averages of rebounds and points have been 25% or higher of the team league averages in TEN SEASONS out of his eleven years in the league.

Above is something someone wrote on another forum.

What do you think?

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

I love statistics, it's my life, but you can adjust and move and flux them to just about whatever you want.

There is a saying:

"There are lies, damn lies and than there are statistics."

I believe the daddy is a great center and would have gone wild in the 60s, I am not sure rebounds have ever been so important to him to grab say 27 per game in any era, but in the 60s he would have done as much as Wilt if given the same opportunities.

He certainly is the most dominating player today, but sometimes the Lakers do not give him the ball enough, sometimes he isn't into it.
Mostly I believe Phil Jackson has never been a big fan of the power game, he likes Kobe with the ball more than he likes Shaq, it's just my opinion.

[VCFAN]

yeah this is an interesting point
Shaq has maintained his strength and dominance for quit a while and has not really slowed down very much.

I think it is important that you mentioned that teams in Kareems and Wilts era's averaged more points and rebounds per game than they do now. This means completing such a task is harder to do with less scoring and rebounfing opportunites.

Keep it up Shaq!

[Jackal]

He certainly is the most dominating player today, but sometimes the Lakers do not give him the ball enough, sometimes he isn't into it.
Mostly I believe Phil Jackson has never been a big fan of the power game, he likes Kobe with the ball more than he likes Shaq, it's just my opinion.

Agreed, (seem to be agreeing alot these days ) he tends to get bored if he's not involved in the game. Which happened often last year. Oh well, new year, new plot.

Jackson does like the finesse game more compared to the power game, but he smart enough to know, that when the going gets tough, get the ball to Shaq.

[Swoosh]

This brings up an interesting thought imo, scoring was idd higher those days and thus adding the possibility of grabbin' more boards. But have u seen the way these guys are shooting right now? I know it's the start of the season but they really have to get their act together imo.
Also, i think there should be kept in mind that defense back then aint the defense it is now, playbooks only have gotten thicker and complicated and there's just more attention to it(defense itself), i know there are a lot of complaints about fundamentals(and i could be wrong, im just stating what i believe could be true) but the nba got thougher too, players are much stronger and harder to take on these days so it would be more difficult to get past them or push them around? And shaq is just the most physically dominant player out there for the moment.
That's why guys like kobe and t-mac are such special players, becuz of their athletic ability and ability to create their own shot they stand out from all the others, because this aspect is more important these days then it ever was(maybe thats why lebron is making an impact too?), just my 2cents, i'd like to hear your thoughts.

PS: I apologise for going off topic, but i didnt feel the need to make a new thread, cuz after reading the thingy about higher scores and being able to grab more rebounds(so it actually relates to stats, but not to o'neal 's accomplishments) i just related to defense these days, but if you guys dont wanna get into it, no one to blame

[Jackal]

I think that's the point that dude tried to make, defense of now is a killer, so put Shaq back in those times (when defense was a little looser) and he would've been a monster.

If this is the case, I agree, Shaq would be huge back then, now there are SO many rules, in Wilt's time, Shaq would have a great time.

[Swoosh]

Yeah i apologise, i just read the post trough again and i had to edit my post a little, but it still remains an interesting subject

[Shep]

shaquille o'neals reign of being the most dominant player in the NBA is over. tim duncan is, shaq second, kevin garnett third

[scubilete]

Wilt was athletic not powerful like Shaq.

-Wilt is the only center in leading the league in assists one season.
-He played for the Globetrotters & his position there was Guard.
-The steals & blocks were not recorded but you can bet he averaged more than Olajuwon in any of them as well while Shaq playing in the same era than Olajuwon, hasn't shown he can do that.
-Wilt first NBA game "scored 43 points on 17-of-20 shooting, grabbed 28 rebounds, and blocked 17 shots", even when the blocks were not compiled, from the full game video they took that info.
-Wilt was not the tallest guy in the NBA in 1962. Swede Halbrook (7'3") was
-Wilt's "go-to" move was not the dunk, but rather the finger roll and the fade away jump shot
-Wilt never fouled out of a game, however, he was ejected from 2.
-In 1962, Wilt played all but 6 minutes for the entire season.
-In the 1967 Eastern Conference Finals against Bill Russell, Wilt averaged 22 ppg, 32 rpg, and 10 apg.
-Wilt used to lift weights with Arnold Shwartzenegger and Wilt got his bench press up to 500 pounds.
-Wilt ran the Honolulu Marathon and competed in a 50 mile Canadian race -- when he was over 60 years old!

Sure Shaq would have gotten some fun playing in the 60s, but yet he wouldn't accomplished what Wilt did cause Wilt was more athletic than Shaq can ever imagine being. Also, notice that the guy you quoted is just taking pts & rebs as stats, that's not all you have do to be the best.

[Old School Fool]

Shep....Tim Duncan is good...but not as powerfil and DOMINANT as SHAQ....Dude.....Shaq tore down the rim in New Jersey when he played for Orlando.....Not just the rim came down...The Whole damn obstacle that held the backboard came with him now THAT my friend is very very very very DOMINANT

[Shep]

Shaq tore down the rim in New Jersey when he played for Orlando.....Not just the rim came down...The Whole damn obstacle that held the backboard came with him now THAT my friend is very very very very DOMINANT

so you base you're observation as to who is the most dominant player in the game today by:
1. something somebody did 8 or so years ago
2. the fact that that somebody brought a rim down?

all i got to say about that is ' '

[MaD_hAND1e]

I think that's the point that dude tried to make, defense of now is a killer, so put Shaq back in those times (when defense was a little looser) and he would've been a monster.

If this is the case, I agree, Shaq would be huge back then, now there are SO many rules, in Wilt's time, Shaq would have a great time.

lol, Wilt had 100 in a game, shaq could've done tht in 3 quarters!!!

Shaq tore down the rim in New Jersey when he played for Orlando.....Not just the rim came down...The Whole damn obstacle that held the backboard came with him now THAT my friend is very very very very DOMINANT

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just cos he tore the obstacle and rim down, makes him dominant? lol
thats the funniest thing i've ever hear ROFLMAO!!!

[Jackal]

Scubilite, I agree that Wilt was more athletic, but given the chance, Shaq can rack up some pretty nice assists too.
If you read the article I posted, you'll see that the free-throw percentages are pretty similiar so those don't really need to be discussed, I hope.

I know rebounds and points aren't the only things that matter, but my point is, if Shaq was playing back then, he could've been just as good (maybe better??) than Wilt.

You've seen the points, the rebounds and the free-throw stats.

I'm sure you watched last nite's game against Detroit, Shaq had 3 assists in the first 6-7 minutes, and a total of 8 for the game, with the Glove and Bryant on his team. I think a near triple double (second of the season, if I'm not mistaken) speaks for itself, and we can surely say Shaq is a "decent" passer.

My point is: In Wilt's era, Shaq could've gotten his assists if he wanted to.

It's hard to discuss because we don't know for sure, but if we use a little bit of imagination, I think Shaq could do it.

Last nights game:A near triple double for O'Neal.

21 points, 15 reounds and 8 assists.

[bballer22]

I dont think there is a question that no matter how good of a team u have Shaq is a LONE DOMINANT FIGURE in the NBA. maybe his stats dont say the same and thats only becasue teams and coacher over the year figured out how to hold Shaq to under 30ppg. Shaq will always be the diffrance untill he leaves the court. With his strength and althletisism and knowledge if his possision he is ur No. concern on D, if u can maintain shaq worrie about other players later!

[paul_pierce_the_truth]

I understand the topic is comparing Shaq's stats with Chamberlain's, but I just threw this into the history lesson you guys are giving about domination.

Shaquille O'Neal and Wilt Chamberilain have combined for 5 NBA titles, while Bill Russell has 11.

David Robinson has 2 same as Wilt Chamberlain, one less than Shaq.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has 6, more than both Shaq and Wilt combined.
Willis Reed won 2 same as Wilt Chamberlain, one less than Shaq.
Hakeem Olajuwon won 2 same as Wilt Chamberlain, one less than Shaq.

Some say Russell played in times it was easier to win a title, well that was Wilt Chamberlain that Russell was pulverizing every year.

Three titles over his career may mean he betters Wilt Chamberlain, but that's it, other Centers have done more than or as much as either one during the next level, the NBA Playoffs.

Do Not tell me any nonsense like Luc Longley has three rings, the mentioned players were Centers who played vital roles, dominating roles with their teams.

1972-73 New York Knicks over Los Angeles Lakers 4-1 *Willis Reed, N.Y.
1969-70 New York Knicks over Los Angeles Lakers 4-3 *Willis Reed, N.Y.
[Twice over Wilt Chamberlain] *Playoff MVP

1994-95 Rockets over Magic 4-0 *Hakeem Olajuwon, Hou.

Boston eliminated Wilt Chamberlain's teams 7 times:


1960
Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4, Philadelphia 2
Mar. 16: Wed., Philadelphia 105 at Boston 111
Mar. 18: Fri., Boston 110 at Philadelphia 115
Mar. 19: Sat., Philadelphia 90 at Boston 120
Mar. 20: Sun., Boston 112 at Philadelphia 104
Mar. 22: Tue., Philadelphia 128 at Boston 107
Mar. 24: Thu., Boston 119 at Philadelphia 117

1961 Wilt lost 3-0 to Syracuse (38.4 ppg for the season and 37 during a sweep)

1962 (Wilt averaged 50 ppg for the season, 35 in the playoffs)
Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4, Philadelphia 3
Mar. 24: Sat., Philadelphia 89 at Boston 117
Mar. 27: Tue., Boston 106 at Philadelphia 113
Mar. 28: Wed., Philadelphia 114 at Boston 129
Mar. 31: Sat., Boston 106 at Philadelphia 110
Apr. 1: Sun., Philadelphia 104 at Boston 119
Apr. 3: Tue., Boston 99 at Philadelphia 109
Apr. 5: Thu., Philadelphia 107 at Boston 109

1963 Wilt didn't make the playoffs. (44.8 ppg)

1964
NBA Finals
Boston 4, San Francisco 1
Apr. 18: Sat., San Francisco 96 at Boston 108
Apr. 20: Mon., San Francisco 101 at Boston 124
Apr. 22: Wed., Boston 91 at San Francisco 115
Apr. 24: Fri., Boston 98 at San Francisco 95
Apr. 26: Sun., San Francisco 99 at Boston 105

1965
Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4, Philadelphia 3
Apr. 4: Sun., Philadelphia 98 at Boston 108
Apr. 6: Tue., Boston 103 at Philadelphia 109
Apr. 8: Thu., Philadelphia 94 at Boston 112
Apr. 9: Fri., Boston 131 at Philadelphia *134
Apr. 11: Sun., Philadelphia 108 at Boston 114
Apr. 13: Tue., Boston 106 at Philadelphia 112
Apr. 15: Thu., Philadelphia 109 at Boston 110

1966
Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4, Philadelphia 1
Apr. 3: Sun., Boston 115 at Philadelphia 96
Apr. 6: Wed., Philadelphia 93 at Boston 114
Apr. 7: Thu., Boston 105 at Philadelphia 111
Apr. 10: Sun., Philadelphia 108 at Boston *114
Apr. 12: Tue., Boston 120 at Philadelphia 112

1968
Eastern Division Finals
Boston 4, Philadelphia 3
Apr. 5: Fri., Boston 127 at Philadelphia 118
Apr. 10: Wed., Philadelphia 115 at Boston 106
Apr. 11: Thur., Boston 114 at Philadelphia 122
Apr. 14: Sun., Philadelphia 110 at Boston 105
Apr. 15: Mon., Boston 122 at Philadelphia 104
Apr. 17: Wed., Philadelphia 106 at Boston 114
Apr. 19: Fri., Boston 100 at Philadelphia 96

1969
NBA Finals
Boston 4, Los Angeles 3
Apr. 23: Wed., Boston 118 at Los Angeles 120
Apr. 25: Fri., Boston 112 at Los Angeles 118
Apr. 27: Sun., Los Angeles 105 at Boston 111
Apr. 29: Tue., Los Angeles 88 at Boston 89
May 1: Thu., Boston 104 at Los Angeles 117
May 3: Sat., Los Angeles 90 at Boston 99
May 5; Mon., Boston 108 at Los Angeles 106

Very dominating, Bill Russell that is.

I understand this was some type of comparison between Wilt and Shaq, but I didn't want the fact that neither of which has dominated the league as a career. (Shaq could win more titles and change his current 3 titles)

Playoff results during Shaq's Career
1993
no Shaq

1994
First Round
Indiana 3, Orlando 0
Apr. 28: Thu., Indiana 89 at Orlando 88
Apr. 30: Sat., Indiana 103 at Orlando 101
May 2: Mon., Orlando 86 at Indiana 99

1995 NBA Finals
Houston 4, Orlando 0
June 7: Wed., Houston 120 at Orlando *118
June 9: Fri., Houston 117 at Orlando 106
June 11: Sun., Orlando 103 at Houston 106
June 14: Wed., Orlando 101 at Houston 113


1996
Eastern Conference Finals
Chicago 4, Orlando 0
May 19: Sun., Orlando 83 at Chicago 121
May 21: Tue., Orlando 88 at Chicago 93
May 25: Sat., Chicago 86 at Orlando 67
May 27: Mon., Chicago 106 at Orlando 101

1997
Conference Semifinals
Utah 4, L.A. Lakers 1
May 4: Sun., L.A. Lakers 77 at Utah 93
May 6: Tue., L.A. Lakers 101 at Utah 103
May 8: Thu., Utah 84 at L.A. Lakers 104
May 10: Sat., Utah 110 at L.A. Lakers 95
May 12: Mon., L.A. Lakers 93 at Utah *98

1998
Conference Finals
Utah 4, LA Lakers 0
May 16: Sat., LA Lakers 77 at Utah 112
May 18: Mon., LA Lakers 95 at Utah 99
May 22: Fri., Utah 109 at LA Lakers 98
May 24: Sun., Utah 96 at LA Lakers 92

1999
Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 4, L.A. Lakers 0
May 17: Mon., at San Antonio 87, L.A. Lakers81
May 19: Wed., at San Antonio 79, L.A. Lakers 76
May 22: Sat., San Antonio 103, at L.A. Lakers 91
May 23: Sun., San Antonio 118, at L.A. Lakers 107

2000 NBA Finals
L.A. Lakers 4, Indiana 2

2001 NBA Finals
L.A. Lakers 4, Philadelphia 1

2002 NBA Finals
L.A. Lakers 4, New Jersey 0

2003 Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 4, L.A. Lakers 2
May 5: Mon., L.A. Lakers 82 at San Antonio 87
May 7: Wed., L.A. Lakers 95 at San Antonio 114
May 9: Fri., San Antonio 95 at L.A. Lakers 110
May 11: Sun., San Antonio 95 at L.A. Lakers 99
May 13: Tue., L.A. Lakers 94 at San Antonio 96
May 15: Wed., San Antonio 110 at L.A. Lakers 82



Wilt and Shaq have had about the same domination of the NBA, 3 titles for Shaq in 11 seasons and 2 for Wilt in 14 years.

Both played for the Lakers and managed a combined total of 4 titles for the franchise.

Kareem and Magic won 5 for the Lakers.

Bill Russell
NBA Championships
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968 & 1969

Russell won two consecutive NCAA titles and an Olympic Gold Medal before joining the Celtics in 1957.



From 1955-1969 only in 1957 and 1967 did Russell not finish with a championship. (15 years)

While Wilt was voted to the first team all-league ahead of Russell in 1959 and 1962 by the media, the players granted the MVP to Russell on both occasions.



The Vanishing Center = Wilt Chamberlain

I just felt like pointing this all out, sorry about that.

[Old School Fool]

Dem boys had showed too much leg and muscle