NBL Thread

[The X]

yep, the slow & boring thing is due to fouls & too many timeouts....the fact is, they are right in some aspects....but then again, that's why a lot of people call rugby union boring (although they are admittedly trying to tinker with rules to open up game more to fans)....although when you do play bball, it is actually a very fast paced game....

I guess to each his own....

although I will share a quick story....my wife doesn't really like bball, but that's mostly due to me being obsessed with it....she likes to come watch me play every now & then, but she doesn't want to watch it on TV....so anyways, she suggested we go to Australia-NZ Olympic Qualifying Series game last year in Brisbane, so hearing that, I jumped on the opportunity....although game wasn't of highest quality with series already wrapped up, my wife really had a fun time there, enjoying the intensity & the atmosphere of going to the game....and of course seeing the haka (the only thing she'll watch of a rugby union game) & seeing NZ win (even know she's an Aussie)

after that game, she was like, we'll have to see another bball game soon in the future....she was referring to Brisbane Bullets' game....they are now extinct (much like the Newcastle Falcons)....so I guess that's off the cards unless we want to travel down to Gold Coast to watch the Blaze play, which we probably won't despite their strong Kiwi ties....

even my Mum & step-dad, who will watch the usual "Aussie" sports, went to a few Bullets' games in corporate seating section, & came back very impressed with how much they enjoyed it....

hearing that, I live in hope....

[Andrew]

One of my friends had a similar experience. She's not into basketball but went to a live game and enjoyed it so there's a lot to be said of the atmosphere of live sports as opposed to watching in TV and suffering through commercial breaks.

[Fresh8]

Hmm, if the NBL folds, we're just going to have amatuer leagues and the like and the top players will go and try and ply their trade overseas. A new league might happen but will take a lot of time and planning. I'm just not sure if people will invest in an already tested and failed product. Perhaps it happens when the Aussie National Team has some success, much like the Socceroos and the A-League. I find that Aussies are sorta 'bandwagon' fans. Back in 2000, soccer was a pansy sport according to jocks. And come 2006, soccer is in.

I think that if the legaue were to take the risk of getting the sport on Free to Air, it would actually help the league. The question is whether they can sustain the losses for the first few years in order to create the interest it needs to survive in the future. And perhaps increasing the number of imports per team or creating an association with Asian leagues and sending teams into an Asian Champions League type comp might spark interest too.

I guess there's a lot of things they could do and a lot of options might even need to be done on a continental basis.

Perhaps the basketball 'board' that needs to figure out how to save basketball in Australia (but as you guys have said; its not dying, interest is high here but its just the national league is shit) will take the A-league as a blueprint for the NBL...

Was basketball popular in the 90s due to the national team's success and having a player of Andrew Gaze's stature? Perhaps thats why people are excited about Patty Mills! It's sad that we got a talent like Bogut and noone cares but i guess people like guards because they are more 'exciting' to watch... so perhaps the future of basketball isn't at risk. I just don't want the NBL to die out!

[Andrew]

Hmm, if the NBL folds, we're just going to have amatuer leagues and the like and the top players will go and try and ply their trade overseas. A new league might happen but will take a lot of time and planning. I'm just not sure if people will invest in an already tested and failed product. Perhaps it happens when the Aussie National Team has some success, much like the Socceroos and the A-League.

It would be difficult to get the funding for a new league but it depends whether the league folds because it's in complete ruin or so they can retool and relaunch it, much like the situation with the old NSL and A-League.

I find that Aussies are sorta 'bandwagon' fans. Back in 2000, soccer was a pansy sport according to jocks. And come 2006, soccer is in.

I agree wholeheartedly and it bothers me. I've heard people call basketball "un-Australian" but the way we approach sports sometimes and bandwagon sports we happen to be doing well at on an international level seems a bit un-Australian to me.

Was basketball popular in the 90s due to the national team's success and having a player of Andrew Gaze's stature? Perhaps thats why people are excited about Patty Mills! It's sad that we got a talent like Bogut and noone cares but i guess people like guards because they are more 'exciting' to watch... so perhaps the future of basketball isn't at risk. I just don't want the NBL to die out!

I think the NBA's rising global popularity and Michael Jordan were big reasons. Look at what happened after Jordan's last season with the Bulls. The lockout alienated a lot of fans and the 98/99 season was the last to be shown on free to air. Apparel, videos and magazines became scarce, forcing the hardcore fans to really look for basketball merchandise. If you want an NBA DVD these days, your best bet is to have a multizone player and buy an imported one off eBay or order it in yourself from somewhere like Amazon.

In a weird way, I think the NBL's popularity was tied to the NBA's here in Australia simply because people were excited about basketball and that excitement extended to the local product. Basketball was big and people may have preferred the NBA but with it being so far away, got their live fix from the NBL and of course played in local leagues, video games and watched whatever was available on TV. That's why I think if the NBA becomes more accessible to people without Foxtel, it might also help increase interest in the local product simply because people are hooked on hoops.

The NBL then has to do a better job of marketing itself as a serious sports league. I know the whole "fun night out with a game of basketball thrown in" is meant to bring in the casual fans but the game should be hyped as the main event. By all means hype it as fun family night out but stress it's because these are the best basketball players in Australia, call it a "fun night of exciting basketball action" or something like that. Let it be known this is a professional sports league, not some kind of travelling circus.

It wouldn't hurt to have at least one team in every state if possible, just so people from around all around the country have a team to claim even if they're not close to where it's situated. If Hobart has a team then Tasmania has a team and so on. I expect New South Wales, Queensland and Victoria will field multiple teams but if a couple of other states have more than one team in the league, so much the better.

Getting the money to keep all the teams and the league running is easier said than done, I don't have any magical solutions in that regard. Perhaps modelling the league on one of the more successful pro sports leagues would be prudent here, much like the BAA/NBA took its cues from hockey when it was getting started. Perhaps teams need to be franchised with groups of investors owning the teams, though that will need to be profitable for there to be much interest in that.

Make sure the players are involved in the community. Back in the mid 90s, I remember some of the Falcons came to my primary school and held a bit of a mini basketball clinic. That kind of stuff could help get kids into the game, expanding the fanbase and encouraging kids to start playing the sport, something they might one day do professionally. With fan support there'll also be more steady revenue.

It's all easier said than done but if any of the officials are serious about basketball in this country, these are the kinds of things they need to be doing. Letting teams fold, keeping the league away from rabid fans (and potential rabid fans) with fewer teams and no free to air coverage isn't going to get the job done.

[Fresh8]

When the NBL champions of just two seasons ago and the champions of half of this current decade are out of the comp so suddenly; it shows that the NBL is in great danger. Whatever reason the NBL gives, saying that this is not an issue, that's absolutely ignorant of the situation!

I think one main problem is this.

I've met a lot of people who play basketball. You get people who play because they are good at it but don't follow it at all. It's only a hobby/past time. Then you get guys who love to play it but don't follow it. So there's two different levels there.

Then you have the casual fans who say they follow the NBA but don't really know much about it. Then you have the hardcore fans who do follow it as closely as they can with the little coverage they get here. There's two different levels here.

So as you can see, there's two different types of people involved with basketball and there's two different 'standards' at which they follow. The key thing is that you have basketball and NBA fans but no one cares about the NBL. I have not met anyone who is passionate about an NBL club. Perhaps this is different in other states as QLD is dominated by League (I must admit I would consider myself a bigger Broncos fan than I was a Bullets fan. I only went to Bullets games so I had somewhere to go out to when I was in high school with guys who also liked basketball. I would not say I was passionate about it at all)...

And that's the issue. Many people like basketball on different levels. Many like the NBA on different levels. But no one I have met, would I classify as an 'NBL' fan.

[Jing]

No more Slingers right?

[CMJ3]

Nope they gone apparently because of rising fuel costs they couldnt keep operating. Me and my friends constantly discuss basketball in Australia and its future. Like Andrew said a Cinderella run at the Olympics would be a good booster for the sport, the only problem i see with that though is the lack of coverage Basketball will receive here in Australia.

On another note it seems as if the NRL are struggling too and the whole Sonny Bill Williams saga is affecting them in a big way. Maybe Australian Sports are just doomed unless its not AFL or Cricket....?

[The X]

Cricket is under threat by IPL....after the terrible World Cup & the lack of interest outside Australia, the sub-continent & maybe South Africa & England, that's it....IPL will grow & Aussie ranks will slowly subsides....which is a good thing for NBL, as that operates in summer....

I think Aussie Rules is only "safe" pro sport here, as there is no real alternative to it around the World....your players won't be poached by other football codes or by overseas clubs with more money to offer (outside of odd kicker going to NFL)....

[Andrew]

I think the NRL will bounce back though, league is still pretty popular as a spectator sport. Cricket should be relatively safe because it's become such an Australian tradition and we're pretty successful in international competition. I'd agree that Aussie Rules is the safest though given the ratings and crowds they draw and the lack of alternatives around the world.

Sit brings up an interesting point about the different people who are interested in basketball. A lot of the guys I played with in the local junior league back in the day were pretty enthusiastic about playing but I don't think they followed the NBA or NBL all that closely, if at all. There are some people who aren't nearly as interested in watching sports as playing them so that is another challenge.

But they're still a potential audience; if you've got pro teams running camps and coming to schools for mini clinics and maybe giving out some free tickets (or having them partially covered by some fees), kids who are interested in playing the game may also get hooked on watching it if given the opportunity and the fanbase grows.

[The X]

I was actually thinking about that today, mini camps that is....I remember back in the day, guys like Shane Heal & Simon (or was it Brian, I dunno) Kerle had annual mini-camps....unfortunately I could never go to them as my Dad couldn't afford it....then again, I couldn't afford to play club basketball so it wasn't a big surprise, only high school basketball as that was free....they do need that....players going around the communities growing the game....it seems like they don't even care about growing the game anymore in Oz....seems like they've taken the attitude that they can't compete with the big boys & will just play for the scraps....such is life....

[Andrew]

The way NBL clubs are dropping, you have to wonder if that's the prevailing attitude.

[Fresh8]

Me and my friends constantly discuss basketball in Australia and its future. Like Andrew said a Cinderella run at the Olympics would be a good booster for the sport, the only problem i see with that though is the lack of coverage Basketball will receive here in Australia.

Basketball received a lot of coverage at the Sydney and Athens games and for Beijing, it will also been shown a lot on TV. Coverage isn't a problem.

I think if coverage were a problem, it would be after the games are done. The bringing bball to Channel 9 was ridiculous. Who in their right mind watches highlights at 11 am on a Sunday morning? At least put it in a decent timeslot if you're not going to show the whole game! I was really really disappointed with that venture!

I think that NRL is fine. The Sonny Bill thing is going to be a one-off and once he is banned from playing League forever, players will think twice about doing what he did. As for other players going overseas legitamately, I think it's only good. Much like the NBA having guys crossing over to Europe; it's a signal of 'globalisation.' In this case, sort of marginalised but it's still good for the game. The playing stock in Australia is apparantly still strong and the NRL as a product still lives on. Not to mention that where it is biggest (NSW and QLD); NRL is still a profitable product to sell to people. State of Origin is still huge up here in QLD in my opinion. Not sure about NSW though.

I guess all sports go through an 'in' phase and an 'out' phase. No one cares about Union anymore but with the national side being young and having potential, it will probably be 'in' again in a few years. Sports that are part of 'Aussie' tradition are so engraved in that position that they don't simply become 'doomed' when they are 'out of fashion.' It's a shame that sports like basketball do. And there's not much we can do about it.

I was actually thinking about that today, mini camps that is....I remember back in the day, guys like Shane Heal & Simon (or was it Brian, I dunno) Kerle had annual mini-camps....unfortunately I could never go to them as my Dad couldn't afford it....then again, I couldn't afford to play club basketball so it wasn't a big surprise, only high school basketball as that was free....they do need that....players going around the communities growing the game....it seems like they don't even care about growing the game anymore in Oz....seems like they've taken the attitude that they can't compete with the big boys & will just play for the scraps....such is life....

To elaborate on that, unless you are the 'cream of the crop' in your age group, you're not going to have an active part in the 'basketball system.' (Perhaps another reason why the depth of our basketball talent is so limited?) I think in order to make something popular, you need to have a 'culture.' You need to make guys love and have a passion for it.

If in Australia, we had say high school competitions and had more tournaments and the like, it would make it so much better. You would have kids living and breathing basketball!

Not only do you have a better high school competition than what is offered now, you have tournaments inviting the top schools from each area. Perhaps have private and public schools play against eachother? this way, you can also encourage camps and the like. People play club but club basketball is not that great and it costs a lot of money. Somehow make school basketball bigger than club basketball and suddenly you make it a lot easier for everyone to get involved! Not only do people who can't afford club are able to play but other people can watch and learn about basketball whilst supporting their schools! So you are building up the playing pool and also making others aware that the sport exists!

But perhaps it's a culture issue!

Aussies 'love' their sport. But we lack what I think Americans have: pride in their school - who they are representing. I find that schools, whether it's high school or universities, don't have any 'pride.' No one cares about represetning their schools. This is across all sports IMO. You see in America, young athletes are so celebrated, yet here, there's none of that.

So there are many intertwined issues here. None of it will be fixed any time soon but maybe when we are older and when we have kids, it will be a different system.

[The X]

Rugby league has been stealing players from rugby union for 100 years & the tide has only recently turned, so they shouldn't complain. As for Sonny Bill, he won't be banned from playing league again. I'm sure if it doesn't work out with rugby union, he can go player Super League in UK & make more money than he did for Bulldogs. Of course I can't condone how he went about it by being underhanded & leaving team in middle of season, rather than facing up to it like a man.

State of Origin hasn't been good for a number of years. The passion is gone. It was great in '90's though. But I know league will continue to prosper, at least in parts.

I'm surprised you like the Broncos Sit. The way they showed Petro the door, only to sign some nugget for more money.

Ahh well, I use to play & like league, but don't waste my time with it anymore....

As for union, nobody in Australia really cared about it anyways....over here, it's considered an elitist game (I don't why though), where as in NZ it doesn't matter if you go to public or private school, you play it....with new rules being introduced, game i less of a kick fest & more open & entertaining play, so there is a solid future for it....I guess if Australia beat All Blacks tomorrow night, the bandwagon will be in full force

Sit, you are right on Aussie sports fans being bandwagoners though. But that is in the country's nation. Support winners, accept nothing less. Us Kiwis, we're use to losing (like the Poms), so less bandwagoning (but nonetheless, still some).

[Fresh8]

As for Sonny Bill, he won't be banned from playing league again. I'm sure if it doesn't work out with rugby union, he can go player Super League in UK & make more money than he did for Bulldogs. Of course I can't condone how he went about it by being underhanded & leaving team in middle of season, rather than facing up to it like a man

Sonny Bill is going to get his ass raped in court. Breaching contract means he will have to do something to make up for it. I guess he will probably have to pay back compo and also be banned from NRL for life. So yeah, rephrased, he won't ever be playing NRL again.

State of Origin hasn't been good for a number of years. The passion is gone. It was great in '90's though. But I know league will continue to prosper, at least in parts

I can't remember Origin in the 90s because I didn't follow it back then. I've only started following since my ex-gf introduced it to me and taught me about the sport. But from what I can feel, it is still an event enjoyed by many. I will take your word for it that the passion is gone. But I still enjoy as do many others; I don't think it will die out.

I'm surprised you like the Broncos Sit. The way they showed Petro the door, only to sign some nugget for more money.

I was very disappointed Petro was shown the door. That day was very sad and I can't believed they couldn't have just given him what he wanted. Talk about team loyalty! Still, I support and follow the Broncos due to them being the hometown team. Plus I support the Bunnies just because they suck a lot!

As for union, nobody in Australia really cared about it anyways....over here, it's considered an elitist game (I don't why though), where as in NZ it doesn't matter if you go to public or private school, you play it....with new rules being introduced, game i less of a kick fest & more open & entertaining play, so there is a solid future for it....I guess if Australia beat All Blacks tomorrow night, the bandwagon will be in full force

Perhaps going to a private school that had a tradition in Union (not anymore since PNG boarders stopped going to school there), Union was huge. And the school we played against, Marist, was a school with traiditon in Union. In early 2000s, I thought it was big. People followed it but once Wallabies weren't as good as they used to be, everyone shifted their focus on other sports... with Soccer becoming big due to Socceroos...

[Andrew]

Not to get too offtopic but the Sonny Bill situation is interesting since some legal eagles reckon he might have a legit case against the NRL as far as the salary cap limiting his earning potential. As I understand it, there's no agreement between the league and the players such as the one the NBA has with the player's union, so odd as it seems from a legal standpoint, he could be successful. Of course, he still breached his contract so if the league is at fault in any way in the black and white of the law, he should be too.

[Fresh8]

some legal eagles reckon he might have a legit case against the NRL as far as the salary cap limiting his earning potential.

Sonny Bill's potential earning capacity does not have anything to do with his breach of contract. If there was a 'clause' or some kind of term associated with the contract that implies or states that Sonny Bill could walk away from his contract and switch to another code because he could earn more; he would be successful. My understanding is that there's no such thing in his contract that would even imply that - he had no kind of 'opt-out' clause.

Whoever gave him 'legal' advice gave him shit advice because now he will probably be banned for life from the NRL and will be liable to pay compensation. If he's playing for that French club for the same ammount of money, it looks like he's going to have to pay his earnings back to Canterbury for a while. I'm not sure how he will be punished and how much he will need to reimburse Canterbury. It will be interesting indeed.

[Andrew]

I know that, but from what I understand he's countersued the NRL because he claims that the salary cap limits his earning potential and supposedly there's a possible legal precedent for it, though it's ridiculous to apply it to a professional sports league where salary caps are commonplace.

[Fresh8]

That's a strange case which I should probably check up on. I very much doubt there is a precedent on it. And yes, it sounds very ridiculous!

[Andrew]

There's no precedent in sports but apparently there's a possibility he might have a case. I can't see how but that's what I've heard.

[Fresh8]

Depends on the precedent. I very much doubt he has a case. At the end of the day, Sonny Bill and his reps knew that he would never play League in Australia again. I think that he probably believes he can make the All Blacks for the Union World Cup and if he does, all of this fiasco he's caused will be all worth it. He's not going to get out of reimbursing the NRL financially.

Anyways, getting back on topic guys!

I don't have much else to add to the discussion on the NBL. I am just really disappointed that foundation club Brisbane and Sydney (I don't think the Kings are a foundation club though) aren't in it anymore and that the Slingers, whom I was interested in seeing in action, aren't either. Oh well.

[The X]

Source: http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,865 ... 14,00.html

"Our problem is: Is Williams under contract with another rugby union side? The answer is no. Therefore he's free to join with whoever he wants, he doesn't need a letter to leave."

classic

I'd like to see him get his wish to play rugby....I can see him having to pay compensation to the Bulldogs, but I still think he'll be able to play....for me, telling a rugby league player they can't break their contract to play rugby union is like telling them they can't break it to play soccer or tennis or to become a plumber or carpenter....I can understand forbidding a rugby league player to play for another rugby league team, but not a completely different sport....

so yes, he should have to pay some compensation for breaking contract, but that's as far as I want to see it go....hopefully it opens the door for a lot more league players to bolt....although I think that revolving door will be closed with new wording in contracts....

[Andrew]

Depends on the precedent. I very much doubt he has a case.

I would have thought so too but I heard there might be some loophole, some law that was applicable even though it's ridiculous that it would in a professional sports league that has a salary cap. Perhaps the legal eagles who suggested it had merit are wrong, like I said I'm just saying what I heard. It sounds farfetched to me but when it comes to the courts you never know.

I'd like to see him get his wish to play rugby....I can see him having to pay compensation to the Bulldogs, but I still think he'll be able to play....for me, telling a rugby league player they can't break their contract to play rugby union is like telling them they can't break it to play soccer or tennis or to become a plumber or carpenter....I can understand forbidding a rugby league player to play for another rugby league team, but not a completely different sport....

The two codes do compete for talent though, so if nothing else it's a sore point with rugby league. I think the more important point however is that it is a contract, with obligations that must be fulfilled. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to the NRL but I'm guessing there are channels you need to go through to break a contract rather than just saying "I quit" or refusing to report.

[Fresh8]

Has anyone been keeping tabs on the NBL this season?

I'm loving how the teams are more evenly matched this season (Apart from the Blaze who are winless... and don't think the Hawks are doing too good either).

Melbourne, Dragons, Taipans, Breakers have all got decent rosters. The Sydney Spirit, Perth Wildcats and 36ers look solid as well.

Bad news though regarding Stephen Black who might need to call it quits depending on his back and what a doctor might tell him in the very near future. I like Black, especially when he was in Brisbane with the Bullets.

[The X]

My Dad told me NZ Breakers are top of ladder....doesn't surprise me as they picked up a few Bullets' players (Bruton, Boucher etc)....I couldn't care less for national league or national body....

[Andrew]

That shows you how out of touch I am with the NBL these days, I hadn't even realised that the season had started. In the past I've annually vowed to take a greater interest in the NBL but I've never been able to follow through with Newcastle having lost two teams within the last decade and so many other teams folding.