The awards thread

[benji]

To the Hedo fans...is getting more assists because you have better teammates really deserving of "Most Improved Player"?

[Cartar]

MVP:

LeBron James - Has had an amazing season with about 30-8-7-2-1, if Cavs record goes down, then Kobe, Paul or KG.

ROY:

Kevin Durant - I think Al Horford is having also good season, but I like Durant better and if he keeps shooting better then he will get it.

MIP:

Chris Kaman - With Brand and Livingston down, has really stepped up and led the team, especially at start of the season. (other choices: Salmons, Turkoglu, Jefferson)

6th man:

Manu Ginobili - Same, that I have to agree what Jae said, but still Gordon has played even more minutes than Manu. Although I don´t like it, but I think he will get it. (Others: Outlaw, Gordon, Thornton, Barbosa)

DPOY:

Marcus Camby - Same as last year, this year is even better imo(3,7BPG is pretty sick). (Others: Paul)

COY:

Byron Scott - From last years PO leftoff to practically leading position in very hard West this year. Same material, only not that injured. (Others: Adelman and Rivers)

Executive:

Danny Ainge - Making C´s again a Championship contender, just that.

[L10]

6th Man - No vote

I know everyone's going for Ginobili but we all know he's not a bench player... he comes off the bench, fine, but he also plays starter minutes and has started for stretches of the season.

i agree with u in this, but one of the reasons of manu playing as a starter has been the injuries tony and tim has suffered, so it will be unfair if manu doesnt win this award cus playing off the bench his stats are better than any other player.

The Spurs are cheating to try and win this award, those sons of bitches.

lol

[Cartar]

Also forgot to add T.J. Ford for 6th man, if he would´ve have played more games

[Andrew]

The wording of the original post makes it a bit ambiguous as to whether this thread is calling for predictions on who will win or who should win, so I'll post my opinions on both.

Most Valuable Player

Who Should: LeBron James
Who Will: Kobe Bryant

I'd give the MVP to LeBron James this season, even if his team's record seems to work against him. Hypotheticals don't prove anything as they're not guaranteed to be accurate but the Cavs' 0-7 record without LeBron demonstrates his importance to the team's success. Beyond that, he's got the impressive stats and clutch performances to his name this year. That said, I think voters will go with Kobe Bryant because of the Lakers' improvement in the standings.

Rookie of the Year

Who Should: Kevin Durant
Who Will: Kevin Durant

The Sonics' record shouldn't be a factor here. After all, the best rookies are often lottery picks which usually means they go to one of the worst teams in the league and leading said teams out of the basement is a lofty goal in the first year. Al Horford is a shade under averaging a double-double and there's other rookies having solid freshman campaigns but I still think it's Durant hands down.

Most Improved Player

Who Should: Chris Kaman
Who Will: Chris Kaman

It may be a misleading award that ignores the fact most winners are seeing increased minutes compared to the previous season, but given the criteria used to select this award Kaman would be my choice and pick to win. He has missed a lot of games though so that might work against him if he ends up being out of sight, out of mind, but I'll stick with him as my pick.

Sixth Man of the Year

Who Should: Incomplete
Who Will: Manu Ginobili

At the end of the day, even if he starts the remaining 12 games for the Spurs Ginobili will meet the requirements and criteria for Sixth Man of the Year; good numbers off the bench, starting less than half the game he's played in (but only just). A good sixth man can be a starter quality player so that shouldn't disqualify Ginobili but I agree there's something not quite right about it, especially if he ends up starting over 30 games on the year. I'll stick pick him to win it though. No alternatives come to mind. Jason Terry is a candidate I guess, but he's kind of in the same situation.

Defensive Player of the Year

Who Should: Marcus Camby
Who Will: Marcus Camby

I think this will be Camby's year. He's averaging just under four blocks a game with 13.5 rebounds and a steal for good measure. Those aren't the be-all, end-all measure of a defensive player of course but they're suitably attention-grabbing.

Coach of the Year

Who Should: Nate McMillan
Who Will: Byron Scott

The Hornets are having a fine season but aside from Scott's coaching, they're helped by Paul's continued development, West's good year and Stojakovic being healthy. That's not to say Scott is completely undeserving of the award and can't take any credit but the Blazers had been written off as a lottery team the moment it was announced Greg Oden's NBA debut would be delayed until next season, yet McMillan's team is above .500 and if not for the lopsided Western playoff picture, would be in contention for the eighth seed right now. Scott would be a good choice, but I'd like to see McMillan get some recognition for what the Blazers have done.

Executive of the Year

Who Should: Danny Ainge
Who Will: Danny Ainge

The Celtics have the best record in the NBA, are primed to make a strong run at winning it all and have turned a gloomy situation into a very positive one. Enough said.

[CP3-CB4]

MVP: LeBron James
Rookie of the year: Kevin Durant
Most improved: Beno Udrih
6th Man: Manu Ginobili
Defensive player: Marcus Camby

[grusom]

To the Hedo fans...is getting more assists because you have better teammates really deserving of "Most Improved Player"?

I haven't got any stats to back this up (so feel free to correct/enlighten me if you can), but it seems like Hedo has played a big role in Dwight Howard's transformation to a superstar this season - He is really good at finding Howard around the basket, especially with lob passes (and Howard seems a lot more comfortable with lob- than bounce passes). Taking your all-star teammate to a superstar level is worth a lot in my book, and based on the Magic games I've seen this season, that's just what Hedo has done.

[shadowgrin]

He is really good at finding Howard around the basket, especially with lob passes (and Howard seems a lot more comfortable with lob- than bounce passes).

All big men prefer lob passes. It's even fundamentally sound to lob passes to big men because they can easily catch it than a bounce pass which has a higher chance of being stolen by a smaller defender.

Hedo might be good at finding Howard but Howard still does 2/3 of the work by positioning properly then scoring after Hedo does the 1/3 of the job, which is finding Howard.

[Oznogrd]

Does no one but me remember Hedo as pretty damn good on the Kings that year with Webber, Miller, Bibby and Christie? I'm looking at stats right now that i guess dont really tell the story the way i remember it, but i wonder how much his increased playing time with more trustable options (howard>Webber) isnt so much him improving as what benji said his team being better.

[artestfighttrainer]

MVP: Whoever has the better team record, CP3 or Kobe
ROY: Durant based on stats
6th Man: GINO-BILLI!
MIP: Hedo Turkoglu
DPOY: Camby Man

[Martti.]

MVP - Chris Paul.
DPOY - Marcus Camby.
MIP - Chris Kaman.
ROY - Kevin Durant.
6th man - Manu Ginobili.
COY - Byron Scott.
Executive - Danny Ainge.

[BOSS]

MVP : Kobe Bryant or Chris Paul
( If I had to choose, I'd choose the player which leads their team into 1st place in the Western Conference. )
Honorable Mention : LeBron James

DPOY : Marcus Camby
Honorable Mention : Josh Smith

MIP : Hedo Turkoglu
Honorable Mention : Chris Kaman

ROY : Kevin Durant
Honorable Mention : Al Horford

6th Man : Ben Gordon
Honorable Mention : Leandro Barbosa

COY : Byron Scott
Honorable Mention : Doc Rivers

EOY : Danny Ainge
Honorable Mention : Kevin Pritchard

[CMJ3]

MVP: Kobe Bryant
Rookie of the year: Kevin Durant
Most improved: Hedo Turkoglu
6th Man: Manu Ginobili
Defensive player: Marcus Camby

[benji]

Only in the NBA can a player be having a worse offensive season than, and an overall season practically the same, as two years prior and be considered "Most Improved" in the league simply because he's shooting more often and on a winning team. While creating theories to give him all the credit for the development of a 22 year old he's played with for four straight years.

Where stupid memes happen.

( If I had to choose, I'd choose the player which leads their team into 1st place in the Western Conference. )

What if it's the Spurs...or Suns...or Rockets?

[Matt]

I don't know how much Hedo has improved but, it can't be argued that he's taken up a bigger role on the Magic. He often brings the ball up court, initiates offense, gets more scoring opportunities, and takes the big shots.

Credit Ron Jeremy for the changes....the Magic court spacing is much improved this season.

[benji]

Yes, yes, you're an expert on everyone. None of that has anything to do with "Most Improved Player."

Everyone seems to be unable to read and be arguing against some strawman that Turkoglu is not a good player, instead of the actual question of: how in the hell is he the "Most Improved Player" in the league this season?

[Indy]

MVP
Should Win: Kobe Bryant
Will Win: Kobe Bryant
Kobe has never won an MVP and he's been the best player in the league for three or four years now. You couldn't ask for him to do anything differently then he has since the Pau trade. He has handled himself beautifully all season. Facilitating when needed and taking over when that is called for. Best season of Kobe's career in my opinion.

Coach of the Year:
Should Win: Flip Saunders
Will Win: Rick Adleman
Flip is sort of my surprise pick here. I think this is a Pistons team that was closer to falling apart then people realize. Losing to Cleveland last year could have been franchise crushing after the success this team has had the last few years but they rebounded better then I could have ever expected. This seemed like a team on the way down but Flip has done an outstanding job not keeping them elite. Adleman will win because of how well the Rockets have played without Yao, and he is deserving of a lot of credit, but I don't think what he's done is as impressive as Flip.

Most Improved:
Should Win: Mike Dunleavy
Will Win: Chris Kaman
Earlier in the year I thought it was silly to proclaim Dunleavy as an MIP candidate, but he has continued to get better all year long and is now a threat to score 30 any night. He's become the focus of every teams defense every night and yet he's still managed to net career highs in every important statistical category. He's doing it shooting nearly 50 percent from the field and over 40 percent from three. He's had an all-star caliber season this year but not many have noticed.

Kaman has had a great year too, obviously he's benifited personally from the lack of Elton Brand as the team flounders. He actually sort of hit a wall half-way through the season and didn't dominate the way he had been earlier. We'll definitley see a decline from Kaman to about where he was before when Brand gets back next season.

Rookie:
Should Win: Kevin Durant
Will Win: Kevin Durant
I like that Al Horford is getting some respect, but this isn't a team award it is an individual award. So what if Durants team has struggled he's the best player on his team and is scoring over 20 a game. It isn't his fault they play in the West. If Seattle was in the East they probably wouldn't be that many games behind Atlanta and we wouldn't have this argument about Durant vs. Horford.

Executive:
Should Win: Danny Ainge (Celtics)
Will Win: Ainge
This one is pretty obvious.

I refuse to vote 6th man or DPOY. Camby deserves Defensive Player this year but he won it in a total sham last year so I won't vote for him to win 2 in a row.

Sixth man is a total joke.

[benji]

He's had an all-star caliber season this year but not many have noticed.

Probably because people consider All-Stars to be great players, often in the top 12-15 players of their conference. Career-highs other than shooting? He's rebounding the worst of his career, tied his career high on assisting, and having his second worst year on steals. He's even had years with more blocks and fewer turnovers.

Even if I was living in the stone age and using per game stats, he's still had seasons with more rebounds and fewer turnovers.

Best season of Kobe's career in my opinion.

What about 05-06, when he shot 56% (vs. 57% this season) while having only 9% turnovers (vs. 12% this season), all while assisting on the same % of the Lakers baskets (24%)? Or 06-07, when he shot 58%, with 11% turnovers and 25.5% assisted?

I won't comment further on the "best player in the league" thing.

For the 6th Man haters, what if we gave it to the player who played the sixth-most (or less) minutes on the team, instead of simply the guy who didn't start half the games? I'm pretty sure this would disqualify Gordon and Ginobili.

[Indy]

He's rebounding the worst of his career, tied his career high on assisting, and having his second worst year on steals. He's even had years with more blocks and fewer turnovers.

He's having his second best rebounding season while playing shooting guard all year long. He's having easily his best year assisting and second best year in steals. I have no idea where you get your numbers.

Career highs in field goal percentage (by a lot), three point percentage (by a WHOLE lot), points per game (by a lot) and free throw percentage. He's already posted highs in total assists, three pointers made and free throws made and he is well on his way to eclipsing his highest rebounding total.

He's reached 36 points this season 4 times, and been over 30 ten times this year, more then double his 30 point games in all his seasons before this one.

Richard Hamilton is widely considered an all-star player and Dunleavy is better then him in almost every statistical category.

What about 05-06, when he shot 56% (vs. 57% this season) while having only 9% turnovers (vs. 12% this season), all while assisting on the same % of the Lakers baskets (24%)? Or 06-07, when he shot 58%, with 11% turnovers and 25.5% assisted?

He's been more of a floor general this year on both ends of the floor. You can see the maturity of Kobe as a player this year. He is a much better decision maker then he's ever been and its lead to more Ws then any other version of Kobe would have brought to this team.

You point out seasons when he's had very slightly better statistical years but the Lakers were a fringe playoff team in a weaker Western Conference then. Now they are a competitor in the toughest conference we've seen at least since Kobe has been in the NBA and its thanks to Kobe playing the best ball of his career.

For the 6th Man haters, what if we gave it to the player who played the sixth-most (or less) minutes on the team, instead of simply the guy who didn't start half the games? I'm pretty sure this would disqualify Gordon and Ginobili.

I was going to say that.

[benji]

Now they are a competitor in the toughest conference we've seen at least since Kobe has been in the NBA and its thanks to Kobe playing the best ball of his career.

Kobe is the same. The rest of the team is better. If we looked beyond media generated memes, we'd realize it.

He's having his second best rebounding season while playing shooting guard all year long. He's having easily his best year assisting and second best year in steals. I have no idea where you get your numbers.

From reality.

Code: Select all

Dunleavy0708: 8.1% reb, 16.1% ast, 1.4% stl

Dunleavy0203: 8.7% reb, 12.6% ast, 2.1% stl
Dunleavy0304: 10.7%reb, 16.1% ast, 1.6% stl
Dunleavy0405: 9.2% reb, 13.1% ast, 1.6% stl
Dunleavy0506: 8.6% reb, 15.0% ast, 1.2% stl
Dunleavy0607: 9.4% reb, 14.2% ast, 1.6% stl

MikeDunleavy: 9.1% reb, 14.7% ast, 1.5% stl

Dunleavy07GS: 9.8% reb, 16.7% ast, 1.8% stl
Dunleavy07IN: 9.2% reb, 12.4% ast, 1.6% stl

I did not contend Dunleavy's stellar shooting performance this season.

Richard Hamilton is widely considered an all-star player and Dunleavy is better then him in almost every statistical category.

This is dependent on those doing the considering being correct about Hamilton being an all-star (or to be more accurate, a top 12 player in his conference).

[Lamrock]

Okay; my final, and most comprehensive Awards post.

Most Valuable Player:
Will Win: Kobe Bryant
Should Win: Chris Paul
Kobe has had this award locked up for a while now (unless the Lakers being dogshit these past few games does him in). However; my vote would be for Chris Paul. Paul has averaged amazing stats, arguably being THE reason David West has been an all-star this season. Additionally; his Hornets are tops in the ridiculously tough Western conference. Granted, LeBron's numbers are better in every category but steals and assists, but my vote would go to CP3.
Vote Distribution: 1. Paul; 2. James; 3. Bryant; 4. Howard; 5. McGrady

Coach of the Year:
Will Win: Rick Adelman
Should Win: Rick Adelman
Adelman led his team to the second longest streak in NBA history without their team's best big man, and arguably second best player. After Yao's injury, we didn't expect them to make the playoffs; yet they are still in the upper echelon in the West. Additionally, the streak is a great feel-good story.
Vote Distribution: 1. Adleman; 2. Scott; 3. Rivers; 4. Cheeks; 5. McMillan

Rookie of the Year:
Will Win: Kevin Durant
Should Win: Al Horford
Kevin Durant will win ROY. We have pretty much known that since June. Thats not to say he deserves it though. Save for the month of March (undoubtedly a Rookie of the Month performance there), Durant has essentially been a skinny Antoine Walker; chucking shots at will. He will win on his 20 PPG and name recognition alone. Meanwhile, Al Horford is posting a double-double for a team that is about to make the playoffs for the first time in 9 years. Granted Horford has a stronger team behind him, and is in the East. But don't forget that Horford is significantly more efficient than Durant, and is playing out of position. KD may have it in the bag, but Horford gets my vote; and I live in Seattle.
Vote Distribution: 1. Horford; 2. Scola; 3. Durant; 4. Young; 5. Thornton

Defensive Player of the Year:
Will Win: Marcus Camby
Should Win: Marcus Camby
The numbers speak for themselves I suppose. Also, the Nuggets would be giving up 168 against the Sonics without him. Not much to say about this award.
Vote Distribution: 1. Camby; 2. Battier; 3. Chandler; 4. Smith; 5. Paul

Sixth Man of the Year:
Will Win: Manu Ginobili
Should Win: Manu Ginobili
Shit award.
Vote Distribution: 1. Ginobili; 2. Gordon; 3. Barbosa; 4. Terry; 5. Outlaw

Most Improved:
Will Win: LaMarcus Aldridge
Should Win: Monta Ellis
Major sleepers in both categories. I see Aldridge winning because of his per game improvement, and the Blazers success. (possibly a consolation prize for not giving Nate COY) Meanwhile, I select Ellis, a guy who won't even get a single vote, as he has more improvement statistically than any of the major "candidates" by quite a bit actually. He shouldn't have won last year, but he should have this year. Very tough decision.
Vote Distribution: 1. Ellis; 2. Kaman; 3. Bynum; 4. Brewer; 5. Turkoglu

Executive of the Year:
Will Win: Danny Ainge
Should Win: Danny Ainge
Boston went from second to worst to best, because of two huge trades (and a few signings).
Vote Distribution: 1. Ainge; 2. Kupchak; 3. Presti

All done... Just my opinions...

[Andrew]

Good call on Aldridge, I completely forgot about him. Monta Ellis presents an interesting situation too though the fact he won the award last year pretty much rules him out, right or wrong.

[benji]

arguably being THE reason David West has been an all-star this season.

Only if the argument is bad.

The reason West made the all-star team is because the Hornets were good, so they "deserved" a second player.

Somehow I doubt Paul's dominant season is causing West to get more defensive rebounds and block more shots. The only change from last season. (Or the season before...)

The numbers speak for themselves I suppose. Also, the Nuggets would be giving up 168 against the Sonics without him. Not much to say about this award.

Would they...sure, we can give Camby all of the credit if we so desire, but the Nuggets haven't had a bad defensive team since 2002. Meanwhile, we have a Boston team that shot from 16th to 1st by a large margin...and Ray Allen wasn't their big defensive offseason addition...

The problem I have with both LaMarcus Aldridge and Monta Ellis, is that second and third year players are supposed to improve. Ideally, it would be "MIP who has three plus years experience and is under age 28."

[Lamrock]

arguably being THE reason David West has been an all-star this season.

Only if the argument is bad.

The reason West made the all-star team is because the Hornets were good, so they "deserved" a second player.

Somehow I doubt Paul's dominant season is causing West to get more defensive rebounds and block more shots. The only change from last season. (Or the season before...)

Well, they are good because of Paul. Also though, I don't have any statistical proof, but don't forget that the year West became good, and almost won MIP (2006) was Paul's first year in the NBA. Having a PG like Paul makes scoring a lot easier. I doubt West's stats quite as good without CP3 at least.

The numbers speak for themselves I suppose. Also, the Nuggets would be giving up 168 against the Sonics without him. Not much to say about this award.

Would they...sure, we can give Camby all of the credit if we so desire, but the Nuggets haven't had a bad defensive team since 2002. Meanwhile, we have a Boston team that shot from 16th to 1st by a large margin...and Ray Allen wasn't their big defensive offseason addition...

Fair enough, I should have at least included Garnett in my top 5. Camby is putting up better individual defensive stats though, so I stick by my decision there.

"MIP who has three plus years experience and is under age 28."

Well that doesn't have a very nice ring to it. Improvement is improvement. Granted, the Rookie->Sophomore improvement is pretty common, but the award is what it is. Oh, and can you find a player whose PER has improved more this season than Monta?

[benji]

Well, they are good because of Paul. Also though, I don't have any statistical proof, but don't forget that the year West became good, and almost won MIP (2006) was Paul's first year in the NBA. Having a PG like Paul makes scoring a lot easier. I doubt West's stats quite as good without CP3 at least.

I'm not saying Paul does not deserve to be in the MVP conversation. What I am saying is, Paul hasn't turned West into an All-Star, and even if West's development coincided with Paul's arrival (even ignoring that West was injured after missing half his second season) two years back, that's no reason to give him the MVP now.

My point is more or less, when making arguments for why people should be MVP, there is too much of a tendency to start ascribing everything and anything to the player to bolster the case. Instead of simply saying, he's the second best player in the league this season on a team that could win the West and he's doing more with less than Kobe, etc. al.

Camby is putting up better individual defensive stats though, so I stick by my decision there.

More blocks...better defensive stats? I'll have to look.

improvement. Granted, the Rookie->Sophomore improvement is pretty common, but the award is what it is. Oh, and can you find a player whose PER has improved more this season than Monta?

Well, I'm not really going by PER, but I'm sure you mean just to check quickly since it's a good sum-up stat.

I did this quickly, without checking for years played, or even really minutes played. Obviously there are people to throw out because they had previous seasons before 2006-07 that were better, like Hedo and Kaman. First is 2006-07 PER, then 2007-08 PER, then the difference.

Code: Select all

C.J. Miles   2.8   12.3   9.5
Brandon Bass   7.2   15.2   8.0
Michael Ruffin   4.4   12.3   7.9
Rashad McCants   7.2   14.6   7.4
Andrew Bynum   15.4   22.6   7.2
Chris Paul   22.0   28.8   6.8
Roger Mason   7.2   13.0   5.8
Leon Powe   14.6   20.3   5.7
LeBron James   24.5   29.5   5.0
Chris Kaman   12.9   17.6   4.7
Kendrick Perkins   9.5   14.1   4.6
Rudy Gay   12.4   17.0   4.6
Jordan Farmar   10.8   15.3   4.5
Amare Stoudemire   23.1   27.3   4.2
Dahntay Jones   9.6   13.6   4.0
Monta Ellis   15.0   18.9   3.9

I might start backing Roger Mason at this point...I had no clue.