Kidd (finally) traded to Dallas

[grusom]

good, finally thats over and done with and we can begin rebuilding

You still need to get rid of Carter

[Fitzy]

good, finally thats over and done with and we can begin rebuilding

You still need to get rid of Carter

emphasis on the 'we can begin"

[Andrew]

Even at his age and given that this isn't his finest year, I don't think it's completely unreasonable to suggest that what Kidd can bring to the table could conceivably help the Mavericks. It's a risk in giving up Harris and Diop but even if it doesn't pan out, Dallas still has Nowitzki, Howard and Terry along with some serviceable role players. The potential to bounce back from a bad roll of the dice is there.

[th0r]

-----

[J@3]

Do you think you can maybe wait until you get to 10 or so posts before you start insulting people? Thanks.

[Fitzy]

who is the fanboy hes talking about?

[benji]

listen, fantasy freaks.. quoting stats as a basis for determining whether a player is a "loser" or not is just plain stupid..

i am not really a kidd fan but i do think he plays well enough not to be called a loser by some fanboy sitting in front of his computer, quoting stats and not actually having the skills and talent to play basketball at a professional level..

if i'm not mistaken, kidd was USA basketball's athlete of the year in '07 after leading their national team to Gold in the tournament of the americas.. i watch all their games then. Kidd played well in them. also, after watching the all-star game a couple of days ago, it made me realize how good kidd can play with actual talent alongside him..

Hey, remember when people used to actually try and make arguments, searching for evidence and theory to construct them, instead of simply declaring things and then saying "watch the games" or "you don't have NBA level talent"?

Maybe it was just a dream.

[Not Me]

like i said, the only real winner is van horn. i wish some one would hand me tons of money just to take a quick trip to nj

agree

[NNpF]

Well I'm relieved that the trade is finally done, and I'm very happy with what the Nets got in return, a lot more than I ever would have expected.

I must say we have a ton of depth at center and power forward, especially when Krstic returns from injury.

C - Diop / Boone / Magloire
PF - Krstic / Williams / Swift

I'm curious to see how Frank distributes the minutes, I doubt Magloire will play much at all as usual but there's still a lot of young talent there that I would like to see get consistent playing time.

Now I want Carter gone, even if it's for a bag of peanuts, but for now they're heading in the right direction in terms of rebuilding.

I'm still not very happy to see Kidd leave, but it was for the best. As tough as the West is right now, I'm hoping Dallas can pull one off so Kidd can finally get a championship.

[jonthefon]

Well, the big thing about this is Kidd "coming home". It would be a great story if Dallas wins, so Dallas just MIGHT be y'know, "favoured" by the refs in the playoffs this year

[yosifun]

I must say we have a ton of depth at center and power forward, especially when Krstic returns from injury.

C - Diop / Boone / Magloire
PF - Krstic / Williams / Swift
.
.
.
Now I want Carter gone, even if it's for a bag of peanuts, but for now they're heading in the right direction in terms of rebuilding.

With so many big men, including Magloire, I think the Nets can try to make a deal for a quality big men such as Randolph/J.O'neal/A.Harrington/... giving up 2-3 of the big men plus another player/draft pick.
Carter is not the problem for New Jersey and trading him for J.O'neal for example won't do any good for the team. I would fire Frank long before I would give up Carter, I remember watching some of their games in the beginning of the season and I must say that exapt throwing ally-hoops for Carter and backing down Carter and Jerreseon against their men the coach doesn't have any game plan at all.

[grusom]

Now I want Carter gone, even if it's for a bag of peanuts, but for now they're heading in the right direction in terms of rebuilding.
[/i]

It would only be appropriate, considering what you got him for in the first place

A motivated Carter still plays at an all-star level though, so if you manage to trade him to a contender, you should be able to get something of value in return. I don't understand why the Nets would even consider swapping him straight up for Jermaine O'neal - they have already got a very promising front court rotation.I would look for a young, promising wing player and some first round picks.

[Sauru]

Well, the big thing about this is Kidd "coming home". It would be a great story if Dallas wins, so Dallas just MIGHT be y'know, "favoured" by the refs in the playoffs this year

dallas will never be favored, if stern has his way they will never have a ring, well at least til they get a new owner

[cyanide]

The irony of it all. I tried to trade Billups for Kidd in 2K8, but Kidd declined because he had a no trade clause.

[Lamrock]

Billups for Kidd? That actually happened in one of my NBA Live 08 sim dynasties (although it was 2011, and Kidd was a Hawk).

It is time to change the topic title. Kidd is currently playing as a Mav.

[Sauru]

paul is killing him too

[Andrew]

It is time to change the topic title. Kidd is currently playing as a Mav.

Done.

It certainly wasn't the most impressive debut by any means.

[Fitzy]

the thread is probably over now

[cyanide]

Not quite. Fitzy, get your punctuation and capitals back, damn it!

[Fitzy]

never!

[Indy]

After watching the first couple JKidd in Dallas games, I've decided I think Dallas will win it all this year. He and Jason Terry actually complement each other extremely well. Kidd will bring them something in the playoffs that they've struggled with in the playoffs in the past- easy buckets. Terry is usually the fastest player on the court, and Kidd is the best long bounce passer in the league. He can throw a bounce pass from one free throw line to the other and hit a guy in stride.

Where his problems arise offensively and he starts turning the ball over is when offense gets stagnant and he doesn't have places to defer. In Dallas, the offense never got stagnant without Kidd, they really have an excellent half-court scheme. I think Kidd will be more in his element in the half-court there and will force less. You'll see his turnover numbers start to dip now.

Also I think Dirk has gotten the label of playoff choker far too quickly. Remember before the Mavs blew the last 4 games of the finals against Miami, Dirk had been having an unbelievable playoffs, complete with a fantastic performance knocking out San Antonio. Everyone was talking about him as a top 5 player in the league and Dirk and clutch went hand in hand. A bad couple games in the finals and a bad series against Golden State later and all of a sudden Dirk is a choker. I don't buy it.

Right now I rank the West teams like this:
Dallas
San Antonio
L.A. Lakers
Phoenix
New Orleans
Utah
Houston
Denver
Golden State
Portland

[Lamrock]

Glad I'm not the only one predicting a Mavs title. And I think your West rankings are right on the money. (the only change would be to maybe swap Utah and New Orleans' slots, but thats pretty up in the air also)

I haven't seen Kidd play for Dallas yet, but I hope your right.

As for Dirk, I'm glad somebody has brought up the Spurs series. I still wouldn't consider Dirk is great clutch player by any means, but he isn't as bad as he is made out. Also, game 5 against the Warriors last year, he was huge. Still, for as many good clutch performances he has had, there are just as many bad ones, and those all came when it counted.

[Indy]

As for Dirk, I'm glad somebody has brought up the Spurs series. I still wouldn't consider Dirk is great clutch player by any means, but he isn't as bad as he is made out.

I think when you look at the way he has raised his game in the playoffs, its not even fair to characterize him that way. Dirk is a legitimate superstar. Superstars score more points and rebound more in the playoffs then they do in the regular season and Dirk does that very consistently.

When you look at a guy like Kevin Garnett's body of playoff work against Dirk's, Dirk matches up quite favorably and has done more playoff winning then KG also.

benji: Reasons you can't measure Kidd's impact with the stats you are throwing out there:

1.) Kidd's quality of assists are better then anyone else in the NBA. He gets guys easy shots in seemingly impossible situations. When Kidd makes 2 or 3 great plays in a row to get guys layups, it raises the intensity level of the entire team. People start playing with more intensity defensively and looking to get in to those spots that only Jason Kidd can fit the ball in to. It makes the game a whole lot more fun for the rest of the team. That is the reason every time you hear Kidd rumors all of a sudden all the superstars start talking about how badly they want him.

2.) Kidd sets a tremendous example on both ends of the floor. Kidd brings it defensively every night and plays very smart and hard on that end of the floor. His example from the point guard spot alone makes the rest of the team play better defense, and when he's getting you layups and you aren't having to work very hard to score you feel like you owe it to him to bring it on the other end. This is an overall theme of playing with Jason Kidd.

Kenyon Martin in New Jersey: Damn, Kidd is getting all sorts of rebounds, throwing me great lobs and working hard on defense. I'd better work real hard on both ends to make up for all the work he's doing.

KMart is the perfect example, because look at how much his demeanor and attitude towards the game has changed since going to Denver. Go ahead and attribute it to injuries if you want, but he does not play anywhere near the same way he did in Jersey.

[benji]

Kidd's quality of assists are better then anyone else in the NBA.

Any evidence to support this?

He gets guys easy shots in seemingly impossible situations.

Or, the guys get Kidd easy assists?

It makes the game a whole lot more fun for the rest of the team. That is the reason every time you hear Kidd rumors all of a sudden all the superstars start talking about how badly they want him.

So "fun" and personal anecdotes win games?

His example from the point guard spot alone makes the rest of the team play better defense

We have officially jumped the shark here on the NLSC.

Kenyon Martin in New Jersey: Damn, Kidd is getting all sorts of rebounds, throwing me great lobs and working hard on defense. I'd better work real hard on both ends to make up for all the work he's doing.

KMart is the perfect example, because look at how much his demeanor and attitude towards the game has changed since going to Denver. Go ahead and attribute it to injuries if you want, but he does not play anywhere near the same way he did in Jersey.

If only there was some way to explain it...oh look, you did. If we look at Martin's lone full strength season in Denver?

2003-04MartinNJN: 49.2% eFG, 52.8% TS, 2.3% Stl, 2.8% Blk, 14.0% TOV, 25.0% Usage, Assisted on 67% of baskets, 13.0% foul drawn rate
2004-05MartinDEN: 49.0% eFG, 52.1% TS, 2.3% Stl, 2.6% Blk, 12.5% TOV, 23.4% Usage, Assisted on 66% of baskets, 13.5% foul drawn rate

You may ascribe the rebounding drop to Kidd's amazing magical spells he casts being a wizard (of magic type, not Washington type) but it might also be playing next to an actual rebounder. Martin retained his offensive rebounding, from 7.4% to 7.0%. His defensive rebounding fell from 25.3% to 18.4%. (That 25% was actually high, Martin's career rate is 19%.) Jason Collins defensive rebound rate? 13.6%. Marcus Camby's? 30.1% (Nene: 19.2%)

So Martin went from a 17.4-9.9 guy to a 17.2-8.1 guy, primarly because the other big man actually rebounded. So much for Kidd turning him from a scrub to an all-star.

[BIG GREEN]

Man....kidd had 17 assists with the victory tonight. I havent seen this jason kidd since the early part of this decade. Move over nash...here comes the old timer to retake his spot at second place behind paul. The west is up for grabs imo...there are now about 4 teams that I wouldn't rank above one another.