Indiana Pacers thread

[maes]

Makes no sense for Seattle, however. If Seattle drops Ray, then it's basically saying we're giving up on the playoff run and going into rebuilding...in which case why would take JON over young stars available on the Bulls or any number of other teams who love to have Allen?

Seattle just isn't the kind of team that's saying "hey, we're just 1 piece away from a championship and we have to do it in the next 2 years." With the Durant pick, they all of a sudden have a lot of long term potential.

I can see a scenario where the team goes into rebuilding around Durant, but in that case Rashard & Ray will get traded for very high picks or rookie contracts, not $20M centers with a few years of their prime left.

Didn't mean to get off too much on theoretical trades, but i agree w/ Indy on the LA-Pacers thing, Pacers have a lot of potential trade partners and there's no reason to trade JON to LA...it's Kobe who made those ultimatums, not O'Neal. All the pressure is on the LA to make it sweet enough for the Pacers.

[Indy]

I know the Seattle trade is a little bit of a stretch, but I think it also makes sense for them. Seattle has been searching for a low post presence since they lost Shawn Kemp unsuccessfully. Making this deal means more moves would have to be in the future, especially acquiring a point guard, but there is definitley a market for point guards out there in the way of a Rashard Lewis sign and trade. Mo Williams, Mike Bibby and Chauncey Billups all would fit in pretty well with Jermaine and Kevin Durant. Mike Bibby is the most plausible idea there, and he's probably the best fit too.

I think Durant will be a good player for Seattle next year regardless, but if he is teamed up with a guy like Ray Allen, then the perimiter will be bogged up like it always has in Seattle, and they will still be piss poor in low post defense. If you have the opportunity to trade aging shooter for aging low post player, I think you have to make that move. This would make them a more complete team.

New York intrigues me too.

Indiana sends: Jermaine O'neal, Jamaal Tinsley, Mike Dunleavy.
New York sends: Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford, David Lee, Eddy Curry and the number 23 pick.

I think Zeke may bite at that.

[shadowgrin]

The only player worth it in that NY scenario is David Lee.
I think Francis and Crawford won't thrive in O'Brien's system.
As for Eddy Curry, meh. I'll take Jeff Foster over him anytime.

[magius]

i wouldn't do that if i'm ny, the only way i even consider it is I switch up lee and frye. also i do not see isiah trading curry anytime in the near future.

[Indy]

The only player worth it in that NY scenario is David Lee.
I think Francis and Crawford won't thrive in O'Brien's system.

I disagree completely. Francis and Crawford are exactly the type of players O'Brien likes to work with. Remember Antoine Walker had his best years under O'Brien. O'Brien likes to get the ball up the floor fast and shoot a lot of 3s. We are going to need more shooters, so Crawford fits perfectly. In fact, I'd like to go after him even if we aren't getting him as part of a JO deal.

As for Eddy Curry, meh. I'll take Jeff Foster over him anytime.

I like players that can make layups.

[shadowgrin]

lol, I can't refute that Foster argument.

Yes, O'Brien's system is pretty much wide open for scorers but his coaching on defense sucks. Antoine and Pierce lambasted him for it, even A.I. when he coached Philly. Maybe it has something to do with sticking to Jim's discipline on defense, that's understandable with Walker but A.I. pretty much know his defense (being under Larry Brown) so does Pierce.
I don't think Francis and Crawford are the disciplined types on defense.

[Indy]

Larry O'Brien is an offensive coach and Dick Harter is the defensive coach. He is the only guy other then Jeff Van Gundy that I think could fix a team as bad defensively as the Pacers will be minus JO.

[dan_suth]

O'Brien likes to get the ball up the floor fast and shoot a lot of 3s. We are going to need more shooters, so Crawford fits perfectly.

But Crawford is not a good shooter. He shot 40% last year from the field, and 32% from 3pt land. If I were trying to build a team around some good shooters, I would want Crawford to stay as far away as possible.

[Sauru]

i would not want crawford either, him and marbury are cancers and should be avoided at all costs

[---]

I've always liked Jamal Crawford, but he's one of the dumbest players I've ever watched.

Anyway about the possible NYK trade, I don't think Isiah wants to finish his lovefest with Eddy Curry in the near future.

[Indy]

I've always liked Jamal Crawford, but he's one of the dumbest players I've ever watched.

That's exactly what Larry O'Brien has shown to be good at. He got Antoine Walker to look like a player with a head on his shoulders. Toine's fgp didn't go up much, but if you watched him he just helped the team in so many other ways then he had in the past. After OB was fired, Walker went right back to his old ways.

Anyway about the possible NYK trade, I don't think Isiah wants to finish his lovefest with Eddy Curry in the near future.

I agree, except I'm pretty sure JO and Isiah are truely a couple, and Curry and JO would not coexsist well at all.

[Laker Socks]

actually indy, the lakers did have leverage before kobe ran his mouth or at least mitch and bird were on fair ground.

Bird cant demand too much for an injury prone all-star that had a poor feild goal percentage last season.

considering that Indy seems to be going into rebuild mode, the lakers appear to be the only team interested in JO that can give the pacers young players and cap flexibility.

but kobe ran his mouth so rest assured mitch is gonna get raped by larry.
he's gonna make the late Red Auerbach proud by robbing the lakers at broad daylight

[shadowgrin]

Anyway about the possible NYK trade, I don't think Isiah wants to finish his lovefest with Eddy Curry in the near future.

Indy's right, before Isiah fell in-love with Curry, Jermaine already had a nice relationship with Zeke in Indiana. No one forgets a first love.

[Indy]

actually indy, the lakers did have leverage before kobe ran his mouth or at least mitch and bird were on fair ground.

You never have the leverage when you are trading multiple players for one. The team with the one star is always in the drivers seat unless the star demanded a trade in the case of AI/Carter/Artest etc.

Bird cant demand too much for an injury prone all-star that had a poor feild goal percentage last season.

Mitch isn't dumb enough to argue the field goal percentage thing with Larry and Donnie. Jermaine was shooting out of double and triple teams all year last season. Add on top of that the fact that he was playing hurt. He would shot 48%+ with the Lakers because he'd be the second option. As for the injury problems, the Lakers are trying to send us Lamar Odom, do you really think they'd try to make that argument?

considering that Indy seems to be going into rebuild mode, the lakers appear to be the only team interested in JO that can give the pacers young players and cap flexibility.

Well that's just not true. Boston, New York, Seattle, Philadelphia, New Jersey and Chicago are all interested.

nd Chicago are all interested.

Indy's right, before Isiah fell in-love with Curry, Jermaine already had a nice relationship with Zeke in Indiana. No one forgets a first love.

I don't know if any of you remember this or not, but after the 2002-2003 season which wound up being Isiah's last JO was a free agent. Jermaine was going to go sign with San Antonio to team up with Duncan untill Bird got hired as president of basketball operations. Larry and Jermaine sat down and Jermaine said he'd only re-sign if Isiah was brought back. Larry said he would be, re-signed Jermaine and promptly fired Isiah. After meeting Rick Jermaine was less upset and went about his business, but I think he's always held a little bit of a grudge against Larry since then. I also think Larry has really regretted playing the situation that way, because since then we have not seen that kind of balls from the Pacers top brass.

[---]

Boston, New York, Seattle, Philadelphia, New Jersey and Chicago are all interested.

I gotta admit I havn't read anything saying Boston, Seattle, Philly and New Jersey are interested but it wouldn't suprise me and I try to keep away from this whole mess.

But if Kobe lands in Chicago at the expense of Deng and Gordon I will be heartbroke.

[Laker Socks]

like i said, the lakers had all the leverage because they had what no ther team interested in JO had: a promising big man and cap flexibility. that's leverage.

but because of Kobe whining, then Indy will dumping Tinsley and other unwanted players.

OH AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THIS CLEAR, MITCH IS FUCKING DUMB. DUMB ENOUGH TO LOSE IN THE SPECIAL OLYMPICS.
(sorry for the caps, it made me feel better)

[grusom]

Boston, New York, Seattle, Philadelphia, New Jersey and Chicago are all interested.

I gotta admit I havn't read anything saying Boston, Seattle, Philly and New Jersey are interested but it wouldn't suprise me and I try to keep away from this whole mess.

But if Kobe lands in Chicago at the expense of Deng and Gordon I will be heartbroke.

What?

I wouldn't hestitate one second to make that trade. Sure, they are two good players, but Kobe would make them an instant contender.

[---]

C - Wallace
PF - Thomas
SF - Thabo
SG - Bryant
PG - Hinrich

C - Wallace
PF - Thomas
SF - Deng
SG - Gordon
PG - Hinrich

I take line-up 2. The Bulls after the trade don't look a whole lot better than the current Lakers, I think thi team wouldn't be going forwards at all. Deng and Gordon are so young and full of promise I would hate to see them go, especially since they are really starting to bloom now.

Off the top of my head I can only name LeBron, Marion, Artest, T-Mac, Melo, Michael Redd and Paul Pierce who are better SF's than Luol. He's at a Josh Howard/Caron Butler level right now. He's also younger than all of these guys, even LeBron.

Ben may be undersized but he's the scorer the Bulls need. Theres plenty of great guards in todays game but how does Ben rank? Probably top 10.

These guys, along with Kirk Hinrich are the Bulls core. That core is so young, the oldest of them is 26 and just finished his fourth season in the league. The Bulls went from laughing stock to contenders since they got these guys. Chicago will arguably be the best team in the Eastern Conference next season depending on what happens with Detroit.

This team will also be adding a lottery pick, hopefully filing there post scorer role.

Why throw it all away right now to aqcuire Kobe?

If anything this team gets worse with Kobe. Remember, they won't only be giving up Gordon and Deng, but other players to make the salaries match. What if Kobe walks away from Chicago and goes somewhere else when he can opt out in 2 years? Chicago is left with nothing.

Kobe may be the best individual talent in the NBA but Pax has built a great roster thus far and it has worked. No need to throw it all away now.

[Laker Socks]

Kobe would make them instant leastern conference champs.

[grusom]

C - Wallace
PF - Thomas
SF - Thabo
SG - Bryant
PG - Hinrich

C - Wallace
PF - Thomas
SF - Deng
SG - Gordon
PG - Hinrich

I take line-up 2. The Bulls after the trade don't look a whole lot better than the current Lakers, I think thi team wouldn't be going forwards at all. Deng and Gordon are so young and full of promise I would hate to see them go, especially since they are really starting to bloom now.

You are forgetting about Nocioni, who would start over Thabo.
If you throw him into the mix, that roster looks a lot netter than LA's curent one to me.

[Sauru]

bah, fairy tales, thats all i see here. why not talk about what could actually happen, or the topic

[---]

You are forgetting about Nocioni, who would start over Thabo.
If you throw him into the mix, that roster looks a lot netter than LA's curent one to me.

Most people tend to think Nocioni won't be back. I remember an interview where Andres said he underdstands it's a business but will be sad to go. I don't know if they will let him walk or sign and trade, but it's looking like theres a good chance of him going. Even so, I would still take the 'no-Kobe' Bulls over the post-trade Bulls. Too much promise to throw it away now. I would only do that if the Bulls had a couple players with Gerald Green/Andrew Bynum type promise. Players that should become very good one day but haven't really done anything yet. Gordon and Deng are bonafide stars at a young age and on their way up.

The current team won't be better with Kobe and in 5 years time, Deng and Gordon will probably be ripping up the league on another roster.

[Indy]

like i said, the lakers had all the leverage because they had what no ther team interested in JO had: a promising big man and cap flexibility. that's leverage.

I don't think you know what the word leverage means. The Pacers have the multiple all-star 20-10 guy who is one of the top defenders in the league. Having a guy with potential does not give you leverage over a guy like that.

I would rather move JO for 5th pick/Gerald Green/Delonte West/Theo Ratliff.

[Sauru]

well i hope the celtics dont go and make that trade not cause i think they are getting totally ripped off(though you think higher of JO than i do) but i think if we make that trade the celts are gonna be stuck as a second round playoff team for awhile, with maybe 1 trip to the eastern finals, and thats a big maybe imo.

i want the celts to use that pick and get one of these young guys who can actually play, you know, actually draft a good draft pick.

[dan_suth]

At this point, I wouldn't even consider giving up the 5th pick in this year's draft for Jermaine O'Neal... especially with "throw-ins" of Green & West. That'd be totally foolish in my opinion. I really can't see the Pacers getting an "awesome" deal for him... I'm sure they won't get the short end of the stick, but at the same time, there's no way they are going to get more than he's worth.