Tony Parker - Future HOF PG

[magius]

do not get mad but I do not see any of the spurs' players going to be a HOF player.
Duncan is good but he is not robinson
Parker is good and run very fast but he is not the genius Stockton was (and I am French)
Ginobili : He could be, it depend on how he will play with Argentina.

What makes the spurs very good are:
1- team chemistry
2- great defensive players (bowen & finkey)
3- clutch players (ginobili & horry)

by not robinson you mean better than robinson, then yeah.

as for parker i don't think he's hof just yet. we'll see what happens A.D. ... after duncan. but if you put him in based on the criteria that he was #2 for the spurs 2 (maybe 3) rings, you might have to put manu in too, considering he was 2b (or, in some people's eyes, 2a). I am still not sold that his reputation and even his stats are not a direct byproduct of td.

as for rodman, the guy should be a shoe in for the hof. back to back dpoy, the only thing holding him back is his reputation, which should have nothing to do with it. if you don't put rodman in you sure as hell shouldn't put tp in.

[The X]

do not get mad but I do not see any of the spurs' players going to be a HOF player.
Duncan is good but he is not robinson
Parker is good and run very fast but he is not the genius Stockton was (and I am French)
Ginobili : He could be, it depend on how he will play with Argentina.

What makes the spurs very good are:
1- team chemistry
2- great defensive players (bowen & finkey)
3- clutch players (ginobili & horry)

Duncan is superb, & he is much better than Robinson IMHO....Robinson was always a bit of a softy....Robinson had a supporting cast of Rodman (pre-coloured hair, in prime, he's a future HOF-er or should be), Sean Elliott (all-star in prime pre-kidney issues), & other role players....he couldn't get it done until he had Duncan....Duncan is best defensive player in the league (Bowen is in top few as well)....

I agree with your assessment on Parker....I think time will tell with him, but I don't believe he has greatness destined for him....good career yes, great career no, but we'll see....

Ginobili won't be, unless it is for his international play for Argentina, as you said....I think he needs to continue playing for his country & providing great play, but it would be good to see him make it for his international play in dethroning the Yanks....it was monumental for the sport of basketball on the international stage....

[Sauru]

rodman started the colored hair thing in san antonio. its why they were willing to deal him for will perdue

[RKO]

do not get mad but I do not see any of the spurs' players going to be a HOF player.
Duncan is good but he is not robinson
Parker is good and run very fast but he is not the genius Stockton was (and I am French)
Ginobili : He could be, it depend on how he will play with Argentina.

What makes the spurs very good are:
1- team chemistry
2- great defensive players (bowen & finkey)
3- clutch players (ginobili & horry)

Dude you should kill ureself for saying that Duncan is not gonna be in the HOF...Duncan is the best post up player in the History of the NBA, if not the best, then either 2nd or 3rd....WOW....by the time Duncan's career is over, hell be remembered as one of the best players to ever play the game, and he is not HOF material,,,are you stupid...were you drinkin something when u said that...Parker, nor Ginobili will be in the HOF. Parker has a good chance, but if Ginobili was 25, then I guess he would have a chance, but not now...

PS - Robinson was one of the Leagues best centers at his time, but Duncan is way better than Robinson, a way better player all around...Both of them are great, and I hate to make a difference between them, but Duncan sure is better and he is gonna have a better career when he retires, more rings, etc...

[Sauru]

duncan is good, but he is not the best post up player in the history of the nba, i dont think i would even give him top 3. hell i know i wouldnt give him top 3, one of the best would be a good statement as in top 10 post players ever, i could live with that.

anyway being said, he is a lock for the hall and its well deserved

[RKO]

Sauru...gimme some players names that got a better...BETTER post up game than Duncan.....THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL!

[Andrew]

Sauru...gimme some players names that got a better...BETTER post up game than Duncan.....THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL!

I'm not Sauru but I personally would name Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Kevin McHale as players that could be touted as having a post game that is as good or better than Tim Duncan.

At this point I think it's too early to say yes, Tony Parker definitely deservesto go/is definitely going to the Hall of Fame but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a candidate when it's all said and done. Consider Robert Parish and James Worthy; both great players named to the Top 50 team in 1997 with good career numbers who played an important role for championship winning teams but they were still the third player behind Bird/McHale and Magic/Kareem respectively. Parker might not be a lock like Duncan but I'd say it's quite possible he'll at least be in consideration.

[Glen]

and to add to what Andrew said, hakeem olajuwon has a plethora of post moves over duncan... and was able to showcase it night in, and night out against guys like abdul-jabbar, ewing, mutombo, robinson, mourning and shaq throughout the course of his career...

[RKO]

None of those players had the post moves, like Duncan did, everytime something new. Now it looks like I'm riding Tim Duncan's di**. I personally think Tim Duncan's game inside, and the moves he has are better than those guys'. Now Hakeem Olajuwon, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were both great NBA Centers, centers that won Championships....If you were to create a team, or just to choose two big men...who would you choose out of experience, out of...Duncan, Olajuwon, Abdul, and McHale....personally I would pick Olajuwon and DUncan, because Hakeem is a center, atleast good at the C position and Duncan is a true PF that can play C...

[Andrew]

None of those players had the post moves, like Duncan did, everytime something new.

I'm sorry but that's just an utterly ignorant statement. The diversity of Olajuwon and McHale's post game is legendary and there's hours upon hours of tape, not to mention the testimony of coaches, opponents, teammates and analysts alike, that support those claims. Those guys made some of the finest athletes and toughest defenders look clumsy with their wide arsenal of moves that constantly kept the defense wondering what was coming next.

[RKO]

Andrew thats my view of it...everybody else got a diff. view of their game...

[magius]

i wouldn't say that td is a better post player than hakeem or kareem or shaq, etc., for the simple fact that he is not a truly dominant post SCORER. he's dominant, don't get me wrong, but not to the extent of past post players. probably because he does not have that single unstoppable trademark move, i.e. the dream shake or kareem's skyhook. his most trademarked move is probably the banker, in which he usually only gets 4 points off per game on average. another reason is he is not as agressive a post player as said players, and at times seems to prefer to take what the defense gives him. This is not a bad thing mind you, in fact it is this very trait that makes him one of the greatest, if not the greatest team oriented superstars in the history of the nba - on both ends of the court.

that said, if given the choice to build behind any player in nba history duncan would be among my top choices, if not my top choice. if only because I know, given past precedent, that I don't neccessarily need another top superstar to pair with him. I'm hard pressed to think of another player easier to build around offensively AND defensively.

[Andrew]

Andrew thats my view of it...everybody else got a diff. view of their game...

Absolutely, but with all due respect your view shows a lot of bias towards Duncan and dismissal of the abilities of anyone not named Tim Duncan.

[RKO]

LOL.....I respect everyones game...but hey everyone got a fav player and they can talk all they want....u kno wut im sayin

[The X]

ahhh, The Dream....I've never see a big man, so nimble & with the post moves he had....just superb....

[grusom]

ahhh, The Dream....I've never see a big man, so nimble & with the post moves he had....just superb....

One of my all time favourits as well. Every time someone mentions him on this forum, I just HAS to go watch his dream shakes on David Robinson on youtube

His game was a thin og beauty

[shadowgrin]

who would you choose out of experience, out of...Duncan, Olajuwon, Abdul, and McHale

Abdul-Jabbar lasted 20 years playing in the NBA as one of the top centers, in a championship contender team, because of his dominance in the post.

Let's get this HOF thing over with...

OFFICIAL Usenet Basketball Team Position Definitions:

Center - The tallest player on the team. He's supposed to get rebounds. If he
scores or blocks shots in addition to getting rebounds, he's an All-Star. If
he does two other things besides get rebounds he's an MVP and/or future Hall of
Fame member.

Power Forward - The second tallest player on the team. PF's are like centers,
except they look at the basket instead of have their backs to it.

Small Forward - A small forward is not a guard, not a center, and not a PF.
Other than that, noone is quite sure what they do, so anything they do is OK.

Shooting Guard. He scores. He doesn't pass. If a player scores and passes,
he is an All-Star. If he scores and passes a lot, he's an MVP and/or a future
Hall of Fame member.

Point Guard. He passes the ball. He doesn't shoot the ball, EVER!!! If a PG
does shoot the ball, then he is a SG playing out of position.

I hope this helps ( ).

Tom@Orlando

[Sauru]

Sauru...gimme some players names that got a better...BETTER post up game than Duncan.....THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL!

I'm not Sauru but I personally would name Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Kevin McHale as players that could be touted as having a post game that is as good or better than Tim Duncan.

all 3 of these players where better in the post than duncan, and 1 of them had probably the most unstopable shot in basketball history, no way duncan compares to that. mchale is often underrated i think for how good he was. its another case of todays fans just looking at his ppg and saying "not that good actually" when he really was. everyone who is a fan of the nba should also know the stuff that hakeem has done in the post and how many people he has made look really bad cause of it.

so just those 3 players alone knock duncan out of top 3 so like i said, and with some help from andrew, i think duncan is a top 10 post player of all time, not sure where i would rank him 4-10 but he would be in there somewhere.

[RKO]

Dude Duncan is like the best PF that has ever played the game, but w/e....how about Tony Parker last night. If he continues like this, hes gonna win the Finals MVP, and then the Spurs have a bright future ahead of them, build around Tony Parker, when Duncan and others leave.

[Sauru]

just because you are the best power forward ever(though that can be debated too) does not mean you are the best post player ever.

[[Q]]

i gotta admit Larry Hughes and his torn plantar fascia are making TP look like a god out there. more PT for Gibson please!!

[Axel]

Where does Shaq rank? He didn't have the best post skills ever, but he didn't actually need them. In his prime, he was more dominant than Tim Duncan.

Does that make him a better post player?

[Sauru]

i honestly would take shaq over duncan as he was unstopable in his prime. i still say god help the nba if shaq was as motivated as the other greatest players of all time. now i would not put shaq much higher than duncan, probably only a spot or 2 above. duncan is a great player dont get me wrong i just dont see him as one of the very best post players to ever grace the nba.

[maes]

Duncan's stats don't look mind blowing until you realize how slow a pace Pops plays and how much he uses their bench.

Put Duncan on Phoenix and he would look like a minor god. Actually, his stats during the Phoenix series are very telling of what he'd look like on most teams:

27 ppg 14 rpg 4.2 bpg 57% fg

Olajuwon not only played 40+ mpg, but he also dominated the ball, usually 2 to 1 in touches over even the guards. Duncan doesn't even have the highest # of shots on the Spurs, Parker took more shots than he did.

Someone on RealGM posted these:

Code: Select all

You've got to adjust for minutes and league pace. Here are their respective per 40 numbers over their first 10 seasons after adjusting for pace:

Code:
olajuwon,  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
1997-98   18.7 11.1  3.5  2.0  2.3  3.1 .483 .531 20.7
1996-97   24.7  9.8  3.2  1.6  2.4  3.8 .512 .558 22.4
1995-96   27.3 11.0  3.6  1.6  2.9  3.5 .515 .558 25.5
1994-95   27.7 10.7  3.5  1.8  3.3  3.3 .517 .563 26.1
1993-94   26.5 11.6  3.5  1.6  3.6  3.3 .530 .565 25.1
1992-93   26.6 13.4  3.7  1.9  4.3  3.3 .525 .573 27.0
1991-92   23.1 12.9  2.4  1.9  4.7  2.9 .502 .553 23.4
1990-91   22.5 14.6  2.5  2.3  4.2  3.3 .508 .549 24.1
1989-90   24.7 14.2  2.9  2.2  4.6  3.9 .501 .541 24.0
1988-89   26.5 14.4  1.9  2.8  3.7  3.6 .508 .552 25.1
AVERAGE   24.8 12.4  3.1  2.0  3.6  3.4 .510 .554 24.3

duncan,ti  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
2006-07   23.9 12.6  4.1  1.0  2.8  3.3 .547 .579 25.9
2005-06   21.7 12.9  3.7  1.0  2.4  2.9 .485 .523 22.9
2004-05   24.9 13.6  3.3  0.8  3.2  2.4 .498 .540 27.0
2003-04   24.4 13.6  3.4  1.0  2.9  2.9 .502 .534 26.8
2002-03   23.7 13.1  4.0  0.7  3.0  3.1 .515 .564 26.6
2001-02   25.2 12.6  3.7  0.7  2.4  3.2 .508 .576 26.9
2000-01   23.2 12.7  3.1  0.9  2.4  3.1 .502 .536 23.6
1999-00   24.3 13.0  3.3  0.9  2.3  3.4 .491 .555 24.6
1998-99   21.9 11.5  2.4  0.9  2.5  3.0 .495 .541 22.9
1997-98   21.7 12.3  2.8  0.7  2.6  3.5 .549 .577 22.3
AVERAGE   23.4 12.8  3.4  0.9  2.7  3.1 .509 .553 24.9

IMO Duncan is a lot better than people give him credit for, but (like Pippen) he's sacrificed a lot of personal production for the team concept, including letting a 6' 2" french guy be the #1 scoring option.

[scrub]

If they came up against each other in their prime I think Olajuwon's ball handling and athleticism would be very hard for Duncan to contain.