Kidd-Nash Overrated?

[NovU]

Seriously, I think these two point guards are overrated.

Kidd- is a fine tuned player overall but never was able to dominate either clutch. Most importantly never done anything other than tripling doubling dingding dang dong

Nash- c'mon ppl. i'm canadian and totally support him but MVP 2 yrs in a row and almost 3 yrs in a row? that's nutts. he is good but never been mvp good. say he replaces kobe in lakers, the lakerz gonna suck even more. mvp award should be given to the best player whoz most important to the winning team but at the same time should be a super duper dominant player at all lvls

[Its_asdf]

Never done anything other than triple doubling? What the hell? You make it sound like players can get triple doubles with ease. Comparing a player like Nash who plays in a system that he thrives in with Kobe Bryant and his team's average record is absolutely retarded as well. What's the point of being a really good player when you cannot lead them to any victories? You can average a 100 points a night but that doesn't mean anything for the team if you're 0-82. I'm not saying Kobe Bryant is a bad player, but MVP isn't simply based on who's more valuable, but who can also help their team win the most.

I don't understand why you would say this because you aren't evening trying to make a coherent arguement; you're just spewing a load of turd.

[maes]

It's a position of leadership, decision making, and direction.

Do you think a marine on the front lines is more important than the general directing the war effort just because the General doesn't do any actual shooting?

[cyanide]

Have you watched either of them play? Kidd is a future hall of famer, for sure. Watch him in the Raptors series this playoffs, and you'd see he was the reason why the Nets easily won the round. The guy's a true point guard who makes so many intangible things happen on offense and he made TJ Ford look like crap.

Nash, don't get me started on him. Have you seen him play?

[flashy]

Ok Nash overated? Yes. Him getting MVP is like giving MVP to a DH in baseball....Nash has no Defense. So hes like a half and half blend of coffee right?
lol

Jason Kidd over-rated is the dumbest and most absurd comment I have ever heard about him.

I would like you to name one player in this years playoffs that gets this amount of production...

Jason Kidd
PPG 14.6
RPG 10.90
APG 10.9
SPG 1.8
EFF +27.25
44% FG
42% 3pt

Just to clear stuff up on the Lebron James fire-back here ya go...

LBJ "the all of a sudden KING"
PPG 25.8
RPG 8.30
APG 8.3
SPG 1.9
EFF +28.69
43% FG
30% 3PT

And Kidd shot more 3's in a shorter period of playoffs time....just to show u how bad of a shooter Lebron actually IS.

Hah... Ason Kidd....more like LB without the J

Good luck to the Cavs....they gonna feel the wrath of the achillees heel.

[Craig]

^^^ why comparing Kidd to LeBron? LeBron isn't a MVP yet. Since this topic is about MVP, if you want to do a comparison you should go with this year's MVP Dirk.

and about your "Jason Kidd....more like LB without the J " theory...
I'm a little confused, are you trying to say Kidd is a better shooter than Lebron?

I think this doesn't deserve a discussion coz they are both not very good shooter.

But Man, give me a break... I admire Kidd's game as much as you are, but where was Kidd when he's 22?

[flashy]

Yeah you are right...both not great shooters? Both can shoot the clutch both can make 3's when they need to but Kidd is more consistent.

Just think about this...
Kidd and LBJ....lets just say about same speed?
Height difference? 4-5 inches?
Weight difference? 40-50 pounds?
Kidd is a guard.
Lebron is a forward.
Kidd's rebound #'s ever since he got in NBA have been NUTS.

The two have exact same career season rebounds per game.

Isnt the forwards (and centers) supposed to be the ones going for double-doubles game in and game out (or close to it?) Not point guards....they got a diff kind...points and assists.

So when a guard, has better rebounding #'s then really 90% of big men in the league.....dishes out for 10+ APG and nearly always scores 12-13+ PPG....and gets you around 2 steals....

[el badman]

To reply to the thread's topic: no
(for obvious reasons already mentioned here)

[Christopherson]

Wow looks like somebody is working awful hard to get that 1000th post... ^

[Craig]

Yeah you are right...both not great shooters? Both can shoot the clutch both can make 3's when they need to but Kidd is more consistent.

Just think about this...
Kidd and LBJ....lets just say about same speed?
Height difference? 4-5 inches?
Weight difference? 40-50 pounds?
Kidd is a guard.
Lebron is a forward.
Kidd's rebound #'s ever since he got in NBA have been NUTS.

The two have exact same career season rebounds per game.

Isnt the forwards (and centers) supposed to be the ones going for double-doubles game in and game out (or close to it?) Not point guards....they got a diff kind...points and assists.

So when a guard, has better rebounding #'s then really 90% of big men in the league.....dishes out for 10+ APG and nearly always scores 12-13+ PPG....and gets you around 2 steals....

I totally agree with what you said about Kidd, in fact, I think Kidd should've won 1 or 2 MVP a few years ago when he made K-Mart "seems" so good and got Nets in to the Finals.

I'm just saying you should compare a MVP's statistics to Kidd so we can see if Kidd's overrated, and that man should be Dirk or Nash, not LBJ.

and reply to the Topic, since Kidd rarely gets MVP, NBA first team, All NBA defensive team, or even the starter of All-Star team, comparing to Nash (Both make their team much better, but fail to reach the Finals), I believe Kidd's more like underrated.

[TSquared]

maaaan...if u play 1on1 with either of them then you'll know theyre not overrated...

[el badman]

Wow looks like somebody is working awful hard to get that 1000th post... ^

I didn't realize that to tell you the truth, and since some stats and other facts had already been mentioned before my post (and the answer to the question is pretty obvious anyway), I didn't see the use to elaborate....
I'll try to do better next time.

Hold on, did I just waste my 1000th to address your bullshit? oh well...

[grusom]

Hold on, did I just waste my 1000th to address your bullshit? oh well...

yup


(working to get my 170th post)

[Sauru]

wtf kind of topic is this anyway. is this mark cuban?

[TSquared]

hahahah..lmao on Sauru..he makes the best jokes in NLSC...

[SVSM/CC-23]

nash and kidd overrated? maybe some people had problems with the fact that he became MVP two times in a row and maybe it was no undisputable or there were other candidates who also deserved it. but nash deserved it, too. just watch him playing. there are not many leaders of teams which can make a trip deep to the playoffs each year and withal play that spectacular. it is ok and necessary to have a thought about his valuability but he is for sure not overrated.

and kidd? "he is just playing tripledoubles"? only two players in history played more tripledoubles. are they also overrated? he got the nets from draftlottery to the finals within one year and...

oh no thats too stupid. you should know what these both guys did and if you not that you know for sure that they are not overrated!

[magius]

depends on how you rate them.

regarding the media, I don't think so. No one is saying that kidd is better than magic was, or even putting him on the same level. same with nash to a degree. i don't think nash should be a back to back mvp holder, i think that perhaps another player should've won it at least one of his two wins, but that said i don't think its a travesty; what he does is remarkable, the legends themselves drool over this guy and its not for lack of talent. but i can see how one could say he is overrated based on his mvp awards in comparison to precedent players.

[SVSM/CC-23]

then if nash is overrated...how about kidd? he did not win a mvp-title. he was allstar and thats the minimum thing he deserves. maybe he deserved the mvptitle in 2002 or 2003 more than nash did in 2005 or 2006 but nash got lucky that at his best time there were not that much other players dominating the game while winning a lotta games and thats it.

[magius]

i didn't say i think nash was overrated, I said I could see how one can think so - doing nothing much that hasn't been done before by kidd, stock, payt, etc. yet winning a mvp when none of the mentioned did. That said the response to that would be that he didn't not deserve the mvp those years, and the nba has changed. So if one is putting him on par with mj and magic, duncan and shaq, based on those mvps, I'd say yes he is overrated. But if one is putting him a tier or two below that, I'd say thats where he belongs.

[cheater1034]

Kidd is definitely not an overrated point guard, maybe even an underrated point guard.

Nash is a great point guard, but I think he is overrated a little bit because of his lack of defense (pretty much the whole team lacks defense, but that's no excuse). Nash is a great PG, but defense is an important part of anyone's game.

Lebron for example, not a great defensive player when he first entered the league, but now in the past season it was much improved, and now in the 2007 playoffs he's been playing excellent defense.

I think in order to win an MVP title you need to be great on the offensive end up the floor and play above average on the defensive side of the floor - So I don't think nash should of won mvp back to back. LeBron isn't quite an MVP yet because of his defense inconsistency, but once his defensive game is more consistent he won't have much competition.

Nash only got the mvp back to back because he's a great player, he has great players around him, and they win ball games, whereas I think the MVP should include these things, but a big part of it should be leadership and defense.

(granted, LB is a totally different position than these guys at SF, so he shouldn't even be compared to these guys)

To wrap it up
Kidd = underrated (he was averaging a triple double for the majority of the playoffs!)
Nash = overrated (back-to-back MVP shouldnt of happened IMO)

[Laxation]

To reply to the thread's topic: no
(for obvious reasons already mentioned here)

ditto that

there are some things you dont bother trying to argue. saying the two best PGs in the league are overrated, is one of them.

[NovU]

both seem overrated - cuz look at their teammates
vince & jefferson could take any team to the playoffs
amare, diaw, barbosa, marion, etc could take any team to the playoffs without doubt

look at the fact
nets trying to move kidd
nash trying desperately to prove something but obviously again didn't happen this year
besides they got a lot more touches than anybody on their team, so stats is where its supposed to be... especially with their super talented teammates.

i admit they both good but not championship good
mvp award should go to some1 with most talent & skiis not stats
and stats wise there were many more players with better

don't get me wrong but they both r overrated for sure

[cyanide]

Kidd took the Nets to the NBA Finals two times, and no, Vince and Jefferson could not take any team to the playoffs.

Phoenix would not be the team that they are now without Nash and their offensive system.

You contradicted yourself by saying that the MVP award should be given to talent & skills, but complained that there were other players with better stats. Just face it, you don't know your NBA.

[NNpF]

both seem overrated - cuz look at their teammates
vince & jefferson could take any team to the playoffs
amare, diaw, barbosa, marion, etc could take any team to the playoffs without doubt

look at the fact
nets trying to move kidd
nash trying desperately to prove something but obviously again didn't happen this year
besides they got a lot more touches than anybody on their team, so stats is where its supposed to be... especially with their super talented teammates.

i admit they both good but not championship good
mvp award should go to some1 with most talent & skiis not stats
and stats wise there were many more players with better

don't get me wrong but they both r overrated for sure

Vince and Jefferson can take anyone to the playoffs? If Kidd wasn't there they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Any player who averages a triple double if even only through two playoff series is amazing in my eyes.

Kidd is a leader, you bring anyone into New Jersey and he makes sure they do what they're told that thay play hard, run, defend etc. If anything Kidd is underrated because so many people can't see past the inconsistent shooting.

All some people see looking at Kidd is "This guy can't play offense he sucks jajajaja". When Nets need a bucket he will drive and get the hoop himself or make a pass where someone else will get the points. I'm sure your one of those people that think Kobe is the shit because he scores more than everyone else and that's all you see.

Funny how Phoenix went from a non-contender to a contender with the addition of Nash. This guy is clutch, unselfish and a great leader as well. He makes offense look like he's dribbling through and around pylons then makes the pass or finishes himself.

He's not a good man-to-man defender but he's one of the best when it comes to helping out and drawing offensive fouls.

I didn't even bring up the fact that Kidd is still an amazing man-to-man defender and is always near the top in steals. Never brought up that Nash is a two time MVP and is I believe the only player to shoot 50 from the field, 50 from three and 90 from the line.

I can't stand people that think the NBA is all about flashy dunks and averaging the most points. If you want to see that go watch AND 1 and stop making ridiculous comments.

[flashy]

both seem overrated - cuz look at their teammates
vince & jefferson could take any team to the playoffs
amare, diaw, barbosa, marion, etc could take any team to the playoffs without doubt

look at the fact
nets trying to move kidd
nash trying desperately to prove something but obviously again didn't happen this year
besides they got a lot more touches than anybody on their team, so stats is where its supposed to be... especially with their super talented teammates.

i admit they both good but not championship good
mvp award should go to some1 with most talent & skiis not stats
and stats wise there were many more players with better

don't get me wrong but they both r overrated for sure

Vince and Jefferson can take anyone to the playoffs? If Kidd wasn't there they wouldn't even make the playoffs. Any player who averages a triple double if even only through two playoff series is amazing in my eyes.

Kidd is a leader, you bring anyone into New Jersey and he makes sure they do what they're told that thay play hard, run, defend etc. If anything Kidd is underrated because so many people can't see past the inconsistent shooting.

All some people see looking at Kidd is "This guy can't play offense he sucks jajajaja". When Nets need a bucket he will drive and get the hoop himself or make a pass where someone else will get the points. I'm sure your one of those people that think Kobe is the shit because he scores more than everyone else and that's all you see.

Funny how Phoenix went from a non-contender to a contender with the addition of Nash. This guy is clutch, unselfish and a great leader as well. He makes offense look like he's dribbling through and around pylons then makes the pass or finishes himself.

He's not a good man-to-man defender but he's one of the best when it comes to helping out and drawing offensive fouls.

I didn't even bring up the fact that Kidd is still an amazing man-to-man defender and is always near the top in steals. Never brought up that Nash is a two time MVP and is I believe the only player to shoot 50 from the field, 50 from three and 90 from the line.

I can't stand people that think the NBA is all about flashy dunks and averaging the most points. If you want to see that go watch AND 1 and stop making ridiculous comments.

NNPF = GENIOUS!!!!!!