Rashard Lewis reportely opting out of Sonics!

[Elbeen]

Darko now have earned some trade value because now he is really improving.

[shadowgrin]

And I'm the King of England.

Darko's value is nowhere near Rashard's right now. Maybe if the Magic will throw in a draft pick or another suitable player, maybe that's of equal value now.

[Its_asdf]

I don't think the Magic are going to give up on Darko so easy. He really showed that he can play under pressure against Detriot and did a very good job complimenting Dwight up front. If Darko continues to develop, Dwight and Darko would be a pretty awesome duo up front. I'd rather see the Magic have two up and coming big men than getting a perimeter SF in his prime trying to overvalue himself.

[TSquared]

why cant orlando just give up on hill.. he is very very old anyways.. and he is pretty much getting closer to useless already..

[Sauru]

And I'm the King of England.

Darko's value is nowhere near Rashard's right now. Maybe if the Magic will throw in a draft pick or another suitable player, maybe that's of equal value now.

thing is, the sonics could get nothing for him so any deal they could pull off is better than him just walking aint it?

[maes]

If Rashard just walks he'll have to play for either league minimum (what is that, 400k?) or with a team that can offer MLE, $5M. He makes $10M now, and Seattle could offer $17M assuming they just throw in Fortson's expired contract to Rashard's.

The guys that could outright sign Rashard are probably the Bulls (unlikely they'll sign Rashard over extending the guys they have), Bobcats, and Hawks...and i haven't heard any of those 3 teams ever being interested in Rashard, or even a SF of any kind.

Even the Raptors couldn't sign Lewis to a big contract because Bosh ($12M), Rasho ($8M) and TJ ($8M) take them close to the cap.

I think it's 60% Rashard resigns w/ Seattle and plays there, 40% he's involved with a S&T, 0% he plays for MLE or league minimum.

I heard that the Rockets made an offer of Shane Battier & Howard, which is terrible because in addition to the entire lopsided Battier/Lewis swap Seattle has to take on Howard's contract.

[dan_suth]

Hell, while I'm still bitter about Detroit's loss again this year in the ECF and the way Rasheed's been acting since day 1, I'd almost be in favor of a sign and trade deal, sending Rasheed away and grabbing Rashard Lewis...

[TSquared]

IMO..bulls should trade both deng and nocioni plus pj brown to the grizzlies for gasol and then sign lewis.. so lewis will be attracted to the team and wont demand so much..

[Andrew]

why cant orlando just give up on hill.. he is very very old anyways.. and he is pretty much getting closer to useless already..

He's getting up there but at 35 he's not exactly the oldest player in the league. His numbers in 2006/2007 weren't too bad for someone who's close to useless either. I say if Grant Hill is healthy and wants to continue playing then more power to him. It's not as though he'll be given a huge contract at this stage of the year so he'll be a low risk investment from here on out if he decides to keep playing.

IMO..bulls should trade both deng and nocioni plus pj brown to the grizzlies for gasol and then sign lewis.. so lewis will be attracted to the team and wont demand so much..

The Bulls would still only be able to offer him the MLE and I doubt he's going to settle for that when he can get a much better deal elsewhere. A sign-and-trade is probably the only way he'd go to Chicago.

[TSquared]

ur right there though.. no matter how strong the team wud llok like.. rashard still wants money... sad..

[maes]

ur right there though.. no matter how strong the team wud llok like.. rashard still wants money... sad..

That's every human being, do you work your job for free? Or 1/4 of what it normally pays?

I can't say for you, i love my company but if they ask me to take a 50% paycut, guess what i'm already signing w/ their competitor.

In the SEATTLE TIMES, Percy Allen writes “the Sonics' six-week search for a general manager appears to be coming to an expected conclusion. San Antonio Spurs assistant general manager Sam Presti should receive an offer in the next day or so, and president Lenny Wilkens is staying in touch with prospective coaching candidates and keeping them abreast of the situation.”

Anybody know anything about Sam Presti? Never heard of him, but Spurs personnel sounds like a good start for a new team.

[Sauru]

nba life is different than regular life though maes. if i were to work for half of what i make now i could not even feed my family, let alone put a house over thier heards or buy gas to get to work. if i made half of what anyone in the nba made, anyone at all, i would be set for life. proper investment and even at league min for 10 seasons you never have to work again

[maes]

Alright I agree with you Sauru of course, but let's even take regular income out of the equation.

Part of the reason guys like Garnett & Jason Kidd can't progress is because they make so much damn money the management can't get a decent free agent and still field a strong 9 man rotation. Garnett makes $20M and Kidd makes $18M.

If Garnett takes a paycut to a "mere" $15M, guess what the 2nd best guy on the team goes from Ricky Davis quality ($6M) to somebody like Michael Redd or Steve Nash or Gilbert Arenas ($11M).

Nobody ever called Garnett or Kidd greedy, and they're usually highly praised as guys who are playing to compete, not for paychecks. I don't see how Rashard or any other free agent trying to get $12M is unsportsmanlike if KG & Kidd can play for $20M and be class acts.

[---]

That reminds me of something, a little of topic though.

The other day a friend of mine said "NBA Players are so overpaid". I thought about it and said, "No, not really".

It's a job where there are millions of people competing for a spot. There are a max of 450 spots per year. To become an NBA player, you must devote your life to it. That means if you fail, your life is going to be extra hard since you have probably spent 90% of your time doing something to do with basketball, rather than working, so you will be left behind. You need something to fall back on, but alot of the time NBA hopeful's don't.

The average NBA salary is around $5 million. You may only be in the league for a few seasons. It's a risky business (injuries), theres alot of travel, you don't have much time home with your family... it completely takes over your life. Much more so than any other job I can think of right now.

Now, how many other jobs with a max of 450 employees, high injury risks, extreme demand, so much travel, an extremely short lifespan of a career and the fact you can't properly be with your family most of the year pays less?

There may be some sort of scientist or something that earns alot less, but are there millions upon millions of people around the world dreaming of becoming one of them? I think not.

In my opinion these guys deserve every penny.

[magius]

millions of dollars to play a game? free ride college scholarships... for a game? no way imo do they deserve what they are paid relative to other people. you don't think other people devote their lives to what they do?

don't you think a soldier perhaps 'gives up' (whatever that means, what bball players 'give up' they gain back tenfold) more? basketball players fly to cities, first class, stay at hotels, first class, eat food, first class, work out, first class - free. These are things normal people PAY to do. These people are getting a free ride, and you're saying they actually deserve it? Why? Because its high risk? So is doing coke. It's high risk on the job? So is working on an oil rig. Because you work hard to get there? You don't think med school is hard? and above all that they get a mandatory, what is it, 3 month vacation every year. oh the horror. Its a joke saying these people deserve it, they don't.

[TSquared]

still rashard want money...

[---]

millions of dollars to play a game? free ride college scholarships... for a game? no way imo do they deserve what they are paid relative to other people. you don't think other people devote their lives to what they do?

don't you think a soldier perhaps 'gives up' (whatever that means, what bball players 'give up' they gain back tenfold) more? basketball players fly to cities, first class, stay at hotels, first class, eat food, first class, work out, first class - free. These are things normal people PAY to do. These people are getting a free ride, and you're saying they actually deserve it? Why? Because its high risk? So is doing coke. It's high risk on the job? So is working on an oil rig. Because you work hard to get there? You don't think med school is hard? and above all that they get a mandatory, what is it, 3 month vacation every year. oh the horror. Its a joke saying these people deserve it, they don't.

I still think they deserve to earn millions. About the med school thing, sure it's hard, but it is nowhere near the level of toughness as it is to make the league and stay there. There can be huge amount's of doctors in the world, yet the NBA only has 450 "employees" each year. There is so much more competition to become an NBA player compared to becoming a doctor. You have to be truly special.

I can say, OK, I am going to become a doctor, go to med school and do just that. Same with being a soldier. The reason some jobs are so high paid is because they need specialists. Anyone can become a soldier. You can't say the same about being an NBA player.

As a doctor, you can work for 50 years. Average NBA player? Probably about 9 years.

What if you dedicate your life to becoming an NBA player and fall just short? 2 options - Go to the D League where players are regularly called up and earn 15,000 a year. Or relocate to Europe and live comfortably, yet far away from your family and friends for your entire playing career

As a doctor? You could become a lower grade medical worker.

What if you are raising a family? Your barely ever home, most of the days you aren't playing a home game you are practicing.

As a doctor? Living at home and you can be with your family.

Travel? Not even close. I bet every player in the league would rather be at home with a meal to eat than eating nice food in the best hotels available, on the other side of the country. Nothing replaces family.

What does cocaine have to do with anything? Being a coke addict isn't a job. It's not high risk/high reward, it's just plain high risk.

Working on an oil rig may be high risk, but anyone can work on an oil rig. It's specialists that get paid the big dollars.

As for the 3 month vacation, they still workout everyday and have to keep in shape. They still play basketball. They still have to work hard during their "vacation" to keep a spot in the league.

[magius]

you're talking about doctors in general and comparing them to nba players rather than basketball players in general.

there are more leagues than the nba, just like their are different types of doctors. Just as anyone can become a doctor, anyone can become a basketball player. Are NBA players the elite of their field? sure. but i don't think they can be compared to an elite doctor, because of the service each provides; I would not die if I didn't have basketball players to watch, I would die if I didn't have doctors.

All this glorification of entertainers, personally, its dissapointing. All it is is a control system, a story. These people aren't better than you, they're no different. and they don't deserve more. Do I fault them for getting paid what they do? No. But I fault us for paying them what they do not deserve. We need them yes, but they are no more neccessary than many others who, in fact, earn but a fraction. It's a really a culture feeding on the human nature of lack and its desperately sad. This is the inequality of the modern age, this is the injustice, this is the ism. It is the unnatainable goal that keeps us blind. and the worst thing is we simply bear it. we simply say it is, and let it be.

so what if a nba player has a short term career? This is a choice you make to get paid to do a thing you love. Advertisers, architects, designers these careers are also extremely high turn over in the search for new perspective. Do I say oh me, oh my what ever will that person do? No. That's life. things change, and you evolve. If all a basketball player is capable of doing with his life is play basketball that's... I don't know what it is, I don't have a word to describe it. maybe pathetic. And even if it is pathetic, and i symphasize, I'm not going to give them a free ride just like I'm not going to give a bum on the street 300 dollars for sitting on his ass.

So what if someone dedicates his life to getting into the nba and fails? So what? Get over your failure, discover new success. If you're not capable of that then you deserve to be where you are.

Let me ask you this.... do you think actors deserve to get paid 20 mill per a movie? Because everything you say about NBA players is exactly true to them.

you talk as if a proffessional basketball player is the only one who sacrifices for his profession. Any succesful business owner sacrifices, any succesful person spends time working their craft rather than tending their families. There are plenty of fields, more neccessary then basketball, that travel just as much or more; ambassadors, analysts, the list goes on and on and on. I'm not going to cry for the NBA player. This is a choice you make, this is a part of the job, and its not specific to this field, and as said, this field is not the extreme of said sacrifice.

I don't know how you justify paying any person, ANY PERSON, 10, 20 million dollars a year. I really don't know how you can, considering the state of our WORLD. This money, this money can be better spent. people are truly SUFFERING in front of our eyes, and we're paying some guy 20 million dollars a year to bounce a frickin ball?! WHO is really sacrificing here? how many people would be alive to day if this was different, if our morale compass changed. don't say that this is how the world is, this is how life works - that is how it became that way. nobody DESERVES that kind of money - and if they did, they wouldn't accept it. wake up!

[TSquared]

face it guys.. careers in fame and fortune and the average jobs are different.. comparing those two wud just result in a 100 page thread and still no one wins it... that topic is really really hard...

[Jackal]

Yet I'd rather read them discussing it opposed to your insightful anecdotes.

[---]

I think inequality is a terrible thing, and that the money going to these players would be far more useful going to people that need it desperately. If everyone's financial situation was even, the world would be a better place.

But realistically, teams are going to keep paying these guys the big bucks to have them in their uniform. Not just to win basketball games, but just imagine the revenue big name players bring into the league and to their respective teams. As long as owner are willing to shell out the money for these players, the players deserve every penny of it. There are 450 spots available, yet millions upon millions of hopefuls. The 450 that work so hard that they actually make the league deserve the money if its going to be there, which it always is. Specialists are always paid alot of money. When it comes to athletes, arguably the most "specialized" specialist, of course the are going to rake in the millions - as long as the money is there for them. With the huge amounts of money they bring in for their employer, it only makes sense that they earn a big amount. Their salaries are likely miniscule compared to the money they bring in.

I would not be saying the same if the player were demanding big money that is supposed to be used to help the less fortunate. Sadly, the truth is that isn't where the money would be going if it wasn't going to these basketball players.

I do think it's sad that some people earn 20 million a year while others starve in poverty stricken countries. The thing is, when people are willing to put the money into a proffesional sports franchise, the players deserve the money that they are earning. It's sad but it won't be changing anytime soon.

[Andrew]

At the end of the day, whether pro athletes and entertainers deserve the money their earn is irrelevant in my opinion. The bottom line is that they're in an industry where such ridiculous amounts of money are available to the cream of the crop and few people would turn down such an opportunity if placed in the same position. Personally, I'd place the blame on the industry rather than the individuals. I don't think you can fault anyone for trying to get as much money out of their profession that is available to them, no matter how they earn their living.

That said, there's certainly an element of shortsightedness in the pursuit of the most lucrative deals as maes already pointed out.

[Christopherson]

If everyone's financial situation was even, the world would be a better place.

Oh, you mean like communism.........

Anyways, I think that their salaries are 100% fair. In life, you deserve whatever salary you negotiate. If you can convince someone that you are worth 20 million dollars a year to them, and they agree, how is that wrong? Take Brad Pitt for example. If he is in a movie, chances are its going to be good and lots of people are going to watch it. Market value has already been set for the movie. People are going to pay $7 to watch it in theatres and $18 to buy the DVD. Where is all of the money supposed to go. If Pitt didn't make $20 million it wouldn't be fair to him that someone would profit so greatly from his work while he only made a couple hundred thousand (the average salary of a good doctor).

It works the same way for you and me. Say Andrew goes up to his boss today and convince him that having Andrew work there rather than some average Joe is worth $50,000 a year for his employer. Then Andrew says that is the salary he wants to pay or he is going to go work for a competitor. His boss would pay him what he just negotiated. Same goes for any of the rest of us.

[magius]

so you are telling me that if you can convince someone to do something for you, what you can convince them to do, regardless, can be deemed right? justified? Such thinking implies that, for example, hitler convincing his nation to massacre jews was right. after all it was their choice, and he was able to convince them. This is the state of our culture's thought right now: that things are, and they deserve to be because they are; they wouldn't be if they weren't. People forget to question, settle, and say this is simply how it is. You've got it twisted in the belief that people deserve things because they have it, rather than the other way around.

you speak of communism with such blindness and bitterness, cultured, nurtured by society. don't you ever think to read between the lines? Communism as you know it has been twisted from communism at its beginning, at its heart. You simply know that it has led to evil acts, which is true, but can the same not be said of Christianity? Of democracy even? This is just a system, a device, propaganda, to lift blame from the individual on to a higher, ethereal order; a fairytale, linguistics. where it cannot touch or be touched, and blame is fleeting. What a gutless way of thought. communism never forced anybody to do anything, the blame lies solely on the individual.

I just find it sad when people live in all their fallacies building walls against doing anything right, because they believe it futile. do you think luther king said oh i believe in equal rights for black people, but oh well thats the just way it is? because thats exactly what you're saying here: I believe in equality, but I'm not willing to fight for it; I believe in right, but I don't believe in doing it.

how do you justify making 20 million dollars? because he EARNED it?! are you kidding me? are you really kidding me? look around you! look around you! there is so much more.

I said earlier that I don't blame the individual, and common sense says I shouldn't. but maybe common sense is wrong. you don't blame the individual? who do you blame then? the whole? what is the whole made of? There is no one to blame but the individual. and by that I don't mean just the nba player, but he is anything but blameless. and you're right it starts above with people charging and people paying. and you're right it is a nasty, nihilistic circle, a chain of events. but to give up - to just give up something better, something RIGHT... I have no doubt that the future will look back at us in pity of our blindness. In almost admiration of these bars of control that contain us. A generation built on complacency.

Does commerce and the promise of individual wealth further society? yes, without this hope, this hope of something better, perhaps things would not be as they are. And indeed it is a part of human nature, to hope. I just wish that people would hope for different things.

I just think to say that people deserve this money, I can't handle that. Action-reaction. Everything you give is taken from another. Who deserves that? Who deserves to TAKE so much, when they don't NEED it? when there is still NEED out there? It may be how it IS, but to say that is justified - that is just wrong. It's not. It's NOT. And it is this way of thinking that indeed perpetuates it. If all you can do is admit that, that is a good enough starting point. don't just turn away, don't turn your back. don't. there is blame to be had, take it. and try - TRY - to do better, to believe in better, and to stand up for it.

[Sauru]

i would say that magius just shut down Christopherson pretty hard