Amare calls Bowen, Ginobili, Spurs "dirty"

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Amare calls Bowen, Ginobili, Spurs "dirty"

Postby Isaiah on Fri May 11, 2007 4:37 pm

Stoudemire says Bowen tried to injure him in Game 2
Associated Press

PHOENIX -- Phoenix All-Star Amare Stoudemire says the San Antonio Spurs are a "dirty team" and that Bruce Bowen tried to hurt him, nasty accusations sure to intensify the playoff series between two of the best teams in the NBA.



Stoudemire

Bowen
"He kicked me purposely in the back of my Achilles. I almost came down wrong and he almost caused an injury," Stoudemire said after Thursday's practice. "He's known for doing that. I just hope the NBA and the commissioner take a look at that because it's definitely a dirty play."

The Suns' center, selected to the all-NBA first team Thursday, didn't stop there.

"I think the Spurs are a dirty team," he said. "I mean, (Manu) Ginobili during the regular season kneed me in the crotch on purpose. I just hope the league takes a look at it and cleans the game up a little bit."

The Spurs, who host the Suns in Game 3 of the Western Conference semifinals on Saturday, had finished practice in San Antonio and the players were gone when Stoudemire made his accusations. Tom James, director of media services, said the Spurs had no comment.

The play that led to Stoudemire's charges came in the third quarter of Phoenix's 101-81 victory in Game 2 on Tuesday night, when he was going up for an open dunk. The victory evened the best-of-seven series 1-1.

Stoudemire said he didn't know at the time if the kick was on purpose, but decided after viewing replays that it was.

"When I saw the replay and reviewed it three or four times, there was no doubt about it," he said. "It was a purpose kick to the Achilles' and he definitely tried to injure me."

Stoudemire's feelings were heightened by the fact that he missed all but three games last season while recovering from two knee surgeries.

"I was actually very, very, very upset," he said. "Me personally from last year, having to sit out the whole season because of injuries. And for a guy like Bruce Bowen, who is a two-time champion, he should have more class than that, should understand what it takes to be a professional."

A video on YouTube appears to show Bowen, an NBA all-defensive team selection, kicking Stoudemire's leg from behind.

Stoudemire said he didn't react at the time because he didn't want a suspension or a technical foul that would hurt his team.

"I know it's the playoffs. I understand a hard foul," Stoudemire said. "But that wasn't a hard foul at all. That was just a purpose kick trying to injure someone."

No foul was called on the play.

Stoudemire said the Achilles' was initially sore but was fine during practice. Both teams took the day off on Wednesday.

During the regular season, the New York Knicks' Steve Francis was injured when he stepped on Bowen's foot.

When the teams met again in San Antonio, Knicks coach Isiah Thomas drew a technical foul when he shouted something at Bowen when New York's Jamal Crawford nearly landed on the Spurs' player's foot.

"I thought Jamal went up to take the shot and as he was coming down, Bruce's foot was under him," Thomas said after that game. "And if he were to come down on his foot, he could have broken his ankle or sprained his ankle and he would have been out, just like Francis."

In March of 2006, Bowen was fined $10,000 by the NBA for kicking Seattle's Ray Allen in the back.

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni downplayed the incident involving Stoudemire.

"The league's going to look at it and they're going to examine past tendencies and stuff," he said. "I have no idea what Bruce Bowen does. I don't really care. I don't want to get into it because it's so minimal that it's no big deal. It really isn't."

Raja Bell, also an all-defensive team selection, said he doesn't like to use the words "dirty player."

"I haven't seen the play," he said. "Dirty is not a word I like to use about anybody. They play hard, they're physical. It's a physical time of year, but I didn't get kicked. Amare has the right to feel the way he wants to feel."


the article was from ESPN.com
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Postby Metsis on Fri May 11, 2007 4:56 pm

I read this and watched the video on YouTube and watched some other "all-star" level performance videos of Bruce Bowen and I can say that Amare is on the money with this... Bowen is not playing with a full set of marbles... The ankle sprains are unfortunate and a part of the game, unfortunately like I said before, been on a few too many plays my self on the receiving end... But the kick on Ray Allen was totally uncalled for and the same goes for the KICK ON AMARE...

When you look at the video, the kick is on purpose, wheter it is to harm or not, but its on purpose... The motion of the foot is very un-natural unless you are kicking someone... And kick on Allen shows that this is not a "random" act, but a dirty play...

The problem with people landing on Bowen's foot is due to the fact that Bowen lets the guys have some space and when they go up for a shot, Bowen goes up too and jumps at the shooting player quite hard and thus lands very near the offensive player every time... Once this is done, someone will land on your foot at some point... But this is actually pretty normal in basketball...

I don't know about Ginobili's dirtyness except for the flopping part which seems to be a national past time in Argentina and South America especially among soccer players... But flopping doesn't make for a dirty player in my book... It's a calculated risk on the defenders part... If you draw the foul, yey, but if you don't you are giving up an open shot or even an open lane to the basket...

I always thought that Bowen played a pretty clean defense and that is why he is held in such a high regard for his defensive work, but I guess I was a bit off on that assumption... But if you go around kicking people, you shouldn't be even playing the game... There are enough injuries in basket ball as it is... We don't need people who are purposefully trying to hurt other players around...
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Postby Matt on Fri May 11, 2007 5:18 pm

yeah that was attrocious.....can't believe he hasn't been suspended.
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Postby Andrew on Fri May 11, 2007 7:03 pm

There's been one too many incidents like this one involving Bruce Bowen and it's about time the league did something about it. The way he swung his leg under Amare was, as Amare himself said, measured and there's no place for that in basketball. After all, it's one thing to be physical but another to try and intentionally injure an opponent. The weird thing is that Bowen is a great defender when he's using legitimate tactics, there's no need for him to stoop to dirty plays like this.
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Postby jonthefon on Fri May 11, 2007 7:06 pm

Probably because the NBA hasn't noticed this. Yet.

I'll be so pissed-off if the Spurs win again this year.
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Postby Metsis on Fri May 11, 2007 7:54 pm

Think of it this way... If Amare had come down bad and busted a knee, how much screaming there would be right now about this!!!

There is no place for dirty and injury causing plays in sports anywhere... Its just plain wrong what the man did, and basically sent his rep down the drain for me...
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Postby grusom on Fri May 11, 2007 8:21 pm

There is no doubt that Bruce Bowen is a dirty player, but i don't think he deliberetly tries to injure his opponents. I think he has build this image as a psykological factor - if shooters are worrying whether they will land on his feet etc, it takes their mindof the shot.

I am known as a very physical defender myself, and has taken on a lot of tricks watching Bruce Bowen - I know for sure that you can do a lot of things that your oppnent think is dangerous, without risking to injure him.
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Postby Metsis on Fri May 11, 2007 8:32 pm

grusom wrote:There is no doubt that Bruce Bowen is a dirty player, but i don't think he deliberetly tries to injure his opponents. I think he has build this image as a psykological factor - if shooters are worrying whether they will land on his feet etc, it takes their mindof the shot.

I am known as a very physical defender myself, and has taken on a lot of tricks watching Bruce Bowen - I know for sure that you can do a lot of things that your oppnent think is dangerous, without risking to injure him.


Like kicking them??? If I were to face this kind of guy that stuck his foot under me every time, I'd come down from a shot elbows front and center and see how the guy likes that...

Basically, if you are shooting and you land on someones foot, it should be a foul every time... It is never called, but if you look from the basket ball rules, this is how it should be. Much like if a guy lands on you after you have shot the ball... And the fact about shooting guys is that you are not allowed to initiate contact with a shooting player... And this is essentially a defensive player initiated contact during a shot... And should be called every time... By the book that is...

If you deliberately try to cause injury by sticking your leg under a shooter, you shouldn't be allowed to play the game... Plain and simple...

So you "grusom" support people getting hurt???
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Postby grusom on Fri May 11, 2007 8:45 pm

The point is to hint your are going to put your footwhere they land, not actually do it - and there are a lot of other simular things you can do - like pointing at people eyes with two fingers when they are shooting, instead of just raising your hand.

I don't support trying to hurt people, I just support playing on the intimidation factor on defence - if people think you are a careless ashole, you don't have to act like one.

Per exaple, I have never gotten into a fight on a basketball court, but I have had a lot of player ejected for taking swings at me etc.
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Postby yosifun on Sat May 12, 2007 2:59 am

Bruse Bowen is a dirty player and should be expelled from the league, period. It's not the first time he is trying to hurt another players, he has done this to other players like Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Anthony Parker, Jamal Crawford, Steve Francis and many more..

Bowen can guard well, but he keeps doing those nasty things to other players you got to stop and think "what the fuck is he doing in the NBA?", a basketball player should have respect to other players first and if you don't than you don't deserve to play.

grusom, you sound just like the kind of people I would hate to play with. First you don't agree that Bowen is trying to injure other players although it's very clear it's the case. Secondly, you said:
The point is to hint your are going to put your footwhere they land, not actually do it - and there are a lot of other simular things you can do - like pointing at people eyes with two fingers when they are shooting, instead of just raising your hand

Did you ever think to yourself what would have happen if your hand by mistake will encounter the other player's face?? You could casue serious damage all becasue you couldn't guard the guy like a decent player. You are not supposed to play dangerousy and hope everything will be ok, that makes you as dirty and despicable as Bowen. :evil:
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Postby [Q] on Sat May 12, 2007 5:28 am

I think the "dirtiness" in him has come out in reaction to the fact that you can't hand check people anymore. that obviously takes away some advantage for the defender, so what else is he supposed to do if he can't put his hands on the best players?*

*I am not condoning kicking players or putting your foot where they are landing, because that's just messed up.
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Postby Drex on Sat May 12, 2007 5:57 am

I think it was a natural basketball move. You should see the videos, Bowen does it all the time! :crazy:


The league needs to do something about this.
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Postby [Q] on Sat May 12, 2007 7:24 am

just as "natural" as Kobe elbowing Marko Jaric & Manu Ginobili with a few ticks left in the game while shooting a 3 to tie/win the game. what a bitch. if he's so good, wouldn't he just rely on his skill to win him the game instead of trying to get the refs to bail him out?
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Postby Dro on Sat May 12, 2007 8:24 am

grusom wrote:The point is to hint your are going to put your footwhere they land, not actually do it - and there are a lot of other simular things you can do - like pointing at people eyes with two fingers when they are shooting, instead of just raising your hand.


Wow - please don't disgrace the game like that. That's dispicable.

Whenever I go to the gym to play a pickup game, there's always that group of kids who don't know what the hell they're doing. Those are the kids that you always seem to get a sprained ankle, finger to the eye, or banged knees against. Ridiculous...there's no place in basketball for that.

Basketball wasn't created to be a sport where you win through stupid gimmicks that can get people hurt. You win by skill, and those who use other tactics have no place in basketball. I'm appalled at how supposed "experts" are completely fine with the Spurs playing a "dirty brand of basketball". That's a joke...if a team can't win by pure skill, teamwork, and heart, they don't deserve to be champions. Stern needs to come down and come down hard on Bowen.
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Postby maes on Sat May 12, 2007 8:42 am

LOL someone finally calls Bruce Bowen out...well Pippen did but was a little more tactful.

What, Bowen underkick people?
Wallyworld: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAakQjpFibg

Others:
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Steve Francis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxXvkMB6gA
Jamal Crawford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8ubgYYEdc&NR=1
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Postby BigKaboom2 on Sat May 12, 2007 9:10 am

The Wally one was obviously weird, but none of the other ones look like they have intent whatsoever to them in my opinion. I think Amare needs to stop complaining and play basketball, especially in the playoffs. No sense in whining about other players to the media.
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Postby el badman on Sat May 12, 2007 9:33 am

I don't really agree here. Bowen is obviously a very intense player defensively, and I'm sure some his actions must have led to injuries. But I don't see how he'd be so much different from Raja Bell, James Posey, and other great defenders.
Even John Stockton was notoriously "dirty", and I don't think the NBA did anything to come down on him.
Like BigKaboom said, it's playoff time and I don't think it'd be justified to exclusively target Bowen as the scapegoat. If the league really wanna do something about it, they should certainly look at other players' actions as well.
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Postby Sauru on Sat May 12, 2007 12:05 pm

compareing stockton to bowen is an insult. i know stockton has had his fair share of dirty plays, alot of players do, i never saw him go out and try to hurt someone. after watching the bowen video and clearly seeing him try to kick amare i went and looked at more videos. i noticed that when bowen jumps he tries to stick his foot under the shooting player. i noticed this during a kobe highlight video where bowen was not even jumping straight at kobe but from the side and still managed to get his foot under kobe. this guy is down right dirty and the nba is wrong for doing nothing.
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Postby Axel on Sat May 12, 2007 2:09 pm

I agree completely here. The Spurs have a history of dirty plays. When they're not flopping, they're playing this dirty style of defense. Bowen always seems to get away with a ton of contact unlike most defenders. If it were simply a matter of getting up and pressuring your man like Bowen does, why doesn't everyone do it? Well, I'd say a lot of it has to do with the leeway he's granted. It shows itself here as well with the NBA completely disregarding Amare's claim. Yeah, like this is some radical new accusation or something. Manu also plays like this... just a miniaturized version of Dikembe Mutombo.
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Postby Andreas Dahl on Sat May 12, 2007 6:39 pm

Here's the youtube video of the play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU

Much more obvious than stepping underneath someone shooting..
Now I like him for his defensive hustle and all that, but doing stuff like this just takes away all my respect for him.
He's kind of like a Materazzi-light version :wink:
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Postby grusom on Sat May 12, 2007 8:53 pm

yosifun wrote:grusom, you sound just like the kind of people I would hate to play with. First you don't agree that Bowen is trying to injure other players although it's very clear it's the case. Secondly, you said:
The point is to hint your are going to put your footwhere they land, not actually do it - and there are a lot of other simular things you can do - like pointing at people eyes with two fingers when they are shooting, instead of just raising your hand

Did you ever think to yourself what would have happen if your hand by mistake will encounter the other player's face?? You could casue serious damage all becasue you couldn't guard the guy like a decent player. You are not supposed to play dangerousy and hope everything will be ok, that makes you as dirty and despicable as Bowen. :evil:


No, I am the kind of player you would hate to play against

Well, if people don't like me for modeling my defence after the best defence player in recent history... I really don't care.

I have never injured another player, and never tried to do so, but damn I have altered a lot of jumpshots.
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Postby Drex on Sun May 13, 2007 3:05 am

So how many guys have you kicked recently?
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Postby yosifun on Sun May 13, 2007 6:14 am

Drex wrote:So how many guys have you kicked recently?

:lol:
I have never injured another player, and never tried to do so, but damn I have altered a lot of jumpshots

That doesn't mean you don't play dirty or dangerousy.. it's just a accident waiting to happen the way you are playing
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Postby Sauru on Sun May 13, 2007 12:50 pm

so bowen does ti again tonight, another knee, this time to the crotch of steve nash and again no call. i am sure the nba will again do nothing about it
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Postby Tuomas on Sun May 13, 2007 6:01 pm

That was absolutely disgusting, like why do you want to ever try to get more space with kicking someone in the nuts? I don't like the direction NBA is heading, you can't complain about a call but then something like this...
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