Camby named DPOY.

[Gedas]

When was the last time the DPOY was from a bottom side team?

[shadowgrin]

So you're saying that JO is the best defensive player in the league although the stats show the opposite. I wouldn't be arguing if JO would have been in the top 5 but he was 10th

I think Camby is more of blocker/defender from the weak side that's why his stats are higher.
Jermaine is usually forced to go man-to-man in the paint, which is harder than just staying in the weak side and collapsing on the offense on the paint.

I think I've seen a game where JO literally blocks shots left and right, him being ambidextrous.

[Axel]

I thought Marion should have won it. Tyson Chandler would have been my pick if he hadn't been hurt for some games down the stretch.

Camby was great, but as usual he missed quite a few games. I also thought his numbers were augmented by the fact that nobody else on the Nuggets is worth a shit on defense or rebounding (except Evans, who is only a bench player and doesn't play alongside Camby).

[Anthony15]

Camby was great, but as usual he missed quite a few games. I also thought his numbers were augmented by the fact that nobody else on the Nuggets is worth a shit on defense or rebounding (except Evans, who is only a bench player and doesn't play alongside Camby).

Nene and Anthony rebounded pretty good, Najera, Kleiza added in, Nuggets were 3rd in boards...

[benji]

He only played 966 minutes, but I'm surprised Tyrus Thomas did not get any votes at all. He was probably the best defensive player in the league this season (I would not vote him for DPOY, as that would be, in my opinion, the person who got the most stops per game/total stops) and his defensive stats are gaudy as all hell.

He made a stop on 15.56% of opponents possessions, forced a missed shot on 11.3% of opponents shots, recorded a stop on 65% of his own man's possessions, had 301 stops in those 966 minutes, 4.2 stops per game in just 13.4 minutes per game. His man turned it over 17.4% of the time, and he forced a turnover overall on 4.0% of possessions. He ripped steals on 2.4% of opponent possessions and blocked 4.9% of opponents shots.

For comparison Marcus Camby and Ben Wallace...(Thomas/Camby/Wallace)
MPG: 13.4/33.8/35.0
Stop%: 15.56/13.09/12.96
FMSh%: 11.3/10.0/9.5
MStop%: 65/68/65
Stops: 301/649/700
StopsPG: 4.2/9.3/9.1
MFTov%: 17.4/13.6/15.4
FTov%: 4.0/2.8/3.2
Stl%: 2.4/1.8/2.1
Blk%: 4.9/5.4/3.6

To throw fuel on the fire: Jermaine O'Neal, Shawn Marion and Josh Smith
MPG: 35.6/37.6/36.8
Stop%: 13.07/12.71/14.03
FMSh%: 11.0/8.6/11.3
MStop%: 60/58/61
Stops: 634/784/715
StopsPG: 9.2/9.8/9.9
MFTov%: 13.3/12.0/11.3
FTov%: 3.0/2.8/2.7
Stl%: 1.0/2.5/2.0
Blk%: 4.6/2.3/4.9

[Indy]

So you're saying that JO is the best defensive player in the league although the stats show the opposite. I wouldn't be arguing if JO would have been in the top 5 but he was 10th

I've read this post 5 times, still don't get what the hell you are trying to say.

[Laxation]

Indy, I think it is quite clear that as far as DPOY goes, being able to actually play defence doesnt matter too much. Achoring the team on the defensive end comes second to blocks that go into the 3rd row. Surely you should know this by now...

Give it one or 2 years, and be prepared to watch Dalembert win the award for racking up 3.5bpg

That said, Camby is a good defensive player, and will probably never play 70games again in his life. May as well give it to him now while he had the long season...

[Indy]

Indy, I think it is quite clear that as far as DPOY goes, being able to actually play defence doesnt matter too much. Achoring the team on the defensive end comes second to blocks that go into the 3rd row. Surely you should know this by now...

It didn't used to be. Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Rodman, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Gary Payton and Alvin Robertson were all great defensive players that won the award without putting up great stats. They won because they anchored their defenses and/or were just lockdown guys. Sure Hakeem and Gary got blocks/steals, but that's not why they won the award.

You are right though, the award went downhill once Ben Wallace won for the first time.

[Drex]

Now it's all about stats. Not benji-like stats, but pts-rebs-ast-stl-blk.

[Matt]

good to see DPOY show everyone why he's worthy.......got outrebounded by Manu Ginobili who tapped it to TD for 2 that helped keep the game out of reach.

[The X]

after watching today's Spurs-Nuggets game, Camby did nothing to change the game defensively....Duncan was a machine out there on defensive end....Bowen did a good job keeping Iverson in check as well....

but yeah, good to hear Alvin Robertson mentioned, haven't heard that name in a while....

You are right though, the award went downhill once Ben Wallace won for the first time.

I think it went downhill the second straight time he won it....although we can't forget that this shotblocking trend winning DPOY was starting by shotblocking extraordinaire Dikembe Mutombo

[Matt]

Both Wallace & Deke were excellent rebounders and overall dominant defenders. You can make a case that Wallace wasn't really worthy last season, and Camby this season. Other than that i don't have problems with the selections. Bruce Bowen & TD should have collected 1 each over the past 2 seasons.

[benji]

Alvin Robertson were all great defensive players that won the award without putting up great stats.

At least on that one I wouldn't be quick to say that, Alvin Robertson is the ALL-TIME leader in steals per game for the NBA.

Now it's all about stats. Not benji-like stats

I'm not sure how to take that...

I realized I forgot one, a certain Mr. Duncan:
MPG: 34.1
Stop%: 12.92
FMSh%: 10.6
MStop%: 61
Stops: 675
StopsPG: 8.4
MFTov%: 12.2
FTov%: 2.6
Stl%: 1.3
Blk%: 4.3

[---]

benji, where do you get all these statistics from? 82games I'm thinking? These are stats I have never even heard of, but they sure are interesting. I wonder how they keep them though, things like stop % must be a tough thing to track.

[shadowgrin]

I wonder how they keep them though, things like stop % must be a tough thing to track.

It's not tough when you get paid for it. Some teams do pay for that kind of service.

Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Rodman, Michael Cooper, Michael Jordan,
David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Gary Payton and Alvin Robertson

Ah Michael Cooper, the only Laker I liked in that Showtime era. Guess it's obvious that I was a Celtic/Bird fan.
Other than Moncrief and Cooper, all the other guys put up great defensive stats. Of course they're all great to excellent defenders.

[Indy]

Some of those guys did put up great defensive stats too but that wasn't the reason that they won the award. Dennis Rodman never averaged more then 1 block or 1 steal a game though. Do you think he would have ever won the award these days?

[benji]

Well, the base data comes from 82games and nba.com. Then I had to decide what stops are, for a team I decided a stop was where they forced and rebounded a missed shot or caused a turnover. A player can do this by forcing a missed shot, blocking a shot, forcing a turnover or getting a steal. Total these up and you have the player stops. (I am iffy on the defensive value of a defensive rebound however, the player IS denying an offensive rebound, but 70% of the time that will happen irregardless of what the player does.)

It is not enough just to know this however, we need to know how likely a player is to force a miss, block a shot, etc. And stop% is the big one we always ask, if the opposing team has the ball, how likely is this player to make a stop on their possession.

It's not perfect, especially when you stop looking at specifics and trying to generalize, but it helps us to analyze what players are doing on the defensive end. It's obvious that guys like Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor get stop%'s around 13, while Primoz Brezec is below 9, but it can help to see that Adam Morrison got a 9.8%, Matt Carroll a 10.6% and Derek Anderson a 11.7%. Morrison is not only lousy on offense but he is on defense is well, so there is no reason to play him over the superior offensive Carroll and Anderson, who are average and above average defenders respectively. (If you are trying to win, not develop players that is.) In contrast to Morrison, Rajon Rondo is already a great defender in his first year, posting a 14.4 stop percentage, so one would not want to focus on improving his defense instead his other areas should be a focus.

[shadowgrin]

Dennis Rodman never averaged more then 1 block or 1 steal a game though. Do you think he would have ever won the award these days

I think he still would if he averaged 14-18 rpg like he usually does.

David Stern is still in the NBA. Scratch that thought of Dennis getting the award.

[benji]

But, shadow, he won both his DPOY's when Stern was at the head of the NBA?

[ultimateplaya]

When i was watching last night's match SAN @ DEN i heard the comentator saying that Bruce Bowen has finished second in the DPOY tally for 4 seasons in a row.

[shadowgrin]

But, shadow, he won both his DPOY's when Stern was at the head of the NBA?

But Stern was not insane then.

Today:
Dress code policy? Faulty playoff bracketing (last year)? Synthetic ball? Zero tolerance policy? Planned expansion of the league to Europe?