Carlisle gets the axe.

[Drex]

I know. The point is that you've never said that his style is boring or something like that.

[Indy]

I know. The point is that you've never said that his style is boring or something like that.

Yes I did. Many times. I haven't liked the way the Pacers have been coached since Larry Bird quit. I was happy with Rick his first season here, but that was only because we had the right players for him to coach, and we won 61 games. Other then that, I haven't liked a Pacers coach since Bob Hill, and no I did not like Larry Brown either. Mark Jackson was the real coach of those Larry Brown teams when Jax was there anyways.

[cyanide]

To be fair, it didn't seem like that long you were a huge supporter of Rick, so I can share Drex's sentiments

[Indy]

Ok, well here you go then. http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic3878 ... eason+plan

[cyanide]

That was less than a year ago. I bet months just before that, you were one of his biggest fans

[Indy]

That was less than a year ago. I bet months just before that, you were one of his biggest fans

Well, that was last offseason. The year before that was the brawl year, and he handled that season great, in fact I believe he was one of the top 3 in COTY voting. The year before that we won 61 games.

This is a really dumb argument.

[shadowgrin]

the situation was made more difficult because of his close friendship with Bird. Carlisle said he spoke with Bird on Tuesday and they decided that whichever of them dies first, the other will read the eulogy.

"I've seen other friends part ways and never speak again," Bird said, "but that's not the way it's going to be with us."

I've always seen Carlisle's system as too tight and constricting. Kind of like Larry Brown's but with less X's and O's.

[Matt]

Ideally, Carlise would make a perfect assistant coach. Let him do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't 1. get to run the offence 2. decide on player rotations.

[benji]

...Carlisle because the Raptors play a very different brand of basketball.

Huh? The Raptors were ninth in pace this season, the Pacers ranked...tenth.

[Indy]

Ideally, Carlise would make a perfect assistant coach. Let him do whatever he wants as long as he doesn't 1. get to run the offence 2. decide on player rotations.

This is the smartest thing anyone has said in this thread. Rick was outstanding as the Pacers assistant under Bird.

[cyanide]

Huh? The Raptors were ninth in pace this season, the Pacers ranked...tenth.

The Raptors play a more uptempo full-court running game, and if I'm not mistaken, the Pacers play more of a half-court game.

[benji]

Hmm...Pacers listed first...

Shot Attempts
Jumpers: 70%/69%

Clock Usage:
0-10: 38%/37%
11-15: 27%/27%
16-20: 22%/23%
21-24: 12%/12%

Pace: 92.4/92.6

In '05-'06 maybe...but not this season...the results may have been different (Pacers worst team on offense, Raptors 9th best) but the styles were basically identical this season?

[Indy]

Early in the year we were trying to run more, but we didn't really do it well because that's not what Rick is about. We definitley did not run like Toronto did, we just sucked at shooting so we figured we might as well get them up early in the clock and try to get as many chances as possible.

Really there is only one way to describe the Pacers post-trade offense- awful.

[benji]

How did you not run like Toronto did? 46% of the Pacers shots were jumpers within the first fifteen seconds, 44% of the Raptors shots were jumpers within the first fifteen seconds. The Raptors just made a lot more of them and turned it over less.

Portland was a different team, a slow down team, 29th in pace, 30%-28%-27%-16% on their clock usage. Golden State was a real running team, 1st in pace, 45%-28%-19%-8%.

Sure, they may not have "looked" like they were "running" like Toronto did, but they were. The Raptors were a better rebounding team and near tops in not turning it over (Indiana was at the bottom in turning it over) so they likely had more successful fastbreaks off of those rebounds, but Indiana kept the pace and shot distribution equal.

A rough calculation of the pace (different possession estimator than basketball-reference, simpler one) the Pacers were at 95.6 prior to the all-star break, 94.6 after it. Raptors were at 94.2 for the season.

[Indy]

Just because you take shots early in the shot clock does not mean you are a running team. It means you are either a running team, or a bad offensive team.

Rick Carlisle calls more plays then any other coach in the NBA.

[benji]

Just because you take shots early in the shot clock does not mean you are a running team. It means you are either a running team, or a bad offensive team.

What constitutes a running team? And a bad offensive team doesn't mean early shots (or high pace) it means you simply are not good. (In fact, the best strategy for a bad offensive team is to limit the pace.)

Rick Carlisle calls more plays then any other coach in the NBA.

I provided ample evidence that the Pacers were one of the ten fastest paced teams in the league and comparable to the Toronto Raptors in that regard, you just make claims that they "don't run" or "call more plays" all of which is still unproven and irrelevant to the question at hand. I'm not saying Carlisle is a good or bad coach, I'm saying that this season, the Pacers broke the Carlisle rule and had one of the ten fastest paces. Perception does not alter reality.

I'm just trying to get the base info set before we start making our arguments.

[shadowgrin]

In fact, the best strategy for a bad offensive team is to limit the pace

Gawd, that just reminded me again of Mike Fratello teams.

the Pacers broke the Carlisle rule and had one of the ten fastest paces

I think that's one of the reasons why Carlisle and the players don't have that close rapport this season.

[Indy]

I consider a running team to be one that pushes the ball up the floor and has less of a structured offense. All the players hate playing for Rick because his offense is way too controlling, and he never just lets them play out there. Except when we were getting blown out, which may be one of the reasons those stats are like that.

[maes]

Hey now, Pacers are playing great this year. They're just doing it in Oakland instead of Indiana.