Fixing the Sac Kings

[Num33Baller]

1) Get rid of Musselman. Getting rid of Rick was a big mistake. Bring in a legit coach who has a bit of experience coaching MEN'S basketball... Not to take away from Women's basketball (because i'm not), but women's basketball is a different animal. Its hard to go from one to the other when you get past high school coaching.

2) Get rid of Brad Miller. Get rid of Kenny Thomas. Get rid of Shareef. If a good deal comes along for bibby, trade him too.

3) Definately get rid of Garcia. This guy is a major league prick. Trust me, I have met him.

4) Consider trades. Might be interesting to see if NOH would take Bibby, Miller, Francisco, and Ronnie Price for Chandler, Paul, and bobby jackson.



Any other ideas?

[Dan's Brain]

So basically everyone except Artest and Martin?


I agree that K-Mart is untouchable. But Ron Artest would be the FIRST guy that i would get rid of out of anyone on the team. He's always an incident waiting to happen, and you have to get rid of him while he still has fairly high trade value.

Brad Miller is a still a very serviceable big man in a league where there are virtually none. if you want to compete out West, then you need someone like him there.

Coach is also a problem. They need a hardass coach which Musselman doesnt seem to be.

And you would never ever get the Hornets to make that deal.

[Num33Baller]

Ah, sorry I thought i threw artest into that NOH trade.

Meh.



BTW Miller is utter shit. Hes getting paid 10 million for 9.5 points a game, .6 blocks per game (you're 7 foot talk for goodness sake), 6.4 boards a game (only 1.4 offensive glass), and 43.8% shooting? Seriously.

Come on. Ilgauskas is doing better than that with less minutes, on a team with serious stars... Lebron and Houghes.


Oh. Number 5) Tell artest to stop shooting so much and give the ball to kevin martin.

And Play Kevin Martin more then 25 minutes a game... put him out there for 38 or 40.

[Dan's Brain]

He's still somebody that you can throw at Yao or Amare or Tim Duncan, and do a job. But yeah, you can get cheaper than him.

And the Hornets probably still wouldnt do the deal with Artest included.

[Num33Baller]

He's still somebody that you can throw at Yao or Amare or Tim Duncan, and do a job. But yeah, you can get cheaper than him.

And the Hornets probably still wouldnt do the deal with Artest included.

I dunno about that... Miller is slow and flabby. Did you see Josh Smith dunk all over him? I would feel safer having Artest guard Amare or Shareef guarding Yao.

If he hustled than it might be different but he is on cruise control. The Kings haven't really had a good inside presence since they gave up webber and divac.

And I can't say how pissed off I was when they let gerald wallace go in the expansion draft. They coulda put webber in there... The bobcats wouldn't have grabbed him due to that knee injury anyway...

[Laxation]

Paul is going NOWHERE, ever. Especially not for that crap...

Num, are you aware points arent everything? I dont know if I have ever seen Miller play, but from everything I hear, he is an adequate defender, and an excellent passer. Big men passers are fucking fantastic, and he is one player that I would keep around.

[Indy]

Wow, what a horrible New Orleans trade. You can't really be serious.

As for trading Cisco Garcia, that's a joke too. Who cares if he's an asshole, he's an excellent defender, and a real hustle guy. He energizes that team and is a fan favorite for a reason. With more minutes you'd see his scoring go up.

Brad Miller seems to have gotten fat and lazy with his contract. He's not the same player he was in Indiana by a long shot. He was such a great fit with Jermaine when we had the team with him and Artest along with a young, healthy, smarter decision making Jamaal Tinsley. Not to mention Reggie Miller and a young pre-knee surgery Al Harrington.

Boy do I miss the promise that group had.

[Matt]

1. Get rid of Artest....the kings play better as a group with do it all Salmons starting @ SF. Especially K Mart who is the focus of the offense.

2. Get a legit big man......part of the Kings problem is that they don't have a banger in the paint.....Thomas, Miller, Shareef....all soft and can't play defence. None are going to kill you offensively either.

[Num33Baller]

Wow, what a horrible New Orleans trade. You can't really be serious.

As for trading Cisco Garcia, that's a joke too. Who cares if he's an asshole, he's an excellent defender, and a real hustle guy. He energizes that team and is a fan favorite for a reason. With more minutes you'd see his scoring go up.

Brad Miller seems to have gotten fat and lazy with his contract. He's not the same player he was in Indiana by a long shot. He was such a great fit with Jermaine when we had the team with him and Artest along with a young, healthy, smarter decision making Jamaal Tinsley. Not to mention Reggie Miller and a young pre-knee surgery Al Harrington.

Boy do I miss the promise that group had.

Sorry, but Cisco isn't worth the headaches and the team strife that he causes.

I've played on 3 high school teams here in the states and two junior teams in south america... the teams that went farther didn't have any garcias... The teams that were better talent and skill wise, but didn't go as far did have players with garcia type mentalities.

Ever hear the saying, one bad apple can spoil the bunch?

The same is true in team sports, unfortunately.

Now the NO trade would be a far fetch,,, but it would be really nice to get CP, Chandler, and Jax.... we would be giving up bibby, miller, artest, and garcia.... but it would be worth it... if they didnt go for it i would even throw in this years first round pick (top 2 protected) and next years first and second round picks.

It would be giving up a lot, considering how deep this years draft class is supposed to be, and next years looks quite promising as well...

But imagine having paul, martin, and chandler together... especially a more mature martin.

Plus it would free up 20+ million for the kings to spend on free agents.


However, thats just in my dreams.... Geoff has shown hes pretty good at drafting studs (peja, gerald, kevin martin, hedo, etc), but hes not too smart in making trades.


Thank god he didnt trade bibby for gooden.

[Num33Baller]

1. Get rid of Artest....the kings play better as a group with do it all Salmons starting @ SF. Especially K Mart who is the focus of the offense.

2. Get a legit big man......part of the Kings problem is that they don't have a banger in the paint.....Thomas, Miller, Shareef....all soft and can't play defence. None are going to kill you offensively either.

Completely agree... Although I think salmons was a mistake... We shouldn't have signed him tbh... especially to a freakin long term deal.

Players we need to get rid of... somehow:

Kenny Thomas: 6.7 mil this year, 7.3 next, 7.9 following, and 8.5 after that.

Shareef: 5.4, 5.8, 6.2, 6.6 thru 2010.... dear lord. What was Geoff thinking?

Salmons: 4.4, 4.8, 5.1, 5.5, 5.8.

Vitaly's 3.8 mil contract expires at the end of the season. Don't resign him Geoff. Please don't.

Taylor's 1 mil contract expires at the end of the season... I would like to see him back at the league minimum... Hes a good big to have on the bench tbh.

[BigKaboom2]

I don't think Musselman ever coached women's basketball....did I miss something?

I would get rid of Artest first and get someone who is what Shareef was supposed to be.

[Matt]

I've played on 3 high school teams here in the states and two junior teams in south america... the teams that went farther didn't have any garcias... The teams that were better talent and skill wise, but didn't go as far did have players with garcia type mentalities.

and what has that got to do with the Kings? he's not causing any problems publicly and there is apparent locker room issues.

[Num33Baller]

I don't think Musselman ever coached women's basketball....did I miss something?

I would get rid of Artest first and get someone who is what Shareef was supposed to be.

My mistake. I've confused musselman's coaching past with someone elses...

I've played on 3 high school teams here in the states and two junior teams in south america... the teams that went farther didn't have any garcias... The teams that were better talent and skill wise, but didn't go as far did have players with garcia type mentalities.

and what has that got to do with the Kings? he's not causing any problems publicly and there is apparent locker room issues.

It has a lot to do with the Kings because it doesn't really matter which sport or level a team plays at, they all have the same dynamics as long as the team is in a competitive setting.

It doesn't matter if its High school basketball, College football, or NBA basketball... The dynamics are the same. If you have someone in the team causing problems behind the scenes, the team chemistry will suffer.

If you look at NBA teams who had a lot of talent and potential, but never manage to win a championship, you will usually find that the team had a bad apple in there somewhere. This is especially true in baseball (Recent Yankee teams anyone?). Granted, you have teams that overcome this (Shaq, Kobe, and the Lakers)... but look at the 95 and 96 rockets... They weren't especially talented. But they still won back to back championships.

Look at the late 80s Pistons... Who did they have... Isiah Thomas and.....? Rodman and Lambier, good role players, thats it.

They knocked off great celtics (Bird, McHale, Parrish) and lakers (Magic, Kareem, etc) teams just because they had better chemistry.

[Matt]

1st tell me what kind of trouble Garcia brings? Even Michael Jordan was an ass-hole behind the scenes.

If you look at NBA teams who had a lot of talent and potential, but never manage to win a championship, you will usually find that the team had a bad apple in there somewhere

you forgot to mention that Chicago won 3 rings with Rodman and Detroit won in 2004 with "badass" Sheed.

Look at the late 80s Pistons... Who did they have... Isiah Thomas and.....? Rodman and Lambier, good role players, thats it.

perhaps you forgot Joe Dumars, a HOFer? or Vinnie Johnson one of the best 6th men ever?

[jonthefon]

1st tell me what kind of trouble Garcia brings? Even Michael Jordan was an ass-hole behind the scenes. You forgot to mention that Chicago won 3 rings with Rodman and Detroit won in 2004 with "badass" Sheed.

Apparently (according to Luc Longley's book on Chicago's 72-10 season), Rodman wasn't particularly bad to the team chemistry, just that he was rather...fiery on-court.

[Metsis]

Kings need to blown up big time... The team is heading downstairs in a rapid decline and they need to surround Kevin Martin with some other young and exciting players.

Start by getting rid of the stars... Bibby and Artest should be the first ones to go, since there probably would be someone to take them. And then try to package the less attractive players with them.

But we'll see what the Kings do over the summer... With this team, they are not going to be any better next season. Although I could see Brad Miller return to form with some hopelessly needed health his way...

The good big men are hard to find and Miller does fill a role in the middle... He might not be who he's been at his best, but he still decent. And getting an upgrade for that is not easy... It's not like they can get Dwight or Yao or Bosh for the team...

[Num33Baller]

1st tell me what kind of trouble Garcia brings? Even Michael Jordan was an ass-hole behind the scenes.

If you look at NBA teams who had a lot of talent and potential, but never manage to win a championship, you will usually find that the team had a bad apple in there somewhere

you forgot to mention that Chicago won 3 rings with Rodman and Detroit won in 2004 with "badass" Sheed.

Look at the late 80s Pistons... Who did they have... Isiah Thomas and.....? Rodman and Lambier, good role players, thats it.

perhaps you forgot Joe Dumars, a HOFer? or Vinnie Johnson one of the best 6th men ever?

Garcia is a whiner and believes he is the best thing since sliced bread. He does not like to participate in team activities and is a general douche. He has the ego the size of Kobes and the playing ability the size of Dermarr Johnson.

Rodman also had Jack Haley following him around during his whole career keeping him in line.

I would also like to note that Garcia is a different type of person than Rodman or sheed. They might be a prick on the court, but they didn't cause strife between the team. At least not as much as Garcia does.


Yes, that pistons team had some big names... but they were much like the 2004 pistons team. Before they won the championship, there wasn't too much hype about Ben Wallace, Prince, Billups, or Rip Hamilton. The only "star" they had before that championship was Sheed. They have TREMENDOUS team chemistry. Have you seen them play? Have you seen how they interact off the court? Not one member of that team is out to "get theirs."

1st tell me what kind of trouble Garcia brings? Even Michael Jordan was an ass-hole behind the scenes. You forgot to mention that Chicago won 3 rings with Rodman and Detroit won in 2004 with "badass" Sheed.

Apparently (according to Luc Longley's book on Chicago's 72-10 season), Rodman wasn't particularly bad to the team chemistry, just that he was rather...fiery on-court.

Yes, Jordan was a prick behind the scenes, but still... He wasn't like Garcia. Jordan was fine as long as the team won. Even he wasn't out there to get his. He was a prick because he pushed everyone. He tried to make them better. He is the exact OPPOSITE of Garcia.

Garcia pulls people down, Jordan pulled them up with tough love.

[Num33Baller]

Still downhill.

And its time to trash miller.

Seriously, J. Williams (R backup center) had a much, much better game than miller... about 10 more boards, 6 more points, in the same amount of time against the nuggets.

Hopefully they can still get something for him.

[Fitzy]

miller would be a good fit for a team thats trying to rebuild to take that starters spot until a younger guy comes through, he is still very servicable, but somewhere where they can use him for a reason

[TSquared]

brad miller in my opinion can still contribute.. maybe he's just too lazy to do so.. i mean he's 7ft.. he can still shoot that three ball well.. or maybe he needs to play power forward rather than playing C...

regarding his defense though..not much u can expect from him..he can't guard long centers aka yao ming.. he can't guard quick explosive centers aka amare,dwight.. he can't guard strong centers aka shaq...ummm..he can't guard at all..?

[cyanide]

It's such a sucky situation. They're at mediocrity where they're too low to make a playoff spot but too good for a low draft pick. They're in a really tough situation to make it anywhere big in the next few years.

[Fitzy]

regarding his defense though..not much u can expect from him..he can't guard long centers aka yao ming.. he can't guard quick explosive centers aka amare,dwight.. he can't guard strong centers aka shaq...ummm..he can't guard at all..?

he can guard centres like him, jason collins, pachulia, magloire maybe bogut

[Matt]

the stiffs of the league you mean.

[Fitzy]

someone has to guard them

[shadowgrin]

Is Kevin Martin black ala Jason Kidd or Mike Bibby?
Or ia he Latino?
He looks like a Latino to me.