Article: Kobe better than Jordan?

Utah was very good in terms of team defense. It's only flaw was it's inability to have someone create their own shot other then Malone, which allowed teams to collapse on him and then scramble to the outside shooters. Had Utah had someone who could create on the perimeter, I think they would have beaten Chicago in 1998.

See, I don't agree on part. The Jazz ranked 2nd and 1st on offense in the seasons of their two Finals trips. But they were 11th and 16th on dfense.

However, if Hornacek was a guy who could create two-three more shots a game they could've played the Bulls at least even. They did match the Bulls on a great threesome.

But they still aren't stopping the Bulls. Malone was only a good defender on his man, he had no help defense. And against Rodman/Longley, that's meaningless. Playing Russell/Anderson-Hornacek creates a problem as only one of them can guard one of Jordan-Pippen. Stockton is great, but he can't carry a defense even if his missing 18 games did a number on the Jazz's defense in '98. And while Ostertag provides some help-side (and Foster none) it can't save the team.

Not always no. That's why the playoffs are great. Look at Miami last year when they played Detroit, or Detroit when they played Indiana in 2004. A 10, 11 game difference doesn't mean much in the playoffs, upsets do happen. Look at the 92 Knicks/ Bulls series. They pushed Chicago to the limit in the second round and that was a 16 or 17 game difference.

2004 is a great example. Not even counting the Pistons post-Sheed team and just the entire season the Pistons' point differential said 59-23. The Pacers' said 58-24. Those Knicks teams of the early 90s were the best non-Spurs defenses of the last thirty years so they had a special advantage. Last year's Pistons team had no bench, while the Heat ran deep.

Are there flukes? Obviously, but most of the time, there's a pretty blatant explanation.

Of course positions are meaningless, and the Bulls were able to overcome their defficiences at centre. But lets be honest; the level of talent the Bulls overcame at their weakest positions was amazing. Ewing, Shaq, Alonzo. You compare the Bulls to the suns, but what centre's do the suns face in the West? Yao? After that its players like Dampier, Elson and Marcus Camby. Those guys aren't exactly Alonzo, Ewing or the great Shaq. And with Amare (im aware of him being a power forward playing centre), he is actually a mismatch on the offensive end for those teams. The centres out west aren't the calibur of Zo, Ewing or Shaq.

What about the Suns matchups against the Kobe's, Anthony's, etc.? It doesn't HAVE to be the center position.

On the same line of logic? You compare the opposing teams to those Bulls and who do they have to overcome the two-guard spot? Nobody was on Jordan's level, and guys like John Starks weren't half the player.

Payton did the best job on Jordan in the finals as anyone did

Well, I'd argue it was more the Sonics team-defense. They were the second-best defensive team that year. And by putting him on Jordan the entire game would have a negative effect on his offensive production. So they didn't have one guy to sic' on 'em, match the rest of the teams production and run as deep.

well in offense, in my own opinion, i would say that kobe is better than jordan.
but as a team leader, i would choose jordan rather than kobe because kobe doesn't pass too much. He might made Andrew Bynum a better center but he needs to make his team develop. The team should not always depend on kobe.

well in offense, in my own opinion, i would say that kobe is better than jordan.
but as a team leader, i would choose jordan rather than kobe because kobe doesn't pass too much. He might made Andrew Bynum a better center but he needs to make his team develop. The team should not always depend on kobe.

- Have you seen the scoring averages that Jordan would put up in the late 80's?
- Kobe doesn't make Andrew Bynum better. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (assistant coach) does.
- The team depends on Kobe because he's the best player, but if the team wants to develop more, then Kobe (like you said) should pass more.

Well in case of Andrew Bynum, he has improved his game when Kobe Bryant
dishes out assists last November. Well what I mean is that he should give more passes to his team mates. Because it not good on a team that depends only on one player. Look at LeBron, Pavlovic is improving because LeBron always passes the ball to his team mates.

Last edited by gio23 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Compared to Jordan also, when Jordan was not yet in the league, Scottie Pipen and Dennis Rodman were not that good players. When Jordan entered the league, Rodman and Pipen has improve because Jordan passes
to his team mates. Even though Jordan has his scoring titles, he is also considered a play maker.

sigh.

When Pippen signed with the Bulls as a rookie, Jordan was allready there. Pip didn't play without Jordan untill his first retirement, and in that season, Pippen did very well.

Rodman was allready a star player with the Pistons. Statistically, he had better seasons there than with the Bulls. In his last season as a piston, he averaged almost 19 rebs and 10 points.

- Have you seen the scoring averages that Jordan would put up in the late 80's?
- Kobe doesn't make Andrew Bynum better. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (assistant coach) does.
- The team depends on Kobe because he's the best player, but if the team wants to develop more, then Kobe (like you said) should pass more.[/quote]


Who to pass m8? get a grip, Kobe should pass more-hell yeah but not with this Lakers, who can be consistent scorer besides Kobe there?? haha, Luke- sure not, Smush?? no way, Lamar will grab 18 rebounds and make some dirty business there but hes still too soft in my opinion.

Lakers doesn't have a good team-remember that-those guys are under the average line., u can expect few good games from them and all other is Kobe.

yup you're right Kobe FTW....
I watched the Lakers-Rockets and Odom made a lot of Turnovers.

bah!! kareem makes andrew better? yep true... but that doesnt mean that andrew will be able to up his average... if kobe doesnt pass the ball.. andrew will not improve his average even if he has improved all of his skills.. if kobe doesnt pass him the ball... true?? nor any other laker players..

take this for example...

if i rate all players in the lakers(except KB24) in a rating of.. lets say... 70%(skills)

and the staff of the lakers do everything they can to improve them..

and their ratings go up.. for lets say... 90%...

they still wont improve their shooting averages

if kobe doesnt pass them the ball..

all their hard work wont pay off if kobe doesnt pass them the ball..

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on another topic
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but in my opinion... kobe is still better than jordan..

why?

because mainly.. jordan was playing like he was god simply because he was ahead of the time.. jordan played like modern players.. and most of the players in the league in jordans era played retro..

now..

kobe..playing like god now..is better because...his opponents plays modern type of basketball..the same way kobe plays the game...unlike mj who was playing modern while his opponents were playing retro style of bball..

but in my opinion... kobe is still better than jordan..

why?

because mainly.. jordan was playing like he was god simply because he was ahead of the time.. jordan played like modern players.. and most of the players in the league in jordans era played retro..

now..

kobe..playing like god now..is better because...his opponents plays modern type of basketball..the same way kobe plays the game...unlike mj who was playing modern while his opponents were playing retro style of bball..
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this is the worst argument i've ever read.

by the way, a crusty 40yr old MJ that played for the Wiz still had his way with the league (Kobe too!)....probably because the "modern" players cant defend to save thgeir lives.

this article lost all cred with me when it stated the nba is tougher now. its a worthless read just based on that alone. only a complete idiot would say something so stupid.

by the way, a crusty 40yr old MJ that played for the Wiz still had his way with the league (Kobe too!)

Lol you must have been watching different games to the rest of us Kobe had a triple double AND put 55 on MJ in his comeback seasons, Jordan didn't really do much damage against him.

Jordan vs Kobe:

18.0ppg
2.7rpg
4.0apg

2 points
3 rebounds
3 assists
1-5 shooting

25 points
3 rebounds
3 assists
9-14 shooting

22 points
5 rebounds
6 assists
8-20 shooting

23 points
0 rebounds
4 assists
10-20 shooting

Kobe vs Jordan

29.7ppg
6.0rpg
7.0apg

14 points
2 rebounds
6 assists
6-13 shooting

27 points
6 rebounds
4 assists
8-21 shooting

55 points
5 rebounds
3 assists
15-29 shooting

23 points
11 rebounds
15 assists
9-20 shooting

i agree with sauru.. the league is a lot tougher now than that of the jordan prime

Sauru meant the otherwise, which means you disagree with him...?

Lol you must have been watching different games to the rest of us Kobe had a triple double AND put 55 on MJ in his comeback seasons, Jordan didn't really do much damage against him.

well i watched 2 of the 4 games they played and in both they were roughly equal in head to head battles. Quoting direct stats doesn't show much seeing as though Kobe was mostly guarded by Bryon Russell, and Stackhouse, Hughes & MJ also got a turn. On the other hand Kobe only got to guard MJ, in spots, when he came off the bench.

Obviously i didnt see the 55 pnt game.

I'd imagine if Michael was "having his way" with Kobe at any point in those games they would have kept him on him, considering that he was better (statistically) in every game.

The 4 games (not including ASG's) MJ played against Kobe went as followed:

Game 1, Jordan and the Wiz jumped out to a big 1st half lead. Kobe led them to a comeback win and a triple double.

Game 2: Jordan only had 2 points (career low) and the Wizards fell flat on their face.

Game 3: Jordan came off the bench and played well. Stackhouse had the game winning dunk as time expired.

Game 4: Kobe had that 42 point first half and 55 overall. Jordan played well, but nowhere near as good as Kobe that game.

i think he's 38 yrs old when that happen

Game 3: Jordan came off the bench and played well. Stackhouse had the game winning dunk as time expired.

I think I remember that game, the Lakers didn't lead that whole game...Shaw had hit some big shots to get them close and Horry put them up by one or two points in the final minutes. I thought they had won that game...the ball was taken out from the sidelines I think? Not sure. They got the ball to Stackhouse and he just waltzed his way in to the lane for an uncontested dunk. I was so shocked...and mad. Man, I was mad. How did he just get in there without any trouble?

First I wasn't sure if it counted, but the refs reviewed it and said it did count, so the Lakers lost that game...it would've been one of those "come back from being down" wins for LA...and then they spoiled it with no defense for the final seconds.

I think that's the game...where he met no opposition...if it's another game, sorry for getting them confused, carry on.

I think I remember that game, the Lakers didn't lead that whole game...Shaw had hit some big shots to get them close and Horry put them up by one or two points in the final minutes. I thought they had won that game...the ball was taken out from the sidelines I think? Not sure. They got the ball to Stackhouse and he just waltzed his way in to the lane for an uncontested dunk. I was so shocked...and mad. Man, I was mad. How did he just get in there without any trouble?

First I wasn't sure if it counted, but the refs reviewed it and said it did count, so the Lakers lost that game...it would've been one of those "come back from being down" wins for LA...and then they spoiled it with no defense for the final seconds.

that's the one.....i remember Stacks BS circus shot to end 3rd quarter...then in the 4th Horry hits another triple that almost wins until stack flushes it down.

but in my opinion... kobe is still better than jordan..

why?

because mainly.. jordan was playing like he was god simply because he was ahead of the time.. jordan played like modern players.. and most of the players in the league in jordans era played retro..

now..

kobe..playing like god now..is better because...his opponents plays modern type of basketball..the same way kobe plays the game...unlike mj who was playing modern while his opponents were playing retro style of bball..

Michael Jordan's abilities and style of play did set him apart from other players of his generation but that didn't mean everyone else played an outdated style of basketball; he wasn't an athletic freak playing in the era of set shots and pre-breakaway rims. He also played against tough, gritty defenders who didn't get whistled for a foul just for looking at an offensive player. As Sauru said, to call today's league tougher is a joke. It's not weak nor without its great players but it's not tougher than the 80s or 90s.

Kobe has more offensive move IMO, Jordan better defender, but the things Kobe does, somtimes you think he's better than Jordan

A response:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ortCat=nba
(With an e-mail from Sharone Wright!!!)

Kobe has more offensive move IMO, Jordan better defender, but the things Kobe does, somtimes you think he's better than Jordan

Can't say I feel the same way.

Joe, a North Carolinian, wrote: "The man gambled a good bit of his money away, [allegedly] had a long-term affair with [had to be deleted for fear of a lawsuit], ran the Wizards into the ground, single-handedly destroyed Kwame Brown, and was overcompetitive to the point of violence. Despite all this, we love Michael Jordan. The man could get away with murder anywhere in North Carolina. I should know, I grew up in Durham."

There's some truth to what that reader wrote but to address a couple of the points, is there any conclusive evidence that Michael Jordan gambled away a significant amount of his earnings, enough to affect his family? I doubt he's the only NBA player who has ever thrown away a lot of money, or an amount that would seem like a lot of money to most of us. The affair is none of our business, nor is it behaviour restricted to the rich and famous.

It's become popular to say Michael Jordan ran the Wizards into the ground. That suggests they were an elite team before he took over, which simply wasn't the case. People never seem to mention how the Wizards shed themselves of the contracts of Rod Strickland, Mitch Richmond and Juwan Howard, moves that allowed them to sign Gilbert Arenas. The acquisition of Jerry Stackhouse has since allowed them to acquire Antawn Jamison. Was this all in Michael Jordan's master plan for the Wizards? Probably not, but for a team that was "run into the ground" they sure haven't done too bad for themselves in picking up the pieces.

I love the accusations that he destroyed Kwame Brown. Isn't it about time we stopped making excuses for Brown? He couldn't handle the old school mentality of Jordan and instead of responding to his criticisms, he crawled into a ball and whimpered. We could suggest that Brown doesn't have the heart or the mentality to be a superstar but why do that when we can heap blame on Michael Jordan? Kwame Brown's story should be that of the spoiled athlete who wants to be pampered but instead it's the story of big bad Michael Jordan picking on that poor kid. Isn't it about time Kwame Brown took responsibility for his own career?

Not surprising to see Jemele Hill defend her absurd claims with more absurd claims.

(1) I do not believe the NBA is better now than it was then. It's my fault for not explaining this better. At least a third of you who e-mailed thought I was on crack -- and seriously at least 400-500 e-mails had, "Are you on crack?" in the subject line -- for even entertaining the possibility the NBA is a better product now.

No, it's not. That's not what I'm saying. I believe today's player is more athletic, stronger and has more raw ability than players in the '80s and early '90s. Clearly those players in the Magic, Bird and Isiah era were more polished, tougher and had unbelievable basketball acumen. It was a better game because the players were more skilled. Today, we see guys with extraordinary physical gifts and no fundamentals. So, to sum up: Today's player has more talent, but yesterday's player was a better basketball player.

Because you know, in Michael Jordan's day most of the players were unathletic set shooters who were puzzled by the concept of a crossover dribble. There were tremendous athletes who had exceptional basketball skill back then, just as there are now. And since when did having a knack for the fundamentals display a low level of talent?

(2) That being said, there are teams in the league right now that were better than at least three of the teams Jordan beat in the Finals. The Mavericks, Suns and Spurs are better than Clyde Drexler's Trail Blazers, Gary Payton's Sonics and Charles Barkley's Suns. The coaches: Avery Johnson, Mike D'Antoni and Gregg Popovich versus Rick Adelman, George Karl and Paul Westphal. Not even a debate there. Drexler was horribly overrated -- a slasher, terrific shot-blocker and rebounder for a 6-foot-7 guy, but he was a subpar shooter and mediocre ballhandler. You play the who-would-you-rather-have game with the rosters and you would favor most of the 2007 players. Nash or KJ? Duncan or Kemp? Stoudemire or Kemp? Shawn Marion or Buck Williams? The only untouchables are Payton and Barkley. And by the way, I'm not entirely convinced Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Rockets in '94 or '95 when Hakeem Olajuwon was at the height of his filthiness (I mean that in a good way).

That assessment of Clyde Drexler is ludicrous, if The Glide is anything it's not overrated. I don't entirely disagree on her "comparison" between the coaches (I say "comparison" because she states her opinion rather than providing any argument or evidence) though I think she's underrating the coaches of the Bulls' opponents somewhat as well. Those teams were a lot better than she's willing to give them credit for and that's what it comes down to; you can play "Who would you rather have" and compare the individuals but it comes down to what the team can accomplish and the challenge they posed to the Bulls and every other team in the league.

(4) I'll say it again: Kobe is just as good or better than MJ on the defensive end. Jordan was an unbelievable defender, but some of you seemed to forget he was playing alongside a defender who was just as capable -- Scottie Pippen. If you think that didn't help Jordan beef up his defensive stats, you are delusional.

If anyone's delusion in this whole affair, it isn't the fans who objected to that statement. Yes, Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen combined to form a formidable duo at both ends of the floor and Pip's presence certainly helped MJ in several facets of the game. But as far as beefing up his defensive stats...well, it still comes down to Jordan making the play. I'm reminded of a tongue-in-cheek Alonzo Mourning quote after he won Defensive Player of the Year: "I thank my teammates for letting their men blow by them."

It's also worth noting that Michael Jordan's first season of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks came one season before Pippen's arrival. He averaged 2.6 spg 1.2 bpg in the three seasons before being teamed up with Scottie Pippen. He had the stats and was establishing himself as a one of the league's better defenders before Pippen came into the NBA.

The reason I give Kobe even more credit is (A) he's the only player in the league even remotely interested in being a good defender and (B ) he's been named to the All-Defensive first team four times during an age when every rule is geared to create more offense.

Emphasis is mine. The only player in the league remotely interested in being a good defender? I think Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen and even Raja Bell would beg to differ. Even if she's only referring to superstars I wouldn't say the likes of KG and Duncan shirk their responsibilities at the defensive end.

Will Kobe ever win Defensive Player of the Year? Probably not. But then again, he probably won't win a lot of the awards Jordan received because people really, really hate Kobe. The wall of hate that Kobe faces is why he remains underappreciated.

The Hater card gets played again! And it's as much rubbish as it was the first time. It's not that there's other good players in the league who might - dare I say - be more worthy of certain honours that Kobe, people are just hating on him.

No matter how much surgery he performs on his image, most people always will view him as an egotistical ball hog who got away with a major sexual assault even though he was never convicted. Hey, people just prefer to show blind loyalty to a player some people believe is a degenerate, philandering gambler whose teammates would have killed him if they didn't fear prison.

The fact that the sexual-assault charge against Kobe was dropped was often overlooked by e-mailers.

That's probably the first time I've heard Michael Jordan referred to as a degenerate. No doubt he has his demons that his public image have often shielded but degenerate still seems too strong a term. I think that paragraph is also quite revealing about Hill's feelings towards Jordan and indeed the motivation behind some of her twisted arguments.

It's true that Kobe was never convicted of rape and it's an unfortunate stigma that continues to plague him, but it's strange that Hill criticises Jordan for having an affair whereas Kobe is excused because he wasn't convicted of rape, as though that somehow justifies him and makes him a victim. Yes, it's unfortunate that he got caught up in that mess and faced those allegations. But as a married man he could have avoided the situation quite easily. When it comes to their affairs, MJ and Kobe are neither better nor worse than each other. They both did something wrong and it's irrelevant when discussing how good they are on the court.

And finally, my favorite e-mail, from Amsterdam:

"Hello, I'm Sharone Wright, a former top-six pick in the NBA. I was around Kobe my first and second year with the 76ers (Bryant worked out with the 76ers when he was in high school). Kobe would be the first to be at practice and he would be the last to leave. You want to talk about a will to win? This kid was amazing. He has a mad streak only the good ones have. When he wants to stop you, he will. When he wants 50, he'll give you 50. Simple as that. "I played a lot of games against Jordan, and truthfully Michael was the greatest I've ever seen, but Kobe has everything and even more to his game. The comparisons are so equal. So many critics let their displeasure for Kobe in his personal life blind them when it comes to his game and his place as one of the top-three players of all time. Kobe should be going on his fourth MVP, but they are so blinded by what their perception of Kobe is. Say what you want, but poll 20 NBA players right now, the ones that don't hold a grudge against Kobe, and they will tell you that it isn't even close to him and another player in the league. That's real talk for you."

Gee whiz, if Sharone Wright says it then it must be true. It's no surprise it was her favourite email, Jemele Hill is the Sharone Wright of sportswriters. Alright, I have to admit a Sharone Wright sighting is kind of cool in it's own way.

Funny that Sharone Wright has to respond to bad articles now just to get attention.

"Former top-six pick in the NBA" - I dont think thats what people remember about Sharone Wright.

[quote="xman"][quote="ThaSpecialist"][quote="Jae"][quote]

are you out of your fucking mind saying that AI is better than Kobe

[/quote]

If you look at their career stats yeah absolutely and if A.I. was 6 ft 6 he would be scary as hell.