Kobe 4 straight 50 point games: 65, 50, 60, and 50

I'm guessing it's the team with the worse record, due to the SG that shoots too much .. because well .. that's what happens when you don't score 50-60 every night on 30 shots. You score 20 on 30 shots, and lose to teams like Memphis. Then eventually in the playoffs to talented teams.

Pheonix lost to Philly twice this season. I think its becuase of a little point guard that dribbles too much and doesn't play defense.

Yeah right

Steve Nash is the best player in the NBA in drawing charges. He may not be physically imposing, but he has been among the top in drawing charges all year. As a point guard, it's even harder, as he has to guard people out on the perimeter who are faster, and more athletic. He's also good on double teams.

I didn't read this whole thing because for some reason my eyes hurt. But ThaSpecialist, why are you talking about how ballhogging SG's such as Kobe hurt their team so much, then you go talking about how great Allen Iverson is? Allen Iverson is as big a ballhog as Kobe ever was/is.

with a run to the finals to show for it.

lol .. I didn't read anymore of it either, man.

this Jae dude clearly loses sleep over this shit. lol Kinda outta my league in terms of how much time I'd like to waste talking to a wall.

Look at your sig. 5 threes in the final 3 minutes of the 4th quarter and OT against the Blazers. 2 impossible threes to bring the game to OT and to win the game for the Lakers. Countless times where the Kobe stopper has held Kobe to about 40 points per game. One of the greatest, if not, the greatest 4th quarter comeback in NBA playoff history. It hurts doesn't it. No wonder some Blazer fans hate Kobe and the Lakers so much.

I didn't read this whole thing because for some reason my eyes hurt. But ThaSpecialist, why are you talking about how ballhogging SG's such as Kobe hurt their team so much, then you go talking about how great Allen Iverson is? Allen Iverson is as big a ballhog as Kobe ever was/is.

with a run to the finals to show for it.

lol .. I didn't read anymore of it either, man.

this Jae dude clearly loses sleep over this shit. lol Kinda outta my league in terms of how much time I'd like to waste talking to a wall.

Its a shame actually as it relates to your input in the conversation. You have just as much time as he does to respond, its not like you were posting one-liner or you werent posting 3-4-5 times in a row. He responded to basically every statement you made while pointing out the flaws yet on more than one occasion you ignored those comments that negated your argument and while being selective still made baseless comments that demonstrate your basic knowledge as it relates to the argument. Now you pull the "I dont have any time for this" card because you know your not making sense. I suppose a run to the Finals on a team with the DPOY, COY, 6TH MAN, and MVP justifies Iverson's status as great and I assume greater than Kobe Bryant with 3 rings? I wonder how many sensible/rational people share that view.....

I didn't read this whole thing because for some reason my eyes hurt. But ThaSpecialist, why are you talking about how ballhogging SG's such as Kobe hurt their team so much, then you go talking about how great Allen Iverson is? Allen Iverson is as big a ballhog as Kobe ever was/is.

with a run to the finals to show for it.

lol .. I didn't read anymore of it either, man.

this Jae dude clearly loses sleep over this shit. lol Kinda outta my league in terms of how much time I'd like to waste talking to a wall.

You're a spastic. All you have said is "what about Iverson???!" and you think thats a compelling argument.

Get over yourself, nobody likes you here.

Lol damn you beat me by seconds. I posted and was like why's your post there?


edit: Actually I beat you but meh....

Actually you beat me to it. I feel like Iverson compared to Kobe, comming up second

with a run to the finals to show for it.

But Kobe has 3 rings... Shaq or no Shaq you can't take that away from him. PLease don't come out saying, Shaq took away the defensive pressure that would be used on Kobe, because Kobe did the same for Shaq. It equals out.

Look at your sig. 5 threes in the final 3 minutes of the 4th quarter and OT against the Blazers. 2 impossible threes to bring the game to OT and to win the game for the Lakers. Countless times where the Kobe stopper has held Kobe to about 40 points per game. One of the greatest, if not, the greatest 4th quarter comeback in NBA playoff history. It hurts doesn't it. No wonder some Blazer fans hate Kobe and the Lakers so much.

lol .. yeah .. that's it. I hate Kobe and the Lakers. Even though I'll admit Shaq was the most dominating player in the league at the time, and that by far LA was the superior team.

Its a shame actually as it relates to your input in the conversation. You have just as much time as he does to respond, its not like you were posting one-liner or you werent posting 3-4-5 times in a row. He responded to basically every statement you made while pointing out the flaws yet on more than one occasion you ignored those comments that negated your argument and while being selective still made baseless comments that demonstrate your basic knowledge as it relates to the argument. Now you pull the "I dont have any time for this" card because you know your not making sense. I suppose a run to the Finals on a team with the DPOY, COY, 6TH MAN, and MVP justifies Iverson's status as great and I assume greater than Kobe Bryant with 3 rings? I wonder how many sensible/rational people share that view.....

First of all, I do not have time to go over the guys witty 15 mile long retorts to every sentence I type. I had time enough to do it 24 hours ago. I pretty much lost interest when I realized I was talking to someone who was stubborn and determined, as if having 15,000 posts on a forum isn't evidence of that. I'm not going to waste my time firing back at him when it's more than obvious that he's made up his mind. Maybe you guys enjoy wasting your time with people who aren't the least bit objective or willing to see things differently, but I'm not into that. While you may actually waste your time and read it, and think this and that about "cards", it's all a matter of opinion in the end. It's your opinion that his points are valid. Anyway, in this particular case, it doesnt appear as if either of us are going to budge on what we think. And, I'm not interested in lowering myself to his standards of playing the internet insult game. lol Which leads me to ..

Second of all, if he was even halfway civilized about it, I might feel compelled to waste my time. Instead he comes across as an irritated 16 y/o with a grudge against the world and particularly anyone who shoots down the whole "Kobe is god" argument. I'm beginning to notice that he's not alone in this. The shit is petty dude. lol A complete joke. But, again, 15,000 posts later I can only assume this character is the epitomy of a body of work, and has been launching his opinion around (lol .. hilarious how it's supposed to be concrete but it's just his opinions) for ages and insulting people from behind a computer screen like no tomorrow. Sorry, not interested. I grew out of that like 15 years ago. lol

Third, my argument is that Iverson was a LEADER which Kobe Bryant IS NOT. And nobody here has shot that down yet. All I've heard is that Bryant has Championships. Bryant has scoring titles. Bryant takes 30 shots a game and hits 46% of them. Unfortunately amongst the insults and sidetracking, nobody has illustrated to me how Iverson, who as a leader dragged a shit team to the finals, is somehow behind a guy who has done nothing in the role of a leader. I don't care that Iverson did it once in ten years, or that Bryant has only been on his own for three years. The reality of the situation is that Iverson has done it, Bryant has not. This is fact. How is Bryant a better player/leader? And no, I do not want to hear about Bryant, the leader on a Lakers team that Shaq commanded -- that's as ridiculous as saying Pippen led the Bulls when Jordan was on the floor. It was not like that on the Lakers. Bryant was the 2nd most talented. The 2nd most dominating. We know Shaq was the leader of the Lakers. He put up amazing numbers. He was the #1 option because there was not a Center in the NBA that could guard him, like there was not a guard in the NBA that could guard Jordan during his tenure.

You're a spastic. All you have said is "what about Iverson???!" and you think thats a compelling argument.

Get over yourself, nobody likes you here.

Wow, look at this work of art.

So what's the deal on this forum? Do you have to be an asshole to fit in?

Matthew, what about Iverson? Why can nobody talk to me about this guy?

(LOL .. by the way .. you thought I came here looking to bond or something? With people on the other side of the world at that??)

But Kobe has 3 rings... Shaq or no Shaq you can't take that away from him. PLease don't come out saying, Shaq took away the defensive pressure that would be used on Kobe, because Kobe did the same for Shaq. It equals out.

Here, let me get this out before Captain 15,000 and his witty internet pipes comes along.

IN MY OPINION nothing about this equaled out. Shaquille O'Neal was the leader. He was the unguardable. To argue this is pretty bold. He pretty much did what he wanted, similar to how Jordan did it for years.

Kobe, as he's done over the years, put up shots and scored points as a scoring guard is supposed to. But he certainly was no leader, and he's failed miserably in being a leader since taking over the Lakers for himself. Missing the playoffs his first year, then getting banished and camping at the end of Game 7 last year in the 1st round.

I expected more out of such a talented player, but the guy just isn't cut out to be a leader. His personality is haywire.

In the mean time, Scottie Pippen in his first year without Jordan went right into the playoffs with flying colors while leading the Bulls.

As mentioned before, Allen Iverson took a team to the finals on his own as the leader.

I'm not disputing Bryant's three Championships. I'm just asking why, if he's so good, has he failed to do anything as the leader of the Lakers?

[Patr1ck]

I don't how to debate two players who haven't won a championship versus one who has won 3, regardless of their teammates' abilities or their ability to make a team better or carry them. No single player ever leads a team to a championship. It is always done by the best and most consistent unit of players that can execute on both sides of the floor.

So, I am going to stay on topic. 291 points in 6 games. Not bad, even with an off night. Its obvious what happened. 7 losses in a row, and Phil tells Kobe "Win us some games." 98-199 is just under 50%. That is damn good shooting for a guy determined to lead his team back into the playoffs.

Last edited by Patr1ck on Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This thread is incredible - first the pro-media defense of Nash's undeserved two MVPs, then the story of Iverson alone carrying his absolutely stacked 00-01 Sixers to the Finals, then the epic quintuple post, then the continued discussion of the mysterious "Ainge" that has put together the recent Suns teams.

this Jae dude clearly loses sleep over this shit. lol Kinda outta my league in terms of how much time I'd like to waste talking to a wall.

You posted frigging five times in a row - I doubt Jae loses sleep over what is predominantly common sense analysis of the insane points you bring up.

On top of that, if I have to read "You must of" or "LOL @" one more time, I might just go

Show me something, "kapadre".

You've got 121 posts on this forum and I'm not the least bit impressed so far.


EDIT:

First of all, I do not have time to go over the guys witty 15 mile long retorts to every sentence I type

1. You're still using the "I don't have time" cop-out.

2. The paragraph that included that quote must have been 600 miles long in comparison. I don't understand the logic.

The most ironic thing about the comment re: me losing sleep is that I was posting my replies at about 4pm, which in his timezone would have been nearly 2am

This thread is incredible - first the pro-media defense of Nash's undeserved two MVPs, then the story of Iverson alone carrying his absolutely stacked 00-01 Sixers to the Finals, then the epic quintuple post, then the continued discussion of the mysterious "Ainge" that has put together the recent Suns teams.

this Jae dude clearly loses sleep over this shit. lol Kinda outta my league in terms of how much time I'd like to waste talking to a wall.

You posted frigging five times in a row - I doubt Jae loses sleep over what is predominantly common sense analysis of the insane points you bring up.

On top of that, if I have to read "You must of" or "LOL @" one more time, I might just go

Show me something, "kapadre".

You've got 121 posts on this forum and I'm not the least bit impressed so far.


EDIT:

First of all, I do not have time to go over the guys witty 15 mile long retorts to every sentence I type

1. You're still using the "I don't have time" cop-out.

2. The paragraph that included that quote must have been 600 miles long in comparison. I don't understand the logic.

hilarious. here's another LOL

comedy.

You must of missed the other 2 paragraphs of me explaining that I don't debate with 16 y/o's on a verbal rampage from behind a computer screen.

The most ironic thing about the comment re: me losing sleep is that I was posting my replies at about 4pm, which in his timezone would have been nearly 2am

I suppose working the night shift is a tough thing to comprehend.

I think every post I've created on this forum has been after 10pm.

You must of missed the other 2 paragraphs of me explaining that I don't debate with 16 y/o's on a verbal rampage from behind a computer screen.

Well....that's more or less what I had you pegged as.

You must of missed the other 2 paragraphs of me explaining that I don't debate with 16 y/o's on a verbal rampage from behind a computer screen.

Well....that's more or less what I had you pegged as.[/quote]

the evidence of such is overwelming, I'm sure

120 posts to be exact

You must of missed the other 2 paragraphs of me explaining that I don't debate with 16 y/o's on a verbal rampage from behind a computer screen.

Putting....your words.....in my mouth?

It was 121, not that I really care.

You could perhaps respond to some of the criticisms of your arguments instead of trying to guess our ages.

What's your obsession with post counts? Post counts have nothing to do with how a person is perceived.

I'm a moron and have near 10.000 posts. Andrew's pretty good at discussing things without getting too hot headed about it, the man almost has 25.000 posts.

So really, the perception of one has little to nothing to do with the amount of posts he has, you come off as a dickwad in your posts and play the victim role to a T in some other posts. You're like a fusion between Mike Davis, Lanky Man & Dweaver.

Anyways, I don't really give a shit about you, just had to get that much out.

You could perhaps respond to some of the criticisms of your arguments instead of trying to guess our ages.

I could wait for people around here to hit puberty as well.

Anyways, I don't really give a shit about you, just had to get that much out.

.. and that's all great. Believe me, if you jumped off a bridge tomorrow life would move on.

I find it hilarious that I come across as a dickwad when Captain 15,000 posts originally went off on a sentence-by-sentence rant on how incredibly wrong and dillusional I must be, complete with grade school name-caling and all.

Is it because I've defended myself and given up on arguing with someone who needs a timeout in a corner? A few deep breathes?

Let's just say that I'll take the dickwad statement as a compliment at this point. At least I'm doing it in a mature fashion.

From what I can see around here, being a fucking brat is cool and nurtured .. lol What a joke. Maybe you all should take a hint and grow up.

You're about the 5th or 6th forum reg that's marched into this thread and, from the looks of how this "debate" went, instantly pegged me as a "threat".

I imagine I should be banned next for being grown up and wanting to debate in a civilized manner.

You could perhaps respond to some of the criticisms of your arguments instead of trying to guess our ages.

I could wait for people around here to hit puberty as well.

Anyways, I don't really give a shit about you, just had to get that much out.

.. and that's all great. Believe me, if you jumped off a bridge tomorrow life would move on.

I find it hilarious that I come across as a dickwad when Captain 15,000 posts originally went off on a sentence-by-sentence rant on how incredibly wrong and dillusional I must be, complete with grade school name-caling and all.

Is it because I've defended myself and given up on arguing with someone who needs a timeout in a corner? A few deep breathes?

Let's just say that I'll take the dickwad statement as a compliment at this point. At least I'm doing it in a mature fashion.

From what I can see around here, being a fucking brat is cool and nurtured .. lol What a joke. Maybe you all should take a hint and grow up.

You're about the 5th or 6th forum reg that's marched into this thread and, from the looks of how this "debate" went, instantly pegged me as a "threat".

I imagine I should be banned next for being grown up and wanting to debate in a civilized manner.

Dude........do you realise that you are doing exactly the same thing? You are just responding in exactly the same way as Jae.......

I have no problems with the way Jae has responded but apparently, from what you have said, you do. So why keep responding in a similar fashion? If you want to act "grown up" maybe stop talking about how grown up you are and picking out all the great things that you do like how you are "doing things in a mature fashion". Just do things in a mature fashion, don't tell us all about it...

I find it hilarious that I come across as a dickwad when Captain 15,000 posts originally went off on a sentence-by-sentence rant

I imagine I should be banned next for being grown up and wanting to debate in a civilized manner.

Oh ok, so I "rant" and you "debate". Must of got it wrong then LOL.

How old are you exactly? You keep bringing up age, enlighten us.

Don't create Dweaver part II Jae, don't.

He's grown up, leave it be at that. Now everyone bow down to his vastly superior ability to be mature and not be childish amongst a forum of kids. Bow down I said.

I will bow down once we all hit puberty, no sooner.

It amazes me how he still calls the Sixers team with DPOY, COY, 6TH MAN a shit team that Mr. MVP lead to the Finals. Amazing. I coulda swore there was a limit to stupidity but he surely broke that boundary.

IN MY OPINION nothing about this equaled out. Shaquille O'Neal was the leader. He was the unguardable. To argue this is pretty bold. He pretty much did what he wanted, similar to how Jordan did it for years.

I'm not going to argue that Shaq was unguardable, but if Kobe wasn't out there Shaw would of been swarmed like crazy since the Lakers would of lost ~30ppg from one of the best perimeter scorers of all time. To say Kobe didn't make Shaqs job any easier is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

Kobe, as he's done over the years, put up shots and scored points as a scoring guard is supposed to. But he certainly was no leader, and he's failed miserably in being a leader since taking over the Lakers for himself. Missing the playoffs his first year, then getting banished and camping at the end of Game 7 last year in the 1st round.

I expected more out of such a talented player, but the guy just isn't cut out to be a leader. His personality is haywire.

Kobe could be the best leader in NBA history and still couldn't satisfy you. The truth is the Lakers have almost nothing outside of Lamar and Kobe, thats why he hasn't won a championship since the Shaq days. The roster is too weak. Kobe is a great individual talent, but one man can't do it all.

In the mean time, Scottie Pippen in his first year without Jordan went right into the playoffs with flying colors while leading the Bulls.

As mentioned before, Allen Iverson took a team to the finals on his own as the leader.

I'm not disputing Bryant's three Championships. I'm just asking why, if he's so good, has he failed to do anything as the leader of the Lakers?

That Philly team tht went to the finals wasn't bad. You act like it was AI and some D-Leaguers that made it to the finals.

He has failed to do anything as the leader of the Lakers because of the same thing MJ went through. Mike was great, but the Bulls just didn't have the pieces, and they would have to get past some very strong teams in the East. Much like todays Western Conference.

I'm not going to waste my time firing back at him when it's more than obvious that he's made up his mind. Maybe you guys enjoy wasting your time with people who aren't the least bit objective or willing to see things differently, but I'm not into that.

Seeing things differently, objectively? What are you doing all the time then? I agree on the point you made on Iverson, but you? You have yet given in because you have yet given in anything, all you do is state your opinions, that have no proof outside your opinion.

Now it seems that you are arguing against about 5 people at times. Your opinion doesn't seem the absolute truth, does it? How come the majority in this topic disagree with you? I guess we're all wrong with our misguided opinions about the NBA, Kobe Bryant and his achievements, and his position in NBA history. It takes quite a preacher to change heads of dozens of people, right now it seems unlikely.

Third, my argument is that Iverson was a LEADER which Kobe Bryant IS NOT. And nobody here has shot that down yet. All I've heard is that Bryant has Championships. Bryant has scoring titles. Bryant takes 30 shots a game and hits 46% of them. Unfortunately amongst the insults and sidetracking, nobody has illustrated to me how Iverson, who as a leader dragged a shit team to the finals, is somehow behind a guy who has done nothing in the role of a leader. I don't care that Iverson did it once in ten years, or that Bryant has only been on his own for three years. The reality of the situation is that Iverson has done it, Bryant has not. This is fact.

You bring up this season's shooting percentages, while it has already been posted that Jordan, among other superstars past and present have shot worse in a season. And again you're making the same statements about Iverson, and how nobody has illustrated blah blah... It has been argued, maybe you should listen for a fucking while.

And yes, I like Iverson and the fact he did take his team to the finals (even I'm starting to repeat myself with this) but yet he a better leader? You do remember Philly's worse years right? Iverson hasn't always been there, unwilling to compromise with his coach and team.

"Kobe has championships and rings." Yes, and isn't that a sign of a great player? No? Oh I forgot it takes to take a shit team with COY, DPY, Sixth Man and MVP. Philly's team was not shit, not even close. While Iverson was their only viable scoring option, it was not a shit team, they had great role players and working guys. That time AI was on top of his game and everything clicked.

The reason I rank Kobe above AI and numerous others are his offensive and defensive abilities, which are superior, his individual and team achievements 5 years ago. You've already expressed your denial about Kobe's role in those three rings, but I'll disagree on this one, like you have disagreed with everybody on everything. Winning championships is about the whole result, the whole team, and Kobe's role in those teams was vital. No Kobe, no rings.[/i]