Durant tells team he will return

[Dean]

Monta Ellis is a gun shooter.

[Indy]

Indy,

Here is a small recent list of examples

Travis Outlaw
Gerald Green
Sebastian Telfair
Monta Ellis
Josh Smith
Shaun Livingston
Dorell Wright
Darius Miles

Gerald Green and Monta Ellis are both very good shooters. Both are streaky because they are young, but neither would be any better if they had gone to school and had a shooting coach. Monta is actually a friend of mine, and I can tell you from experience that the guy can straight up hit jumpers. Period.

I'm not so sure about labeling Kobe as such either. 45% on the career isn't much to brag about -- considering how often he dunks/lays the ball up as well to get up to that 45%. But that's not exactly "sharp shooting".

Kobe has been forced to take a lot of shots because of the guys he is surrounded with, but you can't watch Kobe play and say he would be a better shooter with a shooting coach. The guy is complete money in late game situations, and is a great midrange jump shooter game in game out. When he played for the Laker teams with Shaq and company, he shot around 47 percent, pretty close to the career numbers of guys like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird.

It may seem "ridiculous" and "off base" because you're not a shooting coach that recognizes poor rotation, poor form and a rushed release .. the use of too little leg and too much upper body .. etc.

Actually I am a shooting coach, and I've played basketball at the highest levels possible for my age. In fact Butler just beat Maryland to make it to the sweet 16, and if it wasn't for a personal problem I had with the coach, I'd be on that team right now, and guess what my game revolves around? Shooting the ball from the outside.

You also mention poor form, and the use of too little leg. Well, Reggie Miller has made the most threes in the history of the NBA with terrible form, and Larry Bird didn't use any leg at all when he shot the ball.

[Dan's Brain]

Just on Durant. The Celtics have been fined $30,000 for "excessive contact" with Durant's family.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... ts_family/

I just like that they've called it excessive contact. Sounds like Danny Ainge has been beating the crap out of them, trying to get Durant to declare.

[Metsis]

Good form in shooting is always a good thing, but it's not everything... You need to find your shot. That is the key in all the shooting. If you are trying to force your self to shooting a particular way, you are trying to do something that doesn't come naturally to you.

The really excellent shooters like Reggie and Birdy and Peja and all those guys really don't shoot it like the shot was meant to be shot. So the form isn't everything. Of course a good form can and more likely will produce some results at least. Ray Allen still has one of the sweetest strokes around and he is a top shooter...

So there are no guarrantees in shot practise. One thing common to all is practise and practise and practise... If you practise hard and long enough, you will become a better shooter. If you don't get enough repeats for shooting, you will not develop, no matter how great your shooting form is or isn't.

Kobe, T-Mac etc. are not the best spot up shooters in the league, but they are the best at beating defenses with their shooting. And a huge chunk of this "beating the defense" is that you can take it to the basket and that you can hit it from the outside, thus you need to be covered. If you can score by any and all means imaginable you will be tough to cover, no matter who is defending you. And this is why Kobe's and T-Mac's and Jordan's are who they are... It's not like they are the best pure shooters in the league. I could bet you that Steve Kerr would have beat MJ in a shooting contest 9 times out of 10...

Oden and Durant are coming out... They would have come out last year if it had been still an option. If you are rated as the #1 pick or the pick that would be #1 without some guy like LeBron or Oden coming out, it doesn't get any better than that. I don't think these guys are that hooked up on staying in school that they would risk and shorten their NBA careers by staying in school one more year.

And if Oden and Durant have the work ethic that they are said to have, they will be impact players from the start or will rise to the occation during their rookie seasons... Only few players are able to contribute right away when getting to the NBA, but people grow into it eventually if they will ever be succesful. With the torrid pace of the NBA schedule the rookies might not get enough time to work on their games that they would get in college, but NBA is still a whole other ball game and experience gained on the NBA hardwood cannot be replaced by anything done in college.

[maes]

Ainge cracks me up...he's schmoozing Durant's family already.

BTW, i interpret "I leave the decision to my family" = "I'm going pro even though i just said i was staying at Texas."

I don't blame him, he should go pro, he's obviously not at his level in college.

[Andrew]

I just like that they've called it excessive contact. Sounds like Danny Ainge has been beating the crap out of them, trying to get Durant to declare.

Should we dismiss that suggestion so readily?

[Dan's Brain]

I just like that they've called it excessive contact. Sounds like Danny Ainge has been beating the crap out of them, trying to get Durant to declare.

Should we dismiss that suggestion so readily?

Maybe not, but Danny Ainge always struck me as more of an outside shooter as a player.

So unless he's actually throwing basketballs at them through the windows of their house from 25 feet away.... Now there's a thought.

[ThaSpecialist]

Gerald Green and Monta Ellis are both very good shooters. Both are streaky because they are young, but neither would be any better if they had gone to school and had a shooting coach. Monta is actually a friend of mine, and I can tell you from experience that the guy can straight up hit jumpers. Period.

This is false.

1) Being young has nothing to do with being streaky. There are 30 y/o ballers in the NBA that're streaky to this day. It's the results of an unpolished shot. Lack of repetition. Lack of working on it. Or in Green and Ellis' case, lack of repetition due to their age and inexperience, as skipping out on college leads to.

2) Repetition is the key to perfecting your jump shot. The fact that these guys came straight out of highschool, and skipped out on 3-4 years of repetition at the College level, speaks volumes on why they cannot shoot for dear life in the pros (or as you call 'em, streaky)

3) Interesting that the two guys you pointed out are the ones that often light up the highlight reel with the dunks, usually evidence of bloated and misleading shooting percentages. Although I will admit that Green has been lighting it up from beyond the arc. I personally think the kid has it in him to become another T-mac. However that's seen in your eyes .. bad or good.

Kobe has been forced to take a lot of shots because of the guys he is surrounded with, but you can't watch Kobe play and say he would be a better shooter with a shooting coach.

Something interesting about Kobe (that feeds my argument) is that when he first came into the NBA his shot was far from decent. He was your typical highschool-to-pro basketball player that needed a few years of practice to work on his jump shot. Repetition and proper coaching.

It's true that Bryant can shoot decent from the field today, but he was not lighting up the shooting %'s until he really focused on getting better in between games.

I never said that these youngs guys who can't shoot are to remain as such throughout their careers.

My argument is that the surplus of them coming out per year is watering down the league drastically in the shooting department. For every Green/Ellis that comes out, there are seven to eight Outlaw's and Miles'. I realize that 10 highschoolers a year aren't coming out (at least those that shoot the ball). Which is why I say keep them in college for 3-4 years. The one-and-done college players are often as unpolished and inexperienced as the highschool-to-pro players.

Also, you mentioned Kevin Garnett as a dangerous mid-range shooter. Another prime example. KG scared exactly nobody from the top of the key when he came into the league. Now it's his money shot usually. A few years of struggling and repetition led to that.

The guy is complete money in late game situations

This can't be denied, however I once saw a stat on another forum that explained how he also takes (and has taken) an insane amount of game-winning attempts throughout his career, so it's almost expected that his "game winning shot total" is through the roof. (also, were you aware that Bryant's FG% historically has dropped drastically in his playoff career?)

When he played for the Laker teams with Shaq and company, he shot around 47 percent, pretty close to the career numbers of guys like Michael Jordan and Larry Bird.

Two things about this.

1) His increase in shooting % had everything to do with what playing around a player like Shaq creates. Open shots galore. More open shots than what he's seeing now, for sure. So it's expected that his shooting % were impressive considering how often he shot the ball, and how often he was left open due to teams doubling down on the diesel. Everywhere Shaquille O'Neal has played, shooters around him (including team FG % outside of his own FGs/Att) have thrived. In fact Antoine Walker actually looked like a respectable shooter (% wise) last year in the playoffs due to being left wide open non-stop. Of all the guys in the NBA that jack up shots, and can't shoot to save their life, he's probably the worst.

2) Lets .. not .. pretend Bryant is even anywhere on Jordan and Bird's level, be it in terms of shooting ability, heart, attitude .. whatever. lol Both were essentially career 50% shooters and faced double teams throughout their careers, which is something Kobe was relieved of when playing along side Shaq, coincidently when his shooting % actually looked respectable.

Actually I am a shooting coach, and I've played basketball at the highest levels possible for my age. In fact Butler just beat Maryland to make it to the sweet 16, and if it wasn't for a personal problem I had with the coach, I'd be on that team right now, and guess what my game revolves around? Shooting the ball from the outside.

Cool, so we have something in common. I've never played College b-ball to any extent but I'm from Syracuse and spent many a day on the campus with friends playing against guys like Preston Shumpert, Damone Brown, Billy Edelin, Kuath Duany, Ethan Cole. Also played in a couple of semi-pro caliber leagues in Upstate NY with Omar Cook.

These days I have a handful of friends who coach at the highschool level, and I'm usually yanked in to teach some of the fledglings about shooting, releasing quicker, etc.

You also mention poor form, and the use of too little leg. Well, Reggie Miller has made the most threes in the history of the NBA with terrible form, and Larry Bird didn't use any leg at all when he shot the ball.

Miller and Bird were obviously quite rare.

Unfortunately the Mark Prices, Chris Mullins, Jeff Hornaceks, Ray Allens, Steve Kerrs, John Paxsons, Rip Hamiltons, Tim Duncans, Dirk Nowitzkis, Steve Nashs, Terry Porters and so forth out-number them 10 to 1. What these guys have in common .. they keep an elbow at 90 degrees, they get flawless rotation on the ball due to spreading their fingers accordingly, and they release at their peak to create maximum lift under the ball (more lift, fewer chance of hitting the rim)

Their shooting is more "proper". This is also the style that nearly all shooters in the league aim for. (unless you're Tayshaun Prince .. lol)

[ThaSpecialist]

Good form in shooting is always a good thing, but it's not everything... You need to find your shot. That is the key in all the shooting. If you are trying to force your self to shooting a particular way, you are trying to do something that doesn't come naturally to you.

This is true. One thing about many European shooters is that their shooting coaches are working with them from the very beginning. As they are learning to shoot in a way that is "natural" they are being coached simultaneously. (rotation, release) The coaching tips more or less polish off the work done through repetition ..

.. of course this is in Europe, where 15 y/o's play at the pro level.

The really excellent shooters like Reggie and Birdy and Peja and all those guys really don't shoot it like the shot was meant to be shot. So the form isn't everything. Of course a good form can and more likely will produce some results at least. Ray Allen still has one of the sweetest strokes around and he is a top shooter...

Also true about Reggie, Bird and Peja, but the guys that are bombing away in the league with more proper form, and have done so over the years out number these shooters 10 to 1 easily.

So there are no guarrantees in shot practise. One thing common to all is practise and practise and practise... If you practise hard and long enough, you will become a better shooter. If you don't get enough repeats for shooting, you will not develop, no matter how great your shooting form is or isn't.

Which feeds my point precisely. The highschool-to-pro players skip out on 3-4 years worth of repetition. (gained in college if they'd of attended)

Conveniently enough nearly all stud highschool-to-pro players in this day and age (Kobe, T-Mac, Garnett, O'Neal) needed a few years to find their range and form. Had they followed the Hamilton/Duncan route through College, they'd of entered the pro's with lethal jump shots already installed, and not toiled through their first few years learning the hard way at the NBA level.

Kobe, T-Mac etc. are not the best spot up shooters in the league, but they are the best at beating defenses with their shooting. And a huge chunk of this "beating the defense" is that you can take it to the basket and that you can hit it from the outside, thus you need to be covered. If you can score by any and all means imaginable you will be tough to cover, no matter who is defending you. And this is why Kobe's and T-Mac's and Jordan's are who they are... It's not like they are the best pure shooters in the league. I could bet you that Steve Kerr would have beat MJ in a shooting contest 9 times out of 10...

.. which is all that we're really talking about here. (the answer to being covered all the time is simply ball movement) The amount of players incapable of hitting wide open jump shots anymore. The # is staggering. The pure shooters of the NBA can be counted on a set of hands these days.

And it has everything to do with the amount of young, unprepared players coming out year after year, and needing 3+ years to develope. Some of them (Miles, Outlaw) never even developing at all.

[Metsis]

.. which is all that we're really talking about here. (the answer to being covered all the time is simply ball movement) The amount of players incapable of hitting wide open jump shots anymore. The # is staggering. The pure shooters of the NBA can be counted on a set of hands these days.

And it has everything to do with the amount of young, unprepared players coming out year after year, and needing 3+ years to develope. Some of them (Miles, Outlaw) never even developing at all.

And this is the reason why America can't win a thing when playing for anything international. You need your shooters to beat zone defenses and if your best shooters are streaky at best from the outside you're gonna get killed by zone defenses.

By the way, what happened to "the un-athletic small white guy that can hit the three every time when left open type" player??? There are no Steve Kerr's or Mark Price's around in the league today. One that is in that ball park is like Kyle Korver... But where are the rest??? Where are the shooting specialists?

But I have to mention this... There are no guarrantees in life... If you were to stay in school and get an education and practise hard, its no guarrantee that your stock will be any higher than it was when you were 19 regarding NBA and at 23 you have already wasted that "potential guy" label you might have had. Only a hand picked few from the College game make the NBA and a few of those guys actually become stars. There are stories around the league about Arenas, T-Mac, Ben Wallace etc. that predicted gloom and doom for them from the start of their professional careers, but there are a dozen players that get this prediction and it does come true. Even if you get drafted, its no guarrantee that you will actually have a long and succesful career ahead of you. That's only the point after which playing basket ball is your job. It's your job to work your game and do what coaches tell you to do... It's no longer supposed to be fun and you can't go out with your friends during the week since your friends are probably thousands of miles away. But if you truly love the game and have the work ethic, there is no one else standing in your way besides you... If you work on your game, you will become better... If you practise hard, you will become more consistent... If you want it bad enough, you will force yourself to it...

Love the game and practise hard... You will see results... Even if it's not the NBA, you will still enjoy playing better... To me it's a hobby, to me basketball is a challenge and I take it on, every day...

[ThaSpecialist]

And this is the reason why America can't win a thing when playing for anything international. You need your shooters to beat zone defenses and if your best shooters are streaky at best from the outside you're gonna get killed by zone defenses.

Yep. International teams have been embarrassing the USA for years now. And it's hilarious to walk around gyms and hear kids/people talk about it. A lot of them just can't understand how a team with all these stud names can lose to a "bunch of Europeans".

.. it's because they can't shoot the ball when they need to. Plus, a lot of them have these egos .. good god. And very few of them know how to lead a team, which is pretty much what every member of the legendary USA's Olympic "Dream Team" specialized in.

By the way, what happened to "the un-athletic small white guy that can hit the three every time when left open type" player??? There are no Steve Kerr's or Mark Price's around in the league today. One that is in that ball park is like Kyle Korver... But where are the rest??? Where are the shooting specialists?

Dude, they are simply not getting drafted. The lanky non-shooters and swingmen are pushing them out of the ranks. It's ridiculous.

Take this for example. I am a huge Syracuse fan. Our Gerry McNamara dropped 15+ ppg throughout his career, 6 apg his final year in College .. the epitomy of a Kerr-type specialist who could even run the point at times (as a reserve, I'll admit). Definately a range type of guard at 6'2". A near Kirk Hinrich/Ridnour clone. He was half the reason SU had any success following Melo's departure. He was the guy that kept getting one dimensional garbage such as Hakim Warrick (dunk artist, nothing more) the ball. This guy was clutch down the stretch repeatedly in NCAA tourney games. He knew when to take the shot, and he knew when to give up the ball.

McNamara went undrafted, but 6'9", 210lb leap artist Hakim Warrick somehow went in the 2nd round of the NBA draft. Warrick has no jump shot at all .. never did he ever developed it .. cannot even put the ball on the floor, and certainly does not have the weight to survive in the post at the NBA level.

McNamara went #1 overall in the NBDL's draft .. lol And eventually in the 6th Rd of the CBA draft the same year, a month later.

It's amazing that a kid like this can go undrafted, but guys like Telfair can get an NBA contract and minutes. Their may be better guards out there than McNamara, but Telfair? A 6' tall kid straight out of highschool with no jump shot at all?

[Christopherson]

I think the problem is that GM's are constantly trying to find that next steal in the draft. They look at a kid and see how much potential he has. They wee what he might become. They look at Gerry and see what he is. They know he is never going to become an all star or anything. Then they have to give these kids playing time in order to justify drafting them so high, otherwise they risk losing their job.

A team needs players with well defined roles and teammates who can trust them to do their job. Thats why I do love a guy like Steve Kerr. Both he and his teammates knew what he was yesterday, is today, and will be tomarrow. You look at a kid like Telfair and you say wow, he has the potential to be awesome and take over games. You just never know when its going to happen.

GM's and coaches these days are under so much pressure they feel like they have to swing for a home run every time. The reality of it all is that sometimes your best best is to shoot for base hits. Hell sometimes ya gotta even throw down a bunt. In baseball, you bunt to advance a runner while sacrificing an out. Best case scenario is you end up with a single. That is what a guy like a Gerry MacNamera is. He's a bunt. Are you telling me the Cavs wouldnt be better off with him in the lineup than Daniel Gibson? Someone to knock down a cluth 3 here and there? Sure he doesn't have the potential of Gibson, best case scenario Gerry turns into a 5th option starting point guard.

Anyways, I tend to agree. Shooters in the NBA suck these days. Hell most players in the NBA suck these days. All they can do is run and jump and dunk. You just don't see those savy basketball plays day in and day out like you used to.

[air gordon]

It's win-win to stay he's staying in college. If he had a potential agent in waiting, the agent would advise him to say that.

- It makes his character look better, improves stock draft, improves marketability
- If he does stay, he fulfills his promise
- If he goes pro, he can say he didn't want to disrupt team morale or distract the team. A team player, increase draft stock.

As dominant as Durant is in college, i think he should go pro and test his abilities on the next level. He's just playing with people out there. I think Oden is the one with more to gain by staying at OSU. He's still very very raw.

there's more risk involved in Durant staying for one year in college. first off, his stock can't get any higher (well ok, maybe one more draft spot hehe). most importantly he could suffer a major injury. if he were to get injured while in the NBA- at least he has that big rookie contract

plus if he stayed he won't be able to fly under the radar like he did this year. Mayo will be @USC but he won't be grabbing all the headlines like Oden did this year. Durant over-exposure would be in effect, which would lead to the 'experts' over analyzing/criticizing his game

but yeh i agree- he should enter the pros. who the hell is he kidding staying hehe

[beau_boy04]

Durant has a tremendous upside, but we need to quit these type of thread until he plays his first season.

My big question is:

Is Durant as ready as Lebron was when he entered the league?
If not, then we should be comparing Durant to someone like Nowitzki instead of MJ.

Thanks.

Oh my goodness I found out Mike Dunleavy who was drafted in 2002 was being compared to Larry Bird what a shock and so ridiculous

Hey guys this is a very interesting article
http://www.nbadraft.net/prevenas077.asp

[---]

Is Durant as ready as Lebron was when he entered the league?

Skill wise: Yes. Physically: No.

If not, then we should be comparing Durant to someone like Nowitzki instead of MJ?

I don't think he will be a ~30ppg scorer as a rookie like MJ, nor a Nowitzki break-out-after-mediocre-rookie-season type rookie. My guess is 18-22 ppg about 7-8 boards and an assist or 2 to go along with a block and a steal.

Comparably I would say his rookie year should go quite similar to that of someone like Dominique stats wise except with a little more rebounding and scoring. Or maybe guys like Elton Brand and Bob McAdoo (stats wise).

[Metsis]

The NBA game is still too much one guy dribbling through defenses and taking those bad shots. This is forced from people like Kobe and the like since there are no guys who can hit open shots. If BronBron had a "Kerr" on his side that was left open when they collapse on him on the offensive end, the "Kerr" would be scoring heaps of baskets and would force the defenses to spread out more. But since they have no one to hit anything they can just double and triple team the stars because no one knows how to shoot... Cavs are trying to do this with Pavlovic, but that guy is no pure shooter... Maybe he could be and is slowly stepping into that role, but there are better. They just aren't the guys that make the highlight reels. Steve Nash wouldn't have any trophies if he didn't have a innate knack of making plays and seeing the court.

But there is a calling for guys like "Kerr" in the NBA. But since they cannot guard the 6'7" point guards, they are regarded as bound to fail and get dunked on a lot, but they do fill their role on the offensive end. And it's the NBA, come on, there are guys that can't hit anything outside of 8', so put them on those guys. But a pure shooter could make the life so much easier for the stars in this league. And as the shooters know their abilities so well they won't take any extraordinary risks during game and would just move the ball around more and not see 4-5 seconds if you can take your guy off the dribble or not...

A real team could beat a team of individuals any day... Look at the international stage... US has fielded a bunch of players that need the ball in their hands to do anything useful and have crashed and burned in the last 5 years or so. An international team needs pure shooters that can take down that zone defense any given day because the guys are out there. I remember looking a team US game in 2004 or something and watching Marbury clank his like fifth shot from the outside in a row and thinkin, hell I could make that shot. At least I wouldn't miss 5 times in a row.

I think the optimal team consists of like 3-4 four guys that are the studs of the team and the rest are role players... Defensive specialists, play makers and shooters. You only need to have like 2 guys who can do it all on the court at the same time. You still only have 1 basket ball in there...

[dwyan wade@1]

why does oden and durant make so loud noise

[BZ]

So much for the thread title, Durant is going to enter this year's NBA Draft

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=ap-texas-durant&prov=ap&type=lgns

[---]

why does oden and durant make so loud noise

LMAO

As for Durant, I guess he couldn't turn down the 20+ million dollar Nike contract and the NBA Life for another shot at a title. Ah well, at least I can look forward to DJ next season. I really don't know where I want him to go, but wherever he is I will closely follow.

[Buckley]

Yeah i think the money, among other things, got to him. Hopefully sixers get a top 2 pick to draft him.

[Effekt]

I really hope the Sixers are able to get the 1st or 2nd pick. Joe Smith is an ok Power Forward, though having Durant there would be so much better.

[Jackal]

You want to start Kevin Durant at PF?

I'll be back in never, I'm going to die of laughter. Good going, you killed someone. Let that rest on your mind forever.

[---]

KD is pretty weak but alot of people have been saying he will se alot of time in the post because of his height/length, especialy as he gets stronger. He definately showed he has post skill at Texas and caused alot of PF's trouble with his mobility. That beig said PF's in the NBA are quicker and stronger but I see no reason for Kevin to not be able to play the PF position. He's not afraid of contact and I think he's perfectly capable of playing down low on the next level, just not as a strictly back-to-the-basket guy.

[Jackal]

Not yet. The game may have gone softer, but really, not yet.

[Slizz]

I just hope he doesn't end up in Memphis...