"Superstar"...the overhyped word?

[Matt]

I feel like the word "superstar" is used way too freely, and that some players who bear the tag aren't really superstars. So, i've scouted the rosters of each team and cam away with this select group of my true superstars.....no doubt this list will piss many people off....here goes.

Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Tim Duncan

What do they have income? they play both ends of the floor actively, they carry their teams when necessary, THEY DON'T FADE IN THE 4TH, and they are WINNERS.

I don't think that can be said of any other player out there. LBJ is lousy on D and chokes in crunch time, KG & Dirk aren't the best of end game types, Iverson isn't even the #1 man on his team now, T-Mac is a loser.

Thoughts?

[Cornerthree]

What about Yao? He's powerful offensive weapon, and he's working very hard on D... I even saw him hit long jumpers at end of games..

[Fitzy]

i agree with that list, maybe another guy could be Artest this season, hes improving as a good all round player

[Jackal]

That doesn't make him a superstar. You'd put Artest over Garnett?

Not saying Garnett is a superstar because indeed, he can't carry them, but to mention Artest when Garnett is already excluded, odd.

[Fitzy]

ive seen him play a few times and he plays both ends well, carries the team and doesnt fade away in the fouth, just a thought

[scrub]

Nice list. I agree with the players you've put in but being critical Steve Nash isn't exactly a top defensive player no matter how how good at the other things he does and the only thing he has won in recent times is his two MVPs, nothing with the Suns as a team.

[Matt]

What about Yao?

Yao is tired by the end of the 3rd

I agree with the players you've put in but being critical Steve Nash isn't exactly a top defensive player

I know, and neither is Dwyane Wade.....however their activity on defence is better than that of superior defensive players. Even though Nash is a porous defender he plays hard on that end and probably to the best of his abilities.

[Nick]

Nash is atleast a smart defender. He knows how to play team defense. He just can't guard the strong and athletic players 1-on-1.

I would most definetly put Garnett on that list.

[Andrew]

Personally, I think "superstar" is a suitable label to assign to the top players in the league because it concisely sums up their talent level and where it ranks amongst all the players in the league, as well as their popularity and name recognition.

[Indy]

Garnett and Dirk both have to be on the list no question, and regardless of LeBron's semi-struggles this year he is too.

Kevin Garnett is one of the most unique players the league has ever seen, and he's still an elite defender, if not one of the top 3 in the league.

I know Dirk struggled in the last few games of the finals, but he's still one of the most unguardable players in the NBA and no matter what happened in those finals he's stepped up huge in late game situations plenty of times. Remember the San Antonio series? He proved he was a superstar then, if it wasn't known already.

[yosifun]

Every player has a weeker side of his game, nobody is perfact...

Kobe Bryant - a lot of other players would have won a ring with Shaq on their team...
Dwyane Wade - see Kobe^ and he doesn't really makes the players around him better, he just scores like crazy (with help from the refs), a lot of player can score: Vince, Redd, Allen, A.I, Melo..........
Steve Nash - doesn't have much D, but a really great player
Jason Kidd - puts triple-double one night and scores 9 pts the other night...
Tim Duncan - chocks at the line in tight games

This can go on and on, the main point is that the superstars of the league are the players who lead their teams (Dirk-Mavs, Nash-Suns, Melo-Nuggets....).

[Cable]

I would think that Superstar describes only the best players ... like Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. Everyone on the 50 Greatest list is a superstar. You can't just take the best players in the league now and say they're superstars. They're stars, but only a select few could be superstars. Therefore the word is overhyped.

If I had to pick, I would say Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Kidd are superstars because they've proven they are the best at any moment. You don't necessarily have to win a championship to be a superstar, but winning more than win and leading your team to the win would make you a superstar.

I'm not going to say Wade, LeBron, Dirk, Nash and the like are superstars just yet because they've only been playing at this level for a couple years. If they keep it up, most likely they could all be superstars, but not yet.

Nothing to do with any of what I said, but:

Jason Kidd - puts triple-double one night and scores 9 pts the other night...

Yes, but he can score 9 pts and contribute in many other ways. Kidd could score 0 pts and be the player of the game; you don't have to score to be a good player.

[nylia]

this is very true. anyone remember that article on (SLAM?) about scottie pippen? i forget if it was SLam... Anyways, I think it was Bird or Mullin (Pacers) that said, Pippen was the only player that didn't have to score to dominate the game. Dominating the game doesn't mean scoring 30,40,50 points, i think it should mean that you can put/command the game in your team's favor (e.g. momentum, tempo, etc) - this can happen by playing defense, play making, intangibles etc

so.. by that definition... i think LBJ is far away from being a true superstar, even though he's one of my favorite players..

if you think superstar, you think of how MJ killed the grizzlies when 'i-forget-his-dumbass-name' taunted MJ when the grizzlies were on a run...

or

how shaq killed the pistons the other night even at a very old age.. (pistons could not get their game on)

just a thought...

Nothing to do with any of what I said, but:

Jason Kidd - puts triple-double one night and scores 9 pts the other night...

Yes, but he can score 9 pts and contribute in many other ways. Kidd could score 0 pts and be the player of the game; you don't have to score to be a good player.

[yosifun]

Kidd is a really great player and I didn't mean to say he isn't one of the best PG ever, but lately he gets really bad shoothing nights every now and than and than the Nets depends on Carter and some players from the bench.. when Carter has those "nothing-goes-in" nights the team is really doomed..

[Drex]

Kidd isn't exactly a scorer you can rely on.

For me, the superstars in the league are the same as Matt, but adding KG, Dirk, AI & Shaq.

[cheater1034]

Are you kidding me? LeBron james is not a superstar? He's only 22 but I think he has proved enough.

LeBron's defense is improving drastically. He played some great D against kobe last 2 times we played the lakers, and tonight against battier, and against toronto. Not the best, but improved so much this year.

below is useless information btw

LeBron - Tries to get his team involved first before going crazy. Has a great all-around game (inside, shooting (mid-range he's great), 3 pt shooting (he hits them when they count, and he's continuously improving), passing (one of the best passers in the NBA?), ball handling, speed (one of top 5 fastest in NBA), size (6'8 and he can do all of that), and last but not least, his defense is certainly improving drastically.

He hit a little bit of a slump this year, he's right back in the swing of things right now (his slump was 20 points a game, 6 rebounds, 8 assists .... a slump for him, but the only bad thing was his percentages and amount of outside shots)

He's been very consistent all his career, oh, and last year he certainly led the team through round 1 & 2 of the playoffs, we lost game 7 because everyone else except him sucked (this year we got some more talent - hughes recently stepping up, varejao, gibson, shannon brown? (recently very great consistently), and not to mention sasha pavlovic

LBJ is on a 9 game streak currently with 29+ points per game, and his FG percentage is up there too, it's not jacking up shots. His assists and rebounds are still there too. He's been very consistent for the last few years, particularly last year he had several of these little streaks of 30+, he's back.

my list:
Kobe Bryant... Best player in the NBA presently?
Steve Nash... Incredible offensively, he does it all, and rarely turns it over.
Tim Duncan... Has definitely proved himself as a consistent big guy, good all-around
LeBron James... Leads his team, but he doesnt shoot everything like kobe (kobe is used to having a bad team around him though) He hasn't been as clutch as the other guys, but he still is sometimes, and the team mates around him still get it more than him in clutch situations (Lebron gets it, but only when it requires a drive to the basket)
Shaquille O'Neil... Maybe not presently, but he definitely was a superstar because of his size. and since he's still in the NBA and he has stepped up since D wade got hurt.
Kevin Garnett... He may not step up at the end, but thats because he's tired after being the only one on the team doing something, give him some talent around him and he'll do better and have some help in crunch time.
Jason Kidd... This one is pretty loose, I dont consider him as big a superstar as the others, but he has made a lot of people money in this league.

My No's
Dirk Nowitzki... It's easy to be good when everyone else on your team is a star. When you have a bad night it is overlooked more. No excuse for not being #1 in clutch situations.
Dwayne Wade... He's close, but he can't win so much without a big guy like shaq in the middle to open up several options for him. They cant double team him or he'll give it to shaq and make em pay.
T-Mac... He's a good player, he's not 3-dimensional, and the only times I really watched him this year against cleveland, he has sucked :-p (including today's performance he started awful until the 4th)
Gilbert Arenas... he can score
Allen Iverson... He can score too!....
Carmelo... Maybe some other time, he scan score though

[Matt]

LeBron James... Leads his team

how does he "lead" his team? With his sub-par effort for most of this season? Because he sure as hell isn't a vocal leader.

Dwayne Wade... He's close, but he can't win so much without a big guy like shaq in the middle to open up several options for him. They cant double team him or he'll give it to shaq and make em pay.

that makes no sense....MJ wouldn't win w/o Pippen either.

[Andrew]

I would think that Superstar describes only the best players ... like Jordan, Magic, Bird, etc. Everyone on the 50 Greatest list is a superstar. You can't just take the best players in the league now and say they're superstars. They're stars, but only a select few could be superstars. Therefore the word is overhyped.

If I had to pick, I would say Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Kidd are superstars because they've proven they are the best at any moment. You don't necessarily have to win a championship to be a superstar, but winning more than win and leading your team to the win would make you a superstar.

Interesting take. I see "superstar" as more flexible term though, in that it can be used to describe players who stand out in history as well as those who stand out in today's league. Players you would nominate as "all-time greats" or "the greatest players in history" could be described as superstars while a player like LeBron - who cannot fairly be described as one of the all-time great players just yet - can still noted as a superstar in today's NBA.

Obviously there needs to be some standard of determining who is a superstar and who isn't, but I don't think contemporary players need to necessarily meet any historical standard to be considered a superstar in today's league. As I said in my previous post, to me it's more of a concise label that sums up a player's talent level and where it ranks amongst all the players in the league, their name recognition/celebrity status and yes, to a certain extent their career accomplishments. It needn't be a label that identifies them as being on the same level as legendary players that came before them. When discussing such players or ranking players historically, terms like "all-time greats" and "greatest players in history" seem more appropriate to me than "superstars".

Of course, that's not to say it doesn't get thrown around a lot or prematurely in some cases but I don't think it's necessarily used in an historical context.

[Abctest123]

Allen Iverson... He can score too!....

By no means am I a fan of Iverson, but are you forgetting how he put his team into the finals, with minimal help other than Mutombo?

LeBron James... Leads his team, but he doesnt shoot everything like kobe (kobe is used to having a bad team around him though) He hasn't been as clutch as the other guys, but he still is sometimes, and the team mates around him still get it more than him in clutch situations (Lebron gets it, but only when it requires a drive to the basket)

Isn't that what a superstar is suppose to be, able to hit the big shots when it counts? Lebron hasn't exactly been clutch in his career, not any point in his career (atleast not yet).

[BigKaboom2]

This is pretty much the Who's Better thread in disguise. Haven't we all had this argument at least 20 times?

[nylia]

lol. i guess everyone has their own meaning of superstar and this is a pointless thread.

i mean, i think pippen was a superstar. he changed games with his versatility and smothering defense... but to some, pippen was just a lucky sidekick of mj.

anyways.. everyone has their own definition of a superstar...

right now tho, the true superstar is kobe.. (even though i don't like the guy).. he just needs to be mentally stronger. .. but he's complete and can take over the game if he wanted to. he has the shot, the midrange everything. plays both defense and offense at the high level. i dont think he has any weakness right now. just his attitude and mindset.

you guys have to agree that if he was nicer and has his screws bolted tight... he'd be close to mj.

[cheater1034]

lol. i guess everyone has their own meaning of superstar and this is a pointless thread.

i mean, i think pippen was a superstar. he changed games with his versatility and smothering defense... but to some, pippen was just a lucky sidekick of mj.

anyways.. everyone has their own definition of a superstar...

right now tho, the true superstar is kobe.. (even though i don't like the guy).. he just needs to be mentally stronger. .. but he's complete and can take over the game if he wanted to. he has the shot, the midrange everything. plays both defense and offense at the high level. i dont think he has any weakness right now. just his attitude and mindset.

you guys have to agree that if he was nicer and has his screws bolted tight... he'd be close to mj.

I dont know how close he'd really be to MJ Kobe does need to improve his attitude and ability to work with others.

[Riot]

The reason why Garnett doesn't show up at the end of games is because he is pushed out of his comfort zone. If you watch the games you'll notice teams will not let Garnett get the ball in the left block (his prefered place) by doubling teaming him and cutting off the passing lanes. This means the only way for Garnett to get his hands on the ball is to get it out on the perimeter or get it late in the shot clock. This leaves Garnett with little to work with and usually throws up a contested jumper because he has nothing else he can do. Sometimes he hits but usually he doesn't. It isn't because he isn't clutch, because he is and he has huge some huge buckets and free throws down the stretch in his career. It's because he can't get the ball where he wants it. He isn't Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade. He isn't a guard who brings the ball up and creates for the team. He is a big man who relies on his teammates to get him the ball in the right situation. It's tough to be clutch when you have to do that.