Shaq's 25000

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Postby --- on Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:42 am

Sauru, I thought you were crazy until I did the math.

Kobe isn't even halfway there yet. He's 21,521 points shy of Kareems record. Kareem played 20 seasons in the league, Kobe has played 10. He would still need almost another 11 2,000 point seasons to match Kareem. At the moment breaking the record seems pretty far fetched.

He would be still having to score 24.4 PPG each season (if he played the seasons in full, which he won't, but he will average higher than 24 for some seasons to make up for it + playoffs) during those 11 years.

Kobe is what, 28 now? So he would still have to be averaging 24+ at 39 years old. Michael averaged 20 PPG at 39. Kobe would need to be better offensively than MJ at the same age by a considerable margin. However, as I said it can balance out.

2,000 (total points over 82 games) x 11 (seasons before matching Kareems amount played) = 22,000, Just remember that number.

Lets say Kobe's career 11 years into the future goes down like this:

AGE* | SEASON | PPG | Total points over 82 games

27 | 06/07 | 29.0 | 2378
28 | 07/08 | 30.0 | 2460
29 | 08/09 | 32.0 | 2624
30 | 09/10 | 30.0 | 2460
31 | 10/11 | 29.0 | 2378
32 | 11/12 | 28.0 | 2296
33 | 12/13 | 28.0 | 2296
34 | 13/14 | 25.0 | 2050
35 | 14/15 | 23.0 | 1886
36 | 15/16 | 21.0 | 1722
37 | 16/17 | 20.0 | 1640
38 | 17/18 | 18.0 | 1476

*At start of season

Add those totals up, and you get 25,666. Thats 4,145 more points than he needs. However, there is no way Kobe will play all 82 games of each season for the next 11 years. So far during his career he has averaged about 70 games played each season, which is 12 short of the amount he must play to reach that total above. However, there are the playoffs. If he misses say, 14 games each season for the next 11 years of his career, he must match those missed games with equal performances in the playoffs.

If he did average the same amount of points per game as my fictional one (which I think is realistic) then we can find the average of the averages themselves, and multiply it by the amount of projected games missed. From there we can find out how well he will need to play in the playoffs.

28.4 is his average PPG over the 11 seasons.

28.4 x 154 (14 (projected games missed per season) x 11 (seasons)) = 4373.6

So, if he does miss as many games as my "prediction", he will need to score 4374 points in the playoffs to match the total I talked about earlier.

Kobe has played in 126 playoff games during his career. He has been there 9 years out of his 10 in the league. However, the Lakers may not make it almost every year. Lets say during the 11 seasons into the future they make it 8 times.

Then, lets say the average 12 games played in those Playoff appearances (With an average 4-2 victory per round the Lakers would be eliminated in game 6 of the second round). Seems fair to me, as there are times when the Lakers will be eliminated early, but they will also go deeper some seasons to make up for it.

So, 12 (playoff games each time they qualify) x 8 (times qualifying for the Playoffs) = 96

If Kobe was to average his regular season average each time the Lakers made the playoffs, he would make up for 2,726 of those 4,374 points he missed out due to injury.

Now for the final stages.


Kareems Total: 38,387

Kobes Total: 16,866 (up to the end of last season)

Kobes 'Projected' Total over the next 11 years: 25,666

Kobes 'Projected' total points lost due to injury: 4,374

Kobes 'Projected' Playoff total over next 11 years: 2,726



25666 - 4374 = 21292 (Kobes 'Projected' Total over the next 11 years - Kobes 'Projected' total points lost due to injury)

21,292 + 2,726 = 24,018 (Kobes 'Projected' Total over the next 11 years, realistically + Kobes 'Projected' playoff total over the next 11 years)


So there we have it.

By my estimated "Kobe Career", he will score another 24,018 points over the next 11 seasons. Thats 2497 more points than he needs to tie Kareems record.

If his career plays out similar to this, he will be the new scoring leader. I think the expected scoring I said earlier is fair, Kobe averaging 25 PPG at 34 definately isn't far fetched, after all, AI averaged 33 at 30 years old last season and the game is getting softer and softer.

Of course this isn't what will exactly happen throughout Kobe's remaining career but it does show he has a real legitimate shot at the title barring career ending injury or early retirement.

Sorry for the huge post and the long explanations, I know there is probably a far simpler way to do it but I suck at math and was doing the calculations as I typed my post. I really hope I didn't make a mistake some where :lol:
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Postby Christopherson on Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:04 am

Awesome post Flight, its good to see someone actually work it out rather than just say, "Kobe iz god, he wll scroe 40,000 pts!" That being said, I'm not so sure Kobe will stay in the league that long. Other than breaking the scoring record, I'm not sure what motiviation he would have. Look at Karl Malone's carreer. His last few seasons were sad. I don't know if some of these kids want to go out like that. Sure guys have played 20 seasons before. But they started at 22 or 23 years of age. I'm not sure some of these younger guys are going to want to play in the NBA for 25 seasons. That being said, I know "Kobe's carreer" puts him ahead of Kareem at age 39. Unless he is winning championships, I'm just not sure he stays in the league that long.
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Postby --- on Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:29 am

I believe Kobe will stay in the league for as long as he can keep his dignity. By that I mean he won't be a veteran who will sign with a elite team and ride the pine to a championship. Kobe's competitiveness is at the level of Michael Jordan's. Kobe just plain wants to win, he wants to dominate.

Michael Jordan tried to leave the game three times, and twice it didn't work. He just loved the game, the competitiveness, too much. The thing is, MJ won multiple championships before both retirements so his hunger for more naturally decreased. When he was away from the game, that hunger and fire increased again and he made a comeback. He tried to leave again after he won 3 more, but couldn't do it. It was only after he couldn't win in his current situation and his physical ability dropping that he realized he should give up while he still has his dignity. I bet that competitive fire is still there and the only thing holding MJ back is his age.

Unless Kobe wins multiple championships like MJ and feels fulfilled (for a year or two anyway, before coming back) then I think its safe to say he will stay as long as that dignity is there. The Lakers aren't exactly turning into a dynasty anytime soon either.
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Postby 3P on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:08 am

The Lakers aren't exactly turning into a dynasty anytime soon either.

What about Bynum? If he progresses as quick as they want him to they will have a dynasty and a ring or two before Kobe turns 35, so your math might not work out.
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Postby --- on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:30 am

Bynum would have to be of equal dominance and ability as Shaq in his prime and the Lakers would have to keep Lamar plus find a better point guard to have a shot at creating a dynasty like they did in the early 00's. Not to mention the West is getting stronger and stronger.
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Postby Jackal on Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:22 am

They don't per se need a better point guard if Bynum can be dominant. Run the triangle through them a la 2000. Get a guard who can shoot the three to stop from doubling Bynum and letting Kobe be able to drive.

They need a good/strong person to anchor the middle, a slasher/driver, three point shooters & some decent defense. Heart also plays a role, a lot of these guys, the heart just doesn't seem to be there. Lamar...I'm not sold on him. I was sold on guys like Fox & Horry, Odom? Mmm...

Bynum is as good as he is because of a lot of heart and a lot of raw talent.
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Postby Bruce on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:06 am

nice post flight_23, very well thought out...
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Postby Andrew on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:26 am

3P wrote:
Until then, it's speculation; not a given.


All the Kobe-hatters here probally want a repeat of Livingstons leg with Kobe.


I hardly think the fact I don't believe Kobe breaking the record is guaranteed makes me a "hater". I'm not disputing Kobe's abilities or knocking him in any way. However, he is a long way from breaking the record so it hardly seems set in stone that he'll do it. Can he do it? Quite possibly. Will he do it? That remains to be seen, making it purely speculation for the moment. And I certainly don't want to see Kobe, nor anyone else suffer the same kind of injury Livingston did.

Of course, if he does break the record Robert Horry will be able to put up his hand as someone who picked it before Kobe even made his first All-Star team.
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