NLSC Elite (and not so elite) Player Rankings

[---]

Il answer your other stuff after I eat, but this one really got to me:

Maybe in the D-league.

He has hardly played plus he got shot.... How can you say that he is going to be scrub in the NBA? He's hardly played. I'm saying he is gonna be goos based on his potential and raw talent. Your basing your opinion on nothing, because there is nothing to base it on. I agree with you with the Starbury and Carmelo being underrated stuff. Same with the savior Battier.

[Gedas]

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (2)
Paul Pierce (1)
Carmelo Anthony (4)
Vince Carter (3)
Joe Johnson (5)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (2)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (3)
Rashard Lewis (4)
Rasheed Wallace (1)

Group 3
Paul Gasol (2)
Chris Bosh (4)
Jermaine O'Neal (3)
Dwight Howard (5)
Shaquille O'Neal (1)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (3)
Jason Terry (2)
Stephon Marbury (4)
Kirk Hinrich (5)
Chauncy Billups (1)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (3)
Peja Stojakovic (4)
Richard Jefferson (2)
Ben Gordon (5)
Manu Ginobili (1)

[The X]

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (2)
Paul Pierce (1)
Carmelo Anthony (3)
Vince Carter (4)
Joe Johnson (5)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (2)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (3)
Rashard Lewis (4)
Rasheed Wallace (1)

Group 3
Pau Gasol (3)
Chris Bosh (1)
Jermaine O'Neal (5)
Dwight Howard (2)
Shaquille O'Neal (4)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (4)
Jason Terry (1)
Stephon Marbury (5)
Kirk Hinrich (2)
Chauncey Billups (3)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (1)
Peja Stojakovic (4)
Richard Jefferson (5)
Ben Gordon (3)
Manu Ginobili (2)

Group 6
Bruce Bowen (4)
Shane Battier (1)
Mike Miller (3)
Stephen Jackson (5)
Ricky Davis (2)

Group 7
Shaun Livingston (2)
Gerald Green (3)
Martell Webster (5)
Danny Granger (4)
Marvin Williams (1)

Group 8
Andrew Bynum (5)
Kwame Brown (3)
David Harrison (1)
Andray Blatche (2)
Kendrick Perkins (4)

Group 9
Jeff Foster (4)
Stromile Swift (3)
Samuel Dalembert (2)
Chris Mihm (5)
Drew Gooden (1)

Group 10
Carlos Arroyo (4)
Flip Murray (5)
Speedy Claxton (3)
Raja Bell (2)
Joey Graham (1)

Group 11
Saer Sene (5)
Johan Petro (3)
Channing Frye (2)
Nenad Krstic (1)
Robert Swift (4)

Group 12
OJ Mayo (6)
Brandan Wright (5)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (3)
Kevin Durant (4)
Chase Budinger (2)

[J@3]

I'll just rank them in order, it's easier. I have no idea what the ranking criteria is so I'm just interpreting each group myself.

Group 1:
Gilbert Arenas
Carmelo Anthony (What more does he have to do after last season?
Paul Pierce
Vince Carter
Joe Johnson

Group 2:
Rashard Lewis
Rasheed Wallace
Lamar Odom
Antawn Jamison
Al Harrington

Group 3:
Pau Gasol (despite his play-off performances, at least he was there unlike Bosh and Howard)
Chris Bosh
Dwight Howard (Pau is the man at Memphis, Dwight can't be counted on for anything except rebounds at the moment. If this was based on potential he'd be #1 clearly)
Jermaine O'Neal (would be 2 if consistantly healthy)
Shaquille O'Neal

Group 4:
Chauncey Billups
Mike Bibby
Kirk Hinrich
Jason Terry
Stephon Marbury

Group 5:
Richard Hamilton
Richard Jefferson
Manu Ginobili
Ben Gordon
Peja Stojakovic

Group 6:
Shane Battier
Bruce Bowen
Mike Miller
Stephen Jackson
Ricky Davis

Group 7:
Shaun Livingston
Marvin Williams
Danny Granger
Gerald Green
Martell Webster

Group 8 (I'm guessing this is on potential?)
Andray Blatche
Andrew Bynum
Kwame Brown
David Harrison
Kendrick Perkins

Group 9:
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Jeff Foster
Chris Mihm
Stromile Swift

Group 10:
Speedy Claxton
Raja Bell
Flip Murray
Carlos Arroyo
Joey Graham

Group 11:
Nenad Krstic
Channing Frye
Robert Swift
Johan Petro
Saer Sene

Group 12:
Don't
Give
A
Shit
About
Hypemongering

[funk99]

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (2)
Paul Pierce (1)
Carmello Anthony (5)
Vince Carter (3)
Joe Johnson (4)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (1)
Al Harrington (4)
Lamar Odom (2)
Rashard Lewis (3)
Rasheed Wallace (5)

Group 3
Pau Gasol (3)
Chris Bosh (2)
Jermaine O'Neal (5)
Dwight Howard (1)
Shaquille O'Neal (4)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (3)
Jason Terry (2)
Stephon Marbury (5)
Kirk Hinrich (4)
Chauncy Billups (1)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (2)
Peja Stojakovic (5)
Richard Jefferson (1)
Ben Gordon (4)
Manu Ginobili (3)

[Indy]

Scanning through the responses, I'm curious to know why the Jermaine O'Neal lovefest? He's only started 88 games in the past two seasons.

Amazing how quickly people forget.

Jermaine is still an elite big man in this league. He's had 2 injuries in the last 2 seasons, but its not like its a chronic injury or anything like that, just had 2 unfortunate things happen in 2 seasons in a row. A lot of injury prone guys get injured because of lack or preperation or lack of toughness. JO has problems with neither of those.

He won't get injured this year, and people will have him in the top 10 lists again. The reason he's been injured the last 2 years is that after his MVP type season in 03-04, he decided to bulk up a lot so he could bang inside. Now he was bulkier and stronger, but not any quicker which is what made him so good in the post before. Now he's back to his playing weight of 3 years ago, so prepare for a huge season from JO that's injury free.

Carlos Arroyo (4)
Flip Murray (3)
Speedy Claxton (2)
Raja Bell (1)
Joey Graham (5)

Saer Sene (4)
Johan Petro (3)
Channing Frye (2)
Nenad Krstic (1)
Robert Swift (8)

OJ Mayo (3) Think Darius Miles with a little better numbers. Noone will want him, but he'll be too good to not be in the league. He'll go from team to team.
Brandan Wright (5)
Greg Oden (1)- Superstar/MVP David Robinson
Thaddeus Young (4)
Kevin Durant (2)

[Christopherson]

How was JO's 03-04 season "MVP type"? he averaged 20.1 ppg 10 rpg 2.1 apg 2.6 bpg and .8 spg. He shot 43% from the floor. FOURTY THREE PERCENT! If those numbers are MVP caliber, then I must have have been misinformed about what an MVP is. Just face it, JO is a top 25 player, but he never has been, and never will be a top 10 player.

[Indy]

How was JO's 03-04 season "MVP type"? he averaged 20.1 ppg 10 rpg 2.1 apg 2.6 bpg and .8 spg. He shot 43% from the floor. FOURTY THREE PERCENT! If those numbers are MVP caliber, then I must have have been misinformed about what an MVP is. Just face it, JO is a top 25 player, but he never has been, and never will be a top 10 player.

Why was it MVP type? I don't know, maybe because he was 3rd in MVP voting behind Duncan and Garnett who both had their best individual seasons of their careers.

In the last two seasons he's shot 46% and he's going to shoot a better percentage this season because of the offense we'll be running. Jermaine has had to deal with constant double teams for a few years now and this has been in a slow grind it out offense. Now he has another low post scorer with him in Al Harrington, so the double teams will be less frequent. He also has REALLY improved passing out of the double team, in fact he's now very good at it.

Just watch Jermaine this year, just watch him.

[Christopherson]

I will

As for him finishing third. I realize that, but I still don't think it was an MVP calibar season. Just because the voters say something, doesn't mean its true.

[Nick]

It would be interesting to add up the points and see how NLSC voted on a whole.

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (2)
Paul Pierce (1)
Carmello Anthony (3)
Vince Carter (4)
Joe Johnson (5)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (4)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (2)
Rashard Lewis (1)
Rasheed Wallace (3)

Group 3
Pau Gasol (5)
Chris Bosh (3)
Jermaine O'Neal (1)
Dwight Howard (4)
Shaquille O'Neal (2)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (2)
Jason Terry (3)
Stephon Marbury (5)
Kirk Hinrich (4)
Chauncy Billups (1)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (2)
Peja Stojakovic (5)
Richard Jefferson (3)
Ben Gordon (4)
Manu Ginobili (1)

Bruce Bowen (5)
Shane Battier (1)
Mike Miller (3)
Stephen Jackson (4)
Ricky Davis (2)

Jeff Foster (5)
Stromile Swift (3)
Samuel Dalembert (1)
Chris Mihm (4)
Drew Gooden (2)

Carlos Arroyo (2)
Flip Murray (3)
Speedy Claxton (1)
Raja Bell (4)
Joey Graham (5)

Careers:

Saer Sene (3)
Johan Petro (4)
Channing Frye (1)
Nenad Krstic (2)
Robert Swift (5)

OJ Mayo (2)
Brandan Wright (5)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (4)
Kevin Durant (3)

Shaun Livington (3)
Gerald Green (4)
Martell Webster (5)
Danny Granger (1)
Marvin Williams (2)

Andrew Bynum (1)
Kwame Brown (4)
David Harrison (2)
Andray Blatche (3)
Kedrick Perkins (5)

[-BHZMAFIA-]

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (1)
Paul Pierce (2)
Carmelo Anthony (4)
Vince Carter (3)
Joe Johnson (5)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (2)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (4)
Rashard Lewis (3)
Rasheed Wallace (1)

Group 3
Pau Gasol (3)
Chris Bosh (5)
Jermaine O'Neal (2)
Dwight Howard (4)
Shaquille O'Neal (1)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (3)
Jason Terry (2)
Stephon Marbury (4)
Kirk Hinrich (5)
Chauncy Billups (1)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (1)
Peja Stojakovic (4)
Richard Jefferson (3)
Ben Gordon (5)
Manu Ginobili (2)

Bruce Bowen (1)
Shane Battier (3)
Mike Miller (2)
Stephen Jackson (4)
Ricky Davis (5)

Shaun Livington (1)
Gerald Green (4)
Martell Webster (5)
Danny Granger (2)
Marvin Williams (3)

Andrew Bynum (3)
Kwame Brown (1)
David Harrison (2)
Andray Blatche (5)
Kedrick Perkins (4)

Jeff Foster (3)
Stromile Swift (4)
Samuel Dalembert (2)
Chris Mihm (5)
Drew Gooden (1)

Saer Sene (4)
Johan Petro (3)
Channing Frye (2)
Nenad Krstic (1)
Robert Swift (5)

OJ Mayo (3)
Brandan Wright (4)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (2)
Kevin Durant (5)

Not much I can say about the other HS players other than Thad and Wright because I've actually got to play them in person and IMO they are the top two HS'ers coming out. Have seen Oden play a little bit along with Durant, and I just think Thad and Wright are more affective. Also, Thad represented well in the All-American game and won MVP in the Jordan Classic.

[---]

OJ Mayo (3) Think Darius Miles with a little better numbers. Noone will want him, but he'll be too good to not be in the league. He'll go from team to team.

The only comparison between Darius and OJ is the hair. OJ Mayo is a point guard who is a terrific outside shooter, and draws in crowds of people when he slashes, giving him the ability to rack up the assists off of kickouts and his amazing court vision. He has very good ballhandling and while not being extremely athletic, he is still above average and very quick. Not a great defender, but his height makes up for that somewhat because he is a point guard.

Darius Miles is athletic, tall, good defender, cant shoot from anywhere outside 15, limited court vision, and has a lack of passing ability. IMO they are very, very different players.

-BHZMAFIA-, pretty cool that you got to play against Thaddeus and Brandan. I can't help but see Thaddeus be more than a Desmond Mason type. I hope he does more than that, because I really like both of those guys. Kevin Durant has the potential to be the best player in the league. Here in NZ the best we get to play against is Cory Webster and Tom Abercrombie

[nets4life]

Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (1)
Paul Pierce (2)
Carmelo Anthony (4)
Vince Carter (3)
Joe Johnson (5)

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (2)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (3)
Rashard Lewis (4)
Rasheed Wallace (1)

Group 3
Pau Gasol (2)
Chris Bosh (1)
Jermaine O'Neal (5)
Dwight Howard (4)
Shaquille O'Neal (3)

Group 4
Mike Bibby (2)
Jason Terry (3)
Stephon Marbury (5)
Kirk Hinrich (4)
Chauncey Billups (1)

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (2)
Peja Stojakovic (4)
Richard Jefferson (1)
Ben Gordon (5)
Manu Ginobili (3)

Group 6
Bruce Bowen (4)
Shane Battier (1)
Mike Miller (3)
Stephen Jackson (5)
Ricky Davis (2)

Group 7
Shaun Livingston (1)
Gerald Green (3)
Martell Webster (5)
Danny Granger (2)
Marvin Williams (4)

Group 8
Andrew Bynum (5)
Kwame Brown (1)
David Harrison (2)
Andray Blatche (4)
Kendrick Perkins (3)

Group 9
Jeff Foster (4)
Stromile Swift (3)
Samuel Dalembert (2)
Chris Mihm (5)
Drew Gooden (1)

Group 10
Carlos Arroyo (4)
Flip Murray (5)
Speedy Claxton (2)
Raja Bell (1)
Joey Graham (3)

Group 11
Saer Sene (5)
Johan Petro (3)
Channing Frye (2)
Nenad Krstic (1)
Robert Swift (4)

Group 12
OJ Mayo (4)
Brandan Wright (5)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (3)
Kevin Durant (2)
Chase Budinger (6)

[Indy]

OJ Mayo (3) Think Darius Miles with a little better numbers. Noone will want him, but he'll be too good to not be in the league. He'll go from team to team.

The only comparison between Darius and OJ is the hair. OJ Mayo is a point guard who is a terrific outside shooter, and draws in crowds of people when he slashes, giving him the ability to rack up the assists off of kickouts and his amazing court vision. He has very good ballhandling and while not being extremely athletic, he is still above average and very quick. Not a great defender, but his height makes up for that somewhat because he is a point guard.

You don't have to tell me about OJ, I've played against him before. He's a dumbass with no basketball IQ and he's not commited.

He won't be a star in the league.

[Dro]

This is ranking in terms of how good a player IS...not potential, not who has had the best career (except for the last few groups):


Group 1
Gilbert Arenas (1)
Paul Pierce (2)
Carmelo Anthony (3)
Vince Carter (5)
Joe Johnson (4)

It was tough to choose between Arenas and Pierce. The other day I was watching the replay of Game 5 of the Cavs-Wiz series round 1 on NBA TV. Wizards were down three and Arenas just sank a cold-blooded three to send the game into overtime.

Group 2
Antawn Jamison (2)
Al Harrington (5)
Lamar Odom (1)
Rashard Lewis (3)
Rasheed Wallace (4)

Again, tough choice between #s 1 and 2. I picked Odom because he's always a triple double threat. Wallace is vastly overrated and inconsistent.

Group 3
Pau Gasol (5)
Chris Bosh (2)
Jermaine O'Neal (3)
Dwight Howard (4)
Shaquille O'Neal (1)

Shaq is still the best in this group. J O'Neal would be first if he hadn't had injury problems these past 2 seasons. Gasol is 5th because he's never been able to lead his team to a playoff win.

Group 4
Mike Bibby (5)
Jason Terry (3)
Stephon Marbury (4)
Kirk Hinrich (2)
Chauncy Billups (1)

Hinrich is a better playmaker than both Terry and Marbury, and that's what the PG position is about. Billups' clutchness demands a #1 ranking.

Group 5
Richard Hamilton (1)
Peja Stojakovic (4)
Richard Jefferson (2)
Ben Gordon (5)
Manu Ginobili (3)

Hamilton is easily the beast in this group...Ginobili pisses me off with his flopping and Jefferson is a pimp.

Bruce Bowen (3)
Shane Battier (1)
Mike Miller (4)
Stephen Jackson (5)
Ricky Davis (2)

Ricky Davis is a good scorer. Battier is the smartest of the bunch...Bowen can't do anything on the offensive end. Miller is a defensive liability and Jackson is a douche.

Shaun Livington (1)
Gerald Green (2)
Martell Webster (4)
Danny Granger (5)
Marvin Williams (3)

Based on potential, Shaun Livingston will be a top 2 PG soon along with CP3. Green has been amazing in preseason so far, and his potential is unlimited. I actually like Webster a lot...I only saw him play 4 times last season, but he has a great stroke and he uses his athleticism effectively.

Andrew Bynum (2)
Kwame Brown (1)
David Harrison (3)
Andray Blatche (5)
Kedrick Perkins (4)

I hate this group...I've barely seen 4 out of the 5 play.

Jeff Foster (4)
Stromile Swift (3)
Samuel Dalembert (2)
Chris Mihm (5)
Drew Gooden (1)


Saer Sene (4)
Johan Petro (3)
Channing Frye (2)
Nenad Krstic (1)
Robert Swift (5)

Krstic is the real deal.

OJ Mayo (3)
Brandan Wright (4)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (5)
Kevin Durant (2)

I love this group, simply because chances are that the Suns will be drafting one of these guys in the next draft. We've got Atlanta's draft pick...imagine, a top 3 team in the league has 3 first rounders this year (Atlanta, Cleveland, and Suns).

[Jugs]

The only comparison between Darius and OJ is the hair. OJ Mayo is a point guard who is a terrific outside shooter, and draws in crowds of people when he slashes, giving him the ability to rack up the assists off of kickouts and his amazing court vision. He has very good ballhandling and while not being extremely athletic, he is still above average and very quick. Not a great defender, but his height makes up for that somewhat because he is a point guard.

What do you base this on? a 5 minute highlight reel?

[---]

Nah Ive seen quite a few games my my friend has on DVD, Ive seen plenty of highlight reels, read alot of stuff about him, etc. Have you seen him play?

You don't have to tell me about OJ, I've played against him before. He's a dumbass with no basketball IQ and he's not commited.

He won't be a star in the league.

You may have played against him, but how do you tell if he is commited? The guy is very commited, especially from what I have read about him. Can't see how you can say hes a dumbass with no basketball IQ.... If he is as good as he is, and has no basketball IQ, then his talent level must be at the ceiling for him to still produce, especially at the PG spot. As for being a star in the league, only time will tell, but I will put my money on it in a heartbeat.

Anyone seen Derrick Rose play? That guy is sick

[iG®]

What's the point of all this?

[Jugs]

Have you seen him play?

A 3 minute mix.

Seemed like any other overhyped high-school player to me.

[The X]

Group 12
OJ Mayo (4)
Brandan Wright (5)
Greg Oden (1)
Thaddeus Young (3)
Kevin Durant (2)
Chase Budinger (6)

noooooo!!!! although I know I overrated him at 2, I don't think he will be worse player out of these 6....

[Zoom]

Can I add another group? SGs in PG bodies...

Steve Francis (2)
Stephon Marbury (4)
Baron Davis (3)
Allen Iverson (1)

^^ I don't know who to pick ahead of who for the last three...

And the 2003 Draft Class

LeBron James (1)
Darko Milicic (7)
Carmelo Anthony (3)
Chris Bosh (4)
Dwyane Wade (2)
Kirk Hinrich (8)
Boris Diaw (5)
Josh Howard (6)

[Amphatoast]

Steve Francis (4)
Stephon Marbury (2)
Baron Davis (3)
Allen Iverson (1)

AI #1 obvious
Marbury>davis and francis cuz davis is injuried often, and marbury is just a better PG than francis..
davis>francis cuz francis is a headache at times, and davis is good when he plays. Francis isn't the same without mobley for some reason.

[Indy]

You may have played against him, but how do you tell if he is commited? The guy is very commited, especially from what I have read about him. Can't see how you can say hes a dumbass with no basketball IQ.... If he is as good as he is, and has no basketball IQ, then his talent level must be at the ceiling for him to still produce, especially at the PG spot. As for being a star in the league, only time will tell, but I will put my money on it in a heartbeat.

I don't know how else to say it. He's a dumbass with no b-ball IQ, he makes stupid decisions off the court which will get him in to trouble and he is a terribly overrated defender.

He also doesn't go to practice very often and is already treated like a star at his school.

Granted, I played against him when I was a senior and he was a sophomore, but I don't think anything has changed since then.

Anyone seen Derrick Rose play? That guy is sick

Derrick is the real deal.

[---]

Yeah, Derrick Rose was amazing... I have never seen him play a full game but what he did in some of his highlights were sick. I know you can't tell a players game from a few highlight reels but that guy is easily one of the most athletic people I have ever seen in my life.

Could you give me any info on him not going to practice? I read an article a while back that said he stays till 11pm on some nights to work out after everyone else has left practice... seems pretty damn commited to me. I don't know where you get the no bball IQ from, Ive seen four full games of his (I know youve probably seen far more but it is very hard to get any basketball over here, yet alone highschool) and the only things other than the odd turnover that showed he had no basketball IQ was he sorta forgot about his teammates on some plays and just went Kobe on everyone. Not that its a bad thing, because he scored probably 80-90% of the plays he did that. As for off court trouble, he had a fight with another sutdent... Who cares? In HS its normal to get into the odd fight, especially when your a star in your school and a few jealous people would want to take you down.

I do agree with what you said about his defence. From what I seen he is an average defender but gets a few steals simply because of his quickness and armspan... nothing special. But again, we will see.....

[nets4life]

And the 2003 Draft Class

LeBron James (1)
Darko Milicic (7)
Carmelo Anthony (3)
Chris Bosh (4)
Dwyane Wade (2)
Kirk Hinrich (8)
Boris Diaw (5)
Josh Howard (6)

no kaman? id have the same order except put Kaman at (6) and shift Howard + Milicic down