Best in the game (NOW)

[Laxation]

saying dum is 1 less letter to type than saying dumb... thats pretty obvious, why point it out?

You could look at it like that, with only older big men going into decline, or like this:
the older big men have been more used to the way the game used to be called than the younger ones, so they have to deal with changing their game as well as their old age

[Matthew]

Elton Brand is 27 years old, yet he averaged nearly 5 points above his career average this season, so once again your theory goes out the window.

[Laxation]

So are you saying that the way the games were officiated had absolutely nothing to do with stat decreases in big men?

[Matthew]

Yes.

[Riot]

The hand check rule came into play last season and because of it guard's are more effective with the ball. If you do not have a good guard you will not make the playoffs. Let me show you why it is a guard's league...

Can you name who is "clutch" in the NBA today? You'll probably list guys like Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, etc. How many big men are on that list? Maybe one (Dirk). The league is making it hard for big men to do what they did in the past and that is to dominate a game from the inside. They are making it impossible to stop the quick guys on the perimeter because you are not allowed to put your forearm on them at all.

Plus, Garnett is not physically in that big of a decline. Phyiscally he can do everything he has been doing for the past three seasons. Hell...he shot a career high 52% from the field last season. That really isn't a decline, Matthew.

[---]

The league is making it hard for big men to do what they did in the past and that is to dominate a game from the inside. They are making it impossible to stop the quick guys on the perimeter because you are not allowed to put your forearm on them at all.

Exactly why Dirk is a top big man, he plays more like a guard than other big men. I would say Duncan is clutch also

[Laxation]

Can you name who is "clutch" in the NBA today? You'll probably list guys like Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, etc. How many big men are on that list? Maybe one (Dirk). The league is making it hard for big men to do what they did in the past and that is to dominate a game from the inside. They are making it impossible to stop the quick guys on the perime

you could sya thats cos most big men cant shoot frett throwz for shit so they dont get the ball in the dying seconds thus they arent clutch

[Weiland]

yeah..garnett isn't one of those...averaging 4 points every 4th quarter...that sux

[Matthew]

The hand check rule came into play last season and because of it guard's are more effective with the ball. If you do not have a good guard you will not make the playoffs. Let me show you why it is a guard's league...

Memphis had good guard play? Denver had good guard play? Teams like Philly didnt make the playoffs altogether?

Can you name who is "clutch" in the NBA today? You'll probably list guys like Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, etc. How many big men are on that list? Maybe one (Dirk). The league is making it hard for big men to do what they did in the past and that is to dominate a game from the inside. They are making it impossible to stop the quick guys on the perimeter because you are not allowed to put your forearm on them at all.

Play defense with your feet? Do you think MJ, Pippen, Michael Cooper etc were all great perimeter defenders becuase they used their forearms? The only times you saw that was when they were in the post. The only contact you would see is chest to chest. That is still allowed.

Plus, Garnett is not physically in that big of a decline. Phyiscally he can do everything he has been doing for the past three seasons. Hell...he shot a career high 52% from the field last season. That really isn't a decline, Matthew.

I wonder who said the following statement: "
Do you disagree with me that this is now a guard's league? Have you noticed that all the league's top big men (Garnett, O'Neal, O'Neal and Duncan) all had off years? It is because the league is turning itself into a guard's league and big men are being left behind."

Hmm...

Exactly why Dirk is a top big man, he plays more like a guard than other big men. I would say Duncan is clutch also

Dirk in 2002, 2003 played like a guard. The reason for his consistant play was him playing "more like a big man".

you could sya thats cos most big men cant shoot frett throwz for shit so they dont get the ball in the dying seconds thus they arent clutch

You never fail to bring up such brilliant points. Word.

yeah..garnett isn't one of those...averaging 4 points every 4th quarter...that sux

lol, who needs scoring in the 4th quarter if you have such apologists as riot as your fans?

[Laxation]

I wonder who said the following statement: "
Do you disagree with me that this is now a guard's league? Have you noticed that all the league's top big men (Garnett, O'Neal, O'Neal and Duncan) all had off years? It is because the league is turning itself into a guard's league and big men are being left behind."

hahaha owned

you could sya thats cos most big men cant shoot frett throwz for shit so they dont get the ball in the dying seconds thus they arent clutch

You never fail to bring up such brilliant points. Word.

stfu... its a good point

[Riot]

Memphis had good guard play? Denver had good guard play? Teams like Philly didnt make the playoffs altogether?

Denver had Carmelo Anthony who is a perimeter playmaker. Memphis is pretty much an exception to the rule. They do have good guards but none of them are really playmakers.

Play defense with your feet? Do you think MJ, Pippen, Michael Cooper etc were all great perimeter defenders becuase they used their forearms? The only times you saw that was when they were in the post. The only contact you would see is chest to chest. That is still allowed.

I'd love to see you try to guard Dwyane Wade without putting an arm on him.

I wonder who said the following statement: "
Do you disagree with me that this is now a guard's league? Have you noticed that all the league's top big men (Garnett, O'Neal, O'Neal and Duncan) all had off years? It is because the league is turning itself into a guard's league and big men are being left behind."

Hmm...

I did say that. However, if you read my statement you would understand that I did not contradict myself. I said physically Garnett has not declined...however his statistics and his play did because the league is now a guard's league.

Garnett scores 4 points in the 4th quarter because he only takes about 4 shots.

[Matthew]

Denver had Carmelo Anthony who is a perimeter playmaker. Memphis is pretty much an exception to the rule. They do have good guards but none of them are really playmakers.

I saw a few games with Denver and most of his play was around the midrange, either facing up or posting up smaller players. Sure he has the ability to play on the perimeter, and somtimes does, but he doesnt do it all that often.

I'd love to see you try to guard Dwyane Wade without putting an arm on him.

Thats the thing though. If I cant guard him, why should I be allowed to foul him?

I did say that. However, if you read my statement you would understand that I did not contradict myself. I said physically Garnett has not declined...however his statistics and his play did because the league is now a guard's league.

No you didnt, you never said "Physically Garnette has not declined".

You've made the claim that it's becuase the league is now guard friendly, so prove it?

[air gordon]

Brand only scores on offensive putbacks? silliest thing i heard in a while

Laxation. try and contibute more then the nothing you have so far to this conversation

Iverson and Bryant were amongst the best before the handcheck rules, Riot. And i have no doubt that Lebron and Wade would do the same since they don't play soft

triple teams or no triple teams, Superstars don't take only 4 shots in the 4th qtr. i guess the handcheck rules took away Garnett's nuts too.

it's not a guard league because of the no handcheck rule, it's because hard fouls no longer exist without punishment. Owners are trying to protect their investments- their franchise players who signed the nba max, and Stern obliged

the hard/physical fouls back in the 80's and early 90's, which were pretty frequent, are now flagrant or ejection worthy fouls.

[Laxation]

Laxation. try and contibute more then the nothing you have so far to this conversation

the only thing im contributing is the notion that its not black and white with the reasons people are declining

apparently thats hard to understand for some people...

[Riot]

No you didnt, you never said "Physically Garnette has not declined".

You've made the claim that it's becuase the league is now guard friendly, so prove it?

You are an idiot and maybe you should actually read my posts before responding to them. You want proof that I said physically? Here ya go.

Plus, Garnett is not physically in that big of a decline. Phyiscally he can do everything he has been doing for the past three seasons.

The post where I said this is merely a few posts up from yours.

[Matthew]

By saying "not that big of a decline" is acknowledging he is indeed in a decline. Now either validate your statement that the league is actually favouring guards or accept that your boy doesnt have the killer instinct to be a legitimate superstar.

[Riot]

By saying "not that big of a decline" is acknowledging he is indeed in a decline. Now either validate your statement that the league is actually favouring guards or accept that your boy doesnt have the killer instinct to be a legitimate superstar.

Garnett never has had a killer instinct. That is not the point I am arguing, either. What I'm saying is that the league is a guard's league now. The fact that if you put a hand on the offensive player you will be called with a foul. It makes it impossible to stop the quicker perimeter players and that limits the effectiveness of the big men.

You can't tell me that the enforcement of the hand check rule hasn't made an impact in the league. You could see the difference last year immensely.

[Matthew]

Defensively it limits what a slower big man can do, but quick big men, like KG for example, it should not effect their game that much.

And you are yet to provide a solid arguement as to how the rule changes have hurt big men.

[Riot]

Defensively it limits what a slower big man can do, but quick big men, like KG for example, it should not effect their game that much.

And you are yet to provide a solid arguement as to how the rule changes have hurt big men.

You want an agrument? How about this:

1. The ball will be in the playmakers hands more often. Penetration is more effective now.

2. There are more fouls because men are going into the paint and the big men are forced to step up and challenge a charging perimeter player.

Also, it just seems like perimeter players get more foul calls. The Timberwolves sent in a tape to the league last year showing all these fouls, legit fouls, that people are doing on Garnett that are not being called. The same can be said for a lot of the big men in the post. The ticky tack fouls that are called on the perimeter are not called in the paint.

[Matthew]

You call that an arguement?

[sdot_thadon]

Also, it just seems like perimeter players get more foul calls.

As does agressiveness down low. The truth is Garnett's not an offensive beast, therefore making it harder to dominate with the ball. Dirk is on the other hand, more moves make it harder to stop said player. So that's why Dirk gets calls and KG doesn't. Pau Gasol got a fair share of calls, so did Brand....Guards right? Case closed.

[Riot]

Guards-
Kobe Bryant: 819 free throw attempts (career high)
Dwyane Wade: 803 free throw attempts (career high)
Lebron James: 814 free throw attempts (career high)
Allen Iverson: 829 free throw attempts (career high)


Big men-
Dirk Nowitzki: 598 free throw attempts (110 less than year before)
Kevin Garnett: 489 free throw attempts (down 80 from last year)
Tim Duncan: 533 free throw attempts (down 100 from his last comparable season)

I guess all of a sudden the guards got more aggressive and the big men got less aggressive? Give me a break.

[Matthew]

Kobe Bryant: 819 free throw attempts (career high)

First full season without shaq, went absolutely nuts offensively.

Dwyane Wade: 803 free throw attempts (career high)

You dont think he went strong to the basket?

Lebron James: 814 free throw attempts (career high)

Posted over 30 ppg, you also don't think he also went hard to the rim?

Allen Iverson: 829 free throw attempts (career high)

Also posted a career high ppg average this season

Dirk Nowitzki: 598 free throw attempts (110 less than year before)

Settling more for his midrange shot now

Kevin Garnett: 489 free throw attempts (down 80 from last year)

Rubbish player, not even worth mentioning .

Tim Duncan: 533 free throw attempts (down 100 from his last comparable season)

As Magius will tell you, he was coasting during the regular season. In the playoffs when he did play aggresively, he went 10 times a night, which is higher then any season he's had.

Still not convinced? Ok.
Brand: 568 fta, career high
Gasol: 617, career high
Carmelo: 709 fta, career high
Dwight Howard: 1011 free throws

I guess all of a sudden the guards got more aggressive and the big men got less aggressive? Give me a break.

Myabe you should stop trying to fool yourself and everyone here with misguided facts.

[Laxation]

Carmelo is one of the people who get superstar attention... not good to use for an example here

And since when does Howard get to the line that much? Was that #1 in NBA?

[Gundy]

Dwight Howard: 1011 free throws

That's for his career you dum-dum .