Hall of Famers

by **Doobie** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:35 am

Well I was sitting down and thinking and I decided to make this thread. In the NBA there are some obvious Hall of Famers and then there are those who can be or could've been. In my opinon here are three guys that got me thinking alot.

Grant Hill - even with the injuries throughout his career does he still have a shot? If he never would've gotten injured, I'm sure he would've been a hall of famer.

Robert Horry- Wow not big numbers, but his presence has been felt from many teams throughout the postseason, I believe the man has a shot.

Penny Hardaway- another player who was excellent back in the day but injuries caught up to him in his career, is he HOF worthy though?

Stephon Marbury- I know many will laugh at this but despite last season , he still averages 20 ppg and 8 apg for his career. If I remember correctly by someone saything this, he is the only player so far other then oscar robertson to accomplish this feat. I don't think he'll be a hall of famer unless he has some playoff sucess though.

Anyone wanna add more players or agree disagree with my players be welcome to..(Can't think of anyone else at the moment)

by **_marsal** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:12 am

You could add Chris Webber and Mitch Ritchmond(and maybe Vlade Divac) to that list.. But the problem is they haven't accomplished much..

by **Silas** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:39 am

Reggie Miller obviously

Dikembe Mutumbo - 4 DPOY awards is quite a feat, and I think Ben Wallace will also make the hall of fame

Steve Francis maybe?

by **Mayerhendrix** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:55 am

Vlade Divac should make the list because he was one of the early talents out of Europe and his skillful gameplay did a lot for the globalization of basketball. Plus, he was all around great.

by **Fenix** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:06 am

Ray Allen, Shawn Marion, Chauncey Billups are the ones worth mentioning. Marbury won't get in. Other than him averaging 20/8 for his career, he's also a complete loser and universally hated.

by **Axel** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:44 am

Neither Horry nor Penny are HOF worthy. A few great years isn't enough imo to be a candidate for the HOF, you need to be consistent over your entire career. Horry just hasn't done enough aside from hitting a few clutch shots to be considered a hall of famer either. I dont see Ray Allen getting in either unless he can can become an accomplished post-season player... and that requires him to actually get there...

I think at the end of his career, Shawn Marion will be a hall of famer... along with Tim Duncan, Garnett, Vince Carter, Kidd, and a handful of guards.

by **Its_asdf** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:42 am

Steve Francis maybe?

He's done nothing outside of giving a few really good seasons and plenty of headaches for coaches.

I dont see Ray Allen getting in either unless he can can become an accomplished post-season player...

Ray Allen is ranked second on three point field goals made, I think that alone should make it at least a bit debatable whether or not he deserves it.

I'm a bit suprised that no one has mentioned Allen Iverson yet. The guy's a hall of famer for sure.

by **Doobie** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:47 am

Its_asdf wrote:
Steve Francis maybe?

He's done nothing outside of giving a few really good seasons and plenty of headaches for coaches.

I dont see Ray Allen getting in either unless he can can become an accomplished post-season player...

Ray Allen is ranked second on three point field goals made, I think that alone should make it at least a bit debatable whether or not he deserves it.

I'm a bit suprised that no one has mentioned Allen Iverson yet. The guy's a hall of famer for sure.

Well thats why, no one mentioned him because he is obviously a HOF along with Shaq and Kobe. I guess no-one really understood me. My fault, I meant to say which borderline hall of famers, guys that aren't obvious are gonna make it.

by **Its_asdf** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:53 am

Oh, I get you doobie, then I guess I should have mentioned Elton Brand and Yao Ming as well.

I guess Chris Webber needs to be mentioned as well, but his health has been an issue throughout most of his career.

by **Rip32** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:36 am

Its_asdf wrote:Oh, I get you doobie, then I guess I should have mentioned Elton Brand and Yao Ming as well.

I guess Chris Webber needs to be mentioned as well, but his health has been an issue throughout most of his career.

Yao Ming? He hasnt proved anything yet, at 7-5 he hasnt averaged a double double, hasnt been a prime time scorer over an entire season. Until Yao puts together some solid 26ppg 13rpg 3bpg seasons, he wont even be considered my his play, maybe the fact that hes the best asian to ever play in the nba but nothing else.

by **Its_asdf** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:52 am

I think that Yao will establish himself as one of the best big man next year... He's well on track to becoming that, and I don't think he has to put up 26-13-3. His 22-10 is good enough, and you also have to consider how much of an impact he has had made in basketball as a whole, because Yao has paved the way for a lot of the success of Chinese basketball (although I'd hardly call it a success, they're still improving though).

If his play regresses, I don't think he should be mentioned, but I think that he's still going to improve.

by **Mayerhendrix** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:02 am

Axel wrote:Neither Horry nor Penny are HOF worthy. A few great years isn't enough imo to be a candidate for the HOF, you need to be consistent over your entire career. Horry just hasn't done enough aside from hitting a few clutch shots to be considered a hall of famer either. I dont see Ray Allen getting in either unless he can can become an accomplished post-season player... and that requires him to actually get there...

I think at the end of his career, Shawn Marion will be a hall of famer... along with Tim Duncan, Garnett, Vince Carter, Kidd, and a handful of guards.

Steve Nash if he can put up decent stats for a while more and get a ring?

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:07 am

I think the window for Grant Hill making the Hall was still there after his 2004/2005 season but after the hernia derailed his season last year I'm not so sure. He's had some fine seasons, his talent has been apparent since day one and if healthy he should be able to put up good numbers for at least a couple more years.

The same goes for Anferenee Hardaway. Like Hill he seemed destined to be a HOFer and has had some memorable seasons but through all the injuries he's lost so much of his career, not to mention the opportunity to accomplish great things. Yes, they both have had impressive statistical years, made All-NBA teams and been All-Stars but there's players in the Hall whose resumes are simply more impressive.

I'd say that the opportunity is still here for Hardaway and Hill but only if they're able to have a few more productive seasons, preferably as a key member of a championship team. I think they'd have to at least be nominated. For that matter, most of the players that have been mentioned stand a good chance of receiving a nomination.

Robert Horry's an interesting case. On one hand he would seem to have an outside shot because he's been a key role player for three clubs that have yielded a total of six championships but at the same timehe doesn't have the individual accomplishments to be put up there with the all-time greats. As much as greatness is about team success the Hall of Fame honours standout players and to stand apart from your peers you need individual accolades: MVPs, All-Star appearances, All-NBA teams, impressive statistics and so on.

My guess is that he'll be like Tom "Satch" Sanders who won eight titles playing with Bill Russell in the 60s. He'll be a noteworthy player in history for having been a member of so many championship teams but having not been a standout player like Russell (or in Horry's case, Tim Duncan) he won't make the cut for the Hall.

by **Amphatoast** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:33 am

paul pierce is a name that comes to mind when talking good players, but might not be hall of fame bound.

Alonzo Mourning? I think he has a good chance of getting there.. actually he will, he is like a Patrick Ewing with a ring now (Y)

Dirk looks like a safe bet to be a HOF, especically since he is an international player.

Other than scoring titles, T-Mac hasn't done much so far.. plus injuries have slowed him down. Same could be said about Jermaine O'Neal.. but they both have a chance if they can step it up and get a ring or some playoff success.

Bibby and B. Davis are notable names also that might not get there.

by **nets4life** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:39 pm

nba vets who deserve HOF : Shaq, Kobe, Garnett, Kidd, Duncan, Nash, AI

by **Silas** on Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:17 pm

I think Ray will get it, and if he doesnt he deserves it. He's had some good post season runs. He made it to the conference finals when the Bucks had the Sam Cassell/Ray Allen/Glenn Robinson trio, and he had a fanastic run in 2005. Nobody gave the spurs more trouble except for Pistons, and despite having only .5 seconds to get his 3pt shot off, he was literally a quarter inch from taking the spurs to 7 games.

Past that, he's also, at least in IMO, one of the top 5 shooters in the history of the NBA, and one of the most consistent players to play the game. I can't remember the last time he had a bad night for no reason. Also, when he's on fire, he's as unstoppable as any of the very top tier players in the game, aside from Kobe and Shaq who are really in their own league. In the 2005 playoff series versus the Kings they threw everything they had at him and he still lit them up for 40 points, and even with Bruce Bowen playing him dirty he still scored 30.

He's a great player who has made some great accomplishments, and if he keeps it up he has the possibilty to pass Reggie Miller on the 3pt list. Like Reggie, he's got his awesome shooting touch to fall back onto into his old age. If he can keep playing for a contender, I dont see him retiring anytime soon.

by **debiler** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:13 am

My mentions:

Kevin Garnett
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Allen Iverson
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Webber
Vlade Divac
Karl Malone
Ben Wallace
Shawn Marion
Vince Carter

and of course, LeBron and Wade are instant HOF material, but we'll have to wait and see, because Penny was once, too.

by **maes** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:11 am

FYI Basketball-Reference.com's analysis.

It only looks at per game stats (not career), All-Star games, and # of rings. So there's a *lot* that isn't taken into account. And guys that continue playing in a reserve slot after their prime are going to score lower than normal (like Horry), and guys in their prime now will probably score lower at the end of their career.

Does not take into account other individual awards like DPOY, only All-Star and Rings.

Anyway....

Hall of Fame probability
Grant Hill: 85.3%
Penny Hardaway: 3.7%
Rober Horry: 1.5%
Steph Marbury: 39.4%
Chris Webber: 81.4%
Mitch Richmond: 65.7%
Reggie Miller: 4.1% (ouch...gotta do more than shoot jumpers)
Dikembe Mutombo: 2.0%
Vlade Divac: 0.1%
Ray Allen: 53.5%
Shawn Marion: 18.4%
Billups: 1.5%
Iverson: 99.5% (!!)
Nash: 4.7%
Shaq: 99.9%
Kobe: 99.6%
Duncan: 99.7%
Mourning: 53.2%
Dirk: 43.4%
Baron Davis: 6.6%
Kidd: 79.8%
Payton: 91.5%
Yao Ming: not enough games for analysis

by **Gundy** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:39 am

Some of you guys haven't read the thread. This thread is about players that might get in not players that definitely will get in (ie: Shaq, Kobe, Iverson etc)

I think Shawn Kemp has a chance to make it. The guy was amazing for almost 10 straight years. Also, I agree with Doobie, Stephon Marbury should get in, the HOF is mostly about stats not if people like you or not.

by **Amphatoast** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:44 am

Patrick Ewing 92.5%
Tracy McGrady 71.9%
Spud Webb: 0.2%
Stockton: 87.7%

wow Ewing>stockton

by **adv1s5** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:22 pm

mitch richmond. great player, great number, great playing.

by **cklitsie** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:28 pm

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/colu ... 38c86.html

Do you guys agree with him? I don't to be honest.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:02 pm

It's an interesting suggestion and not without its merits given some of the other inductees but it does seem a stretch to be honest.

by **Craig** on Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:57 am

I think Horry deserved to be a HOFer definitely. He is much more important for those championship teams than it looks. He contributed in both end, and the most important is he always came out big in playoffs.

Of course his skills or talent are not as good as those all-stars, but what he has devoted to his game and the impact he made are far beyond those stars.

I think HOF is not an all-star game selection, we shouldn’t judge a player by his numbers or his playing style. Horry is a model of ROLE PLAYER, and he is definitely one of the greatest role players of all time. So I think he deserves it.

by **Indy** on Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:08 pm

maes wrote:Hall of Fame probability
Grant Hill: 85.3%
Penny Hardaway: 3.7%
Rober Horry: 1.5%
Steph Marbury: 39.4%
Chris Webber: 81.4%
Mitch Richmond: 65.7%
Reggie Miller: 4.1% (ouch...gotta do more than shoot jumpers)
Dikembe Mutombo: 2.0%
Vlade Divac: 0.1%
Ray Allen: 53.5%
Shawn Marion: 18.4%
Billups: 1.5%
Iverson: 99.5% (!!)
Nash: 4.7%
Shaq: 99.9%
Kobe: 99.6%
Duncan: 99.7%
Mourning: 53.2%
Dirk: 43.4%
Baron Davis: 6.6%
Kidd: 79.8%
Payton: 91.5%
Yao Ming: not enough games for analysis

That's terrible. Discounts all the credibility for this so called math.

Reggie is a first ballot hall of famer without any question whatsoever.

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