Gary payton goingt to LA

[air gordon]

scub you're right:

You guys are trying to compare this team if the Lakers get those 2 with Portland and that Portland team was not even near the team the Lakers are trying to put together. Portland had a lot of Stars, I agree, but none of them were at the level of these 4 guys.

outside of pippen, you are correct. but guess what - even though malone and payton are mentioned as one of the greatest, they are nowhere near this aforementioned level, they are passed their primes. (when the bulls signed robert chief parish, i didn't hear people saying- "look at the bulls lineup, they will be unstoppable- they already have Pip and jordan- 2 of the best at their positions, kukoc- the best european, and now they added robert parish- ONE OF THE GAME'S GREATEST CENTERS!"). btw- i'd rather much have (the Portland players circa late 90's) Pippen, Smith, Wallace, Wells, Schrempf, Sabonis, Dale Davis, and even Stoudamire then the Malone and Payton of the present. LA is getting a PF who rarely goes in the post and a fading PG who likes to control the ball. And both have been #1 scoring options on offense for most of their careers. this is Phil jackson's biggest coaching challenge to make this work.

as for the triangle- i'm in the majority that it doesn't need a pure pg and that payton's assists #'s won't go up. and also i think payton's return to the western conference will be like jordan coming back from his first retirement. the west is full of quicker/more talented PG's (franchise, starbury, parker, nash, bibby, arenas) and they are all prolly wetting their pants knowing they get a few games to light up the fading, trash talking Payton.

[Andrew]

Count me as another member of the "triangle doesn't need a star point guard" camp. As limp said, it doesn't even need a pure point guard. Payton's passing ability won't hurt the triangle, but his assists will not increase. The triangle is designed to place all five players in a position to score. More so than other plays, it isn't necessarily the point guard who feeds the player who will finish the play.

[Swoosh]

Then meejbie finally phil should consider not using the triangle ?

[scubilete]

THE TRIANGLE HAS NO POINT GUARD. GARY PAYTON IS A POINT GUARD. THE TRIANGLE OFFENSE TAKES THE BALL OUT OF THE POINT GUARDS HANDS.

No, I'm not missing any point, you are trying to close your mind with the triangle statement, I edited my post 4 times cause I found I was repeating too much & explaining too much to you how the offense in the Lakers work. I don't consider I would have to repeat all that stuff since I find it is boring to explain Basketball to people who should be able to understand the game. But let's go to your next statement:

Payton will not be the primary ball handler

Ok, Phil, you are the coach.

Kobe Bryant will, simply because that's worked, save for last year

Don't you think Phil realized he needs a PG? Ask the Lakers fans if they want a good PG to see what they will answer. Ask what do they think is needed to get another championship to see what is the answer. Ask them what is the difference when the Lakers face the Queens & Spurs to see what they answer. I'll answer you now as a Lakers fan, yes I want a good PG, a good PG is needed to get another championship and the difference when the Lakers face the Queens & Spurs is simply at the PG.

No matter what your T-Offense says, that's the difference. Parker & Bibby/Bobby kill us everytime we face them. I told you, you are not talking like a Lakers fan cause you are not, you are just trying to make people believe getting Payton will be a mistake when even my dog knows that's the best thing they can do. You are just scared of watching the Lakers getting another championship, that's a fact.

why change it because you have four superstars?

Nobody is going to change anything, you are again with that T-thing when I spent over 20 minutes explaining to you the Lakers don't run the Bulls T-offense.

Payton's too much for this team. He's too competitive, he likes to shoot, and he likes to have the ball in his hand.

So what's the deal of getting good players to make teams better if they are too much for any team. Are you trying to say that teams should keep the same quemistry & players cause other players coming from the free agency like to shoot and it is going to take shots away from the main guys? That statement is just stupid.

Why does the Spurs want to get kidd if kidd is too competitive, if kidd likes to have the ball in his hand, that's pointless. Any point guard likes to have the ball in his hand, and you are just trying to make others believe Payton doesn't share the ball or scoring. Let me remind you something, before Portland there was Seattle, a team full of stars as well, sharing scoring, assists, rebounds all over, but like I said before, none of them were at the level of Shaq, Kobe, Malone.

Why? Because that's the way the goddamned offense works. Period.

Now, let's see if there's an open minded in this statement, nope, you are just talking about that offense again, let's roll some eyes

as for the triangle- i'm in the majority that it doesn't need a pure pg and that payton's assists #'s won't go up.

I'm not saying in any statement that Payton's assist would increase but when you say (not you Limp) those numbers will drop dramatically (for a player who had just over 8 assists per game) you are trying to say the numbers will be like 4 or 3 assists per game. Why? cause even if he gets over 5 assists per game, that's not called dramatically.

(when the bulls signed robert chief parish, i didn't hear people saying- "look at the bulls lineup, they will be unstoppable- they already have Pip and jordan- 2 of the best at their positions, kukoc- the best european, and now they added robert parish- ONE OF THE GAME'S GREATEST CENTERS!")

I don't even remember if Pippen was a Bull when Parish joined that group but let me remind you something and this is why nobody said what you were expecting True, Parish was one of the greatest centers but Parish numbers/age were not the same as malone's, was understood Parish was not going to grab over 5 rebs per game or score over 10 points like you know very well Malone will, that's why you didn't hear anyone saying that. Also, the fact of having kukoc, Scottie & Jordan was not the real thing of getting those championships but having Rodman, that's being saying by a non-bulls fan. Forget how many minutes Dennis was in the lineup, he was the fact for those championships.

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

At first, I didn't like the idea of Payton, Malone, Kobe & Shaq being on the same side. But when thinking about it, this might just work out after all?

I know alot of people are saying G.P. doesn't deserve to take no back seat and be a 3rd or 4th scoring option, niether Karl Malone. But Phil Jackson is a phenonimal coach, and he will find a way to make it work. The LA Lakers might be the top scoring team in the league next season, with Kobe and Shaq putting up 25 + Points, and GP will put up 15 or more, and the Mailman 12 / 13 Points or more?

Not to mention, they will be the best Defensive team, handsdown! With Kobe, Payton, Shaq, Fox & Robert Horry etc.

I really like the sqaud LA might have next season, if all goes well with Kobe and if Karl Malone signs? They could even have the best bench behind Sacramento, with Horry, Fisher, George, Luke Walton and Brian Cook. Those were two excellent draft picks by the Lakers. Alot of teams made a bad decision overlooking Brian Cook, he is a very good player.

[Robby]

I can't speak for Payton, but Malone, whom I've watched play hundreds of times, will not let a lack of shots deter his defense.

Um...he was the primary option...not the third option, the number 1 option...it's a bit different when you don't know if you're going to get your points, especially when you're going for the all time scoring title....

This past season, Malone averaged only about two more points per game than Harpring but his defense was better than ever. If Malone truly wanted the scoring title more than anything, he would stay in Utah and be paid more money. If he goes to LA, he knows he's not expected to put up points but rather defend and rebound well so the team can win more. He's proud of his defense and one example of this is when he won the MVP award in 97 and said he was more proud of being on the first defensive team than the MVP award. Every time the Jazz won, he credited defense more than anything and I can't recall a single comment from Malone about a lack of touches(even he was getting 12-14 shots per game for very long stretches). I've kept up with the Jazz for over six years (this includes NBA League Pass games and reading the three major state papers daily) and I can say for sure that Malone's defense will not go down because of his lack of touches on the offensive end. There are still a few players left in the league who care more about winning than personal accomplishments or money, and Malone is certainly at or near the top of that list.

[GloveGuy]

but guess what - even though malone and payton are mentioned as one of the greatest, they are nowhere near this aforementioned level, they are passed their primes.

Yes they are passed their primes but look at their stats. They still have all-star stats. It doesn't matter if you're passed your prime. Michael Jordan was passed his prime when he won his sixth championship, but he was still great then, much like Malone and Payton are still great now.

i'd rather much have (the Portland players circa late 90's) Pippen, Smith, Wallace, Wells, Schrempf, Sabonis, Dale Davis, and even Stoudamire then the Malone and Payton of the present.

Why would you compare these eight to just Malone and Payton. It's these eight to Malone, Payton, Kobe, and Shaq. This makes a difference. And when you look at this Portland team, you see that the only guys who have Finals experience are Pippen and Schrempf, two guys who aren't/weren't all-star anymore. I don't believe they're better than the four on the Lakers.

and also i think payton's return to the western conference will be like jordan coming back from his first retirement. the west is full of quicker/more talented PG's (franchise, starbury, parker, nash, bibby, arenas) and they are all prolly wetting their pants knowing they get a few games to light up the fading, trash talking Payton.

You think these guys are better than Payton? Payton was in the Western Conference for more than last year. During then he led the league in assists and his points were higher. It wasn't till when he went to the Bucks, where his stats decreased. The way I see it is, the NBA has Payton and Kidd as their two best point guards, while the other guys are just at a lower level. These guys might be quicker now, but more talented? Get real, man. Payton owns them all on defense and passing. And he averages more points then most of them. How do you expect them to light Payton, one of the best ballhawks in the league, up?

[scubilete]

btw- i'd rather much have (the Portland players circa late 90's) Pippen, Smith, Wallace, Wells, Schrempf, Sabonis, Dale Davis, and even Stoudamire then the Malone and Payton of the present.

Just a loser (and I'm not calling you one) would rather having those guys again for real in a team knowing those didn't get anywhere. Shaq & Kobe kicked their asses as many times as they pleased, now adding Malone & Payton, those Blazers wouldn't even show up to compete.

[Full Surface]

Fear the Lakers, as they have a rapist on their team. I'd be very afraid if I was Payton, potentially having to get into the same shower as Kobe.

[Swoosh]

[Wall St. Peon]

*Note: Capital letters used for emphasis, not yellling...too lazy to bold over something so "stoopid"....

No, I'm not missing any point, you are trying to close your mind with the triangle statement, I edited my post 4 times cause I found I was repeating too much & explaining too much to you how the offense in the Lakers work. I don't consider I would have to repeat all that stuff since I find it is boring to explain Basketball to people who should be able to understand the game. But let's go to your next statement:

Yes, you ARE missing the point. The "triangle statement?" It's a goddamned offense, are you kidding me? It's not closed minded, the triangle offense doesn't change concepts...it changes star players, but that's all, and, like I've been saying for god knows how long - and this post WILL be the last time I say it (and I'm not even the only one who's said it!) there IS NO POINT GUARD POSITION IN THE TRIANGLE. The Lakers run the TRIANGLE. Sheesh....

Ok, Phil, you are the coach.

Think about the triangle, now think about who the primary ball handler would be...for the Lakers, like in Chicago, it's the second option (which is what they've done the last four years)...which would be...oh yeah, Kobe...but since you obviously have NO IDEA what the triangle offense is, yet you're a Laker fan, you think they'll run a traditional type of offense....right...

Don't you think Phil realized he needs a PG? Ask the Lakers fans if they want a good PG to see what they will answer. Ask what do they think is needed to get another championship to see what is the answer. Ask them what is the difference when the Lakers face the Queens & Spurs to see what they answer. I'll answer you now as a Lakers fan, yes I want a good PG, a good PG is needed to get another championship and the difference when the Lakers face the Queens & Spurs is simply at the PG.

On defense....they get burned on defense by opposing teams point guards....it doesn't matter who the point is on offense because the point guard doesn't run the offense...Kobe does...

No matter what your T-Offense says, that's the difference. Parker & Bibby/Bobby kill us everytime we face them. I told you, you are not talking like a Lakers fan cause you are not, you are just trying to make people believe getting Payton will be a mistake when even my dog knows that's the best thing they can do. You are just scared of watching the Lakers getting another championship, that's a fact.

It's not a fact...you aren't me, and you don't know what I think. However, the fact is that the Triangle offense DOES NOT CHANGE. That being said, THERE IS NO POINT GUARD IN THE TRIANGLE. Sheesh...you don't know shit, man, seriously...look up the triangle, look how it's run, and you'll see it's complex and involves ball movement which means that no one player has the ball in his hands most of the time, and when they do, they're one of the two primary scorers - which will not be Gary Payton...

Nobody is going to change anything, you are again with that T-thing when I spent over 20 minutes explaining to you the Lakers don't run the Bulls T-offense.

For fuck's sake. I never once said they ran the Bulls triangle. However, they run the TRIANGLE OFFENSE...which is the same thing with different stars - same shit, different smell. I just used the Bulls to explain the triangle because they're the only other team to use the Triangle....you have no idea what offense the Lakers run, you just know it's the triangle and it's not the exact same offense as the Bulls...and before you say it, yes, I know they don't always run the triangle...but they definately won't shift away from an offense that is as potent as the Triangle has been for Phil

So what's the deal of getting good players to make teams better if they are too much for any team. Are you trying to say that teams should keep the same quemistry & players cause other players coming from the free agency like to shoot and it is going to take shots away from the main guys? That statement is just stupid.

Not really...rarely do similar players coexist on a team....and Kobe and Payton are similar players who both need their hands on the ball...and since Kobe is more than well-established in Laker land, he'll handle the ball more...it's logic. It may not be true, but it's more likely to happen than not...it's my opinion, not fact, but it's still logical and therefore makes sense and is not 'stoopid.' And quote me where I said the Lakers should keep the same players...except I said they should sign Juwan Howard and a young point guard as opposed to two stars who could destroy team chemistry b/c their stardom is similar to that of Shaq and Kobe's and they'd have to take a back seat to that...

Why does the Spurs want to get kidd if kidd is too competitive, if kidd likes to have the ball in his hand, that's pointless. Any point guard likes to have the ball in his hand, and you are just trying to make others believe Payton doesn't share the ball or scoring. Let me remind you something, before Portland there was Seattle, a team full of stars as well, sharing scoring, assists, rebounds all over, but like I said before, none of them were at the level of Shaq, Kobe, Malone.

Oh, you gotta be kidding me...the Spurs have Tim Duncan and no one else...the Lakers have guys that can put up 70 ppg between the two of them. Big difference...also, they run a traditional offense where the point guard handles the ball most of the time, as opposed to the triangle...this isn't NBA Live, this is the real NBA where teams run more than one offense...

I'm not trying to make others believe anything. I never said Payton doesn't share the ball or doesn't let other's score, I just said that I don't think he'll work as a fourth option on what the media's calling the 'Dream Team.' The key words are 'I don't think.' An opinion. And then I back up my opinion with more than legitimate - and logical - claims as to why he won't fit into the Lakers system. The offense, his style of play, his ego, his teammates' egos, and so on. Yet you focus on the offense which you don't even understand! What kind of fan are you?

Now, let's see if there's an open minded in this statement, nope, you are just talking about that offense again, let's roll some eyes

*sigh* IT'S AN OFFENSE!! IT DOESN'T CHANGE!!! IT CHANGES PLAYERS AND NOTHING ELSE! For fuck's sake, get it through your head that I'm not making up what the triangle OFFENSE is, it's there, the Lakers run it and have for the last four years, and the Bulls ran it for how long? Why would Phil Jackson change offenses now after he's won 9 rings? He's not! I can garuntee it...you can't be open minded about an offense that is well established because it's well-established and simply is what it is. The triangle is the triangle. Period.

I'm not saying in any statement that Payton's assist would increase but when you say (not you Limp) those numbers will drop dramatically (for a player who had just over 8 assists per game) you are trying to say the numbers will be like 4 or 3 assists per game. Why? cause even if he gets over 5 assists per game, that's not called dramatically.

Halfing one's stats is dropping dramatically in my opinion...but what do I know besides what an offense is....

This past season...top of that list.

That's true, but Malone said he wanted a ring first, then the scoring title, so both are in his eyes. The only problem I have with Malone signing with the Lakers is that the Lakers need to get younger, not older, and Juwan Howard could have filled in for several years at the power forward position putting up similar numbers to Malone's. Malone'll be fine in LA...it's Payton who I don't think will work out (and Gloveguy, I love Payton, I'd take him over Kidd any day, I just don't think he fits in the Lakers' system).

[GloveGuy]

Obviously, we're just going to see what Phil Jackson says and what we see this season by the Lakers. I think/hope that Kobe will share or give some of his the ballhandling to Payton. Also, when Kobe is out of the game, it will be Payton's turn to be the primary ballhandler.

One thing that's so good about Malone and Payton are that they can both play 40 minutes and 82 games. Payton's only missed five games in his career(if you don't include the one's he missed to the Milwaukee-Seattle trade), while Malone's only missed 10. These two guys are really durable, even at the later parts of their careers. When Kobe and/or Shaq are resting, Phil shouldn't get worried, since he can still go to Payton and Malone, the advantage of having two guys who could be the number one/two option on any other teams. Though Robert Horry and Derek Fisher are okay role players, I(if I were Jackson) would feel much more comfortable knowing that I can rest Kobe and Shaq for the playoffs better now that I have GP and the Mailman. The Bulls of the 90s and this years Lakers never had that great of supporting cast for Jordan and Pippen/Shaq and Kobe.

Obviously this isn't the Dream Team where everyone's going to share the ball, but hopefully, Kobe and Shaq won't let their egos get the best of them, and pass off more to Payton and Malone then they did to Fisher and Horry/Walker/Madsen.

[scubilete]

too lazy to bold over something so "stoopid"...

I just bold whenver I believe there's something you are missing, as I know you don't read the whole post (cause if you do, you would get other' points), I just get back and bold it,

and this post WILL be the last time I say it (and I'm not even the only one who's said it!) there IS NO POINT GUARD POSITION IN THE TRIANGLE.

You have been saying the same thing the whole week & don't even get how the freaking Lakers Offense is run, I'm just losing my time trying to open your eyes and you just keep saying the same crap, . I thought you at least could understand something as simple as the fact that the ball goes to Shaq when the Lakers need to score, even a child would understand that, I've been explaining the same thing to you and you are just with your T-Offense, I'll leave you with your poor basketball knowledge cause obviously, that's all you know & can prove, that there's no PG in the triangle, big deal.

Yes, you ARE missing the point. The "triangle statement?" It's a goddamned offense, are you kidding me? It's not closed minded, the triangle offense doesn't change concepts...

The closed minded is you Shane, the triangle works good but you just don't understand the Lakers don't run that as you believe,

Think about the triangle, now think about who the primary ball handler would be...

See, you are a Triangle fan, I'm not a triangle fan, I'm a Lakers fan, when the Lakers need to win Fisher takes the ball and pass it to Shaq, how can't you understand that?

which would be...oh yeah, Kobe...but since you obviously have NO IDEA what the triangle offense is, yet you're a Laker fan, you think they'll run a traditional type of offense....right...

Oh, so now you are saying Pippen was the one taking the ball to the other side in Chicago?, now you would say it wasn't Jordan or Paxson, . If Pippen/Kobe got those numbers in assists, is not cause they were the ones handling more the ball, but cause their vision and ability to pass the ball was much better than the point guard of the team, that's obvious but you can't even imagine it.

And yes, I'm a Laker fan and I know the type of offense the Lakers run when they need someone to score desperate, that's something I've been explaining to you but you are just Triangle and Triangle you will always be.

it doesn't matter who the point is on offense because the point guard doesn't run the offense...Kobe does...

Oh, sorry, so it is Kobe who takes the ball to the other side, so Fisher doesn't... You see, you don't even know what you are arguing about, you are not a Lakers Fan, you don't watch the Lakers game as a Laker, you are just on the other side and you believe whatever you see in the sports review, Kobe takes the ball and shoots it, everyone knows that, even the guys who loves him know it, Kobe doesn't pass the ball to Shaq, first dead.

It's not a fact...you aren't me, and you don't know what I think.

For sure I don't know what you think, but I know you are against the Lakers and that's something you must admit.

THERE IS NO POINT GUARD IN THE TRIANGLE. Sheesh...you don't know shit, man, seriously...look up the triangle, look how it's run

FORGET THAT, YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE YOUR STATEMENT WHEN IT'S ALREADY KNOWN BUT YOU DON'T GET OTHERS, AND YOU THINK YOU KNOW A LOT WHEN YOU JUST THINK ABOUT THE TRIANGLE, The more you type, the more stubborn you get,

you'll see it's complex and involves ball movement which means that no one player has the ball in his hands most of the time, and when they do, they're one of the two primary scorers - which will not be Gary Payton...

See, I asked you what paper was Shaq doing there and you didn't answer, now you are saying one of the 2 primary scorers hand the ball most of the time, you haven't seen Shaq doing that, Kobe shoots the ball most of the time he gets it so he's not the one doing it, who is then?, you don't know what you are saying, Kobe gets his assists when he sees he can't dunk the ball over the opponent, then he passes the ball to whoever is near him.

Also, I ALREADY TOLD YOU, THIS IS NOT THE BULLS OFFENSE, THIS TEAM DEPENDS ON A CENTER NOT A SHOOTING GUARD, IN CHICAGO JORDAN/PIPPEN WOULD TAKE THE BALL TO THE BASKET, HERE THE TEAM NEEDS SOMEONE TO GET THE BALL TO SHAQ, SHAQ IS NOT FLOATING IN THE PERIMETER TO GET PASSES and Kobe is not the one passing the ball to Shaq, Fisher is, (again, that's an assist) do you understand that? just answer if you do cause I'm starting to think you are unable to.

For fuck's sake. I never once said they ran the Bulls triangle. However, they run the TRIANGLE OFFENSE...which is the same thing with different stars - same shit, different smell.

Same shit, different smell?, nope. In Chicago the guys who shot most knew how to dribble and were always around the perimeter, here a guy is designed to pass the ball to the center, Jordan/Pippen didn't have to pass the ball to Cartwright to get some scoring, don't you get that?, there's a guy here designed to pass the ball to Shaq and that guy is not Kobe cause Kobe never does,

and Kobe and Payton are similar players who both need their hands on the ball...

Shane, Kobe is not the guy taking the ball to the other side of the court, go watch some Lakers tapes cause you need it before you keep arguing.

it's logic. It may not be true, but it's more likely to happen than not...it's my opinion, not fact, but it's still logical

The fact is that Payton will take the ball to the other side of the court & will organized the offense, if Triangle is going to run he will start just like Fisher has been doing it, if the ball has to go to Shaq/Malone, he will get that to them, that's logic and it's my opinion as well.

therefore makes sense and is not 'stoopid.'

Mine made sense as well and is not stupid. What's stupid of your statement? To think that just cause Payton is too competitive is not good for the team:

Payton's too much for this team. He's too competitive, he likes to shoot, and he likes to have the ball in his hand.... why change it because you have four superstars? You'll cause tons of damage..

There you have it.

And quote me where I said the Lakers should keep the same players...

You didn't say they should keep the same players but it's your opinion that anything the Lakers do to get better will cause a chaos as you are trying to explain yourself with the Triangle.

this isn't NBA Live, this is the real NBA where teams run more than one offense...

For your records, I'm not an NBA Live fan or play the game, so don't ever think I'm comparing the real life with that game, that's why you won't find any of my posts in other sections than NBA Talk.

The offense, his style of play, his ego, his teammates' egos, and so on.

Again, go back to the Roster of Seattle when Kemp was there, a bunch of stars and all of them were productive and helping. His style of playing the game is the style of the Point Guard. His offense, he was the main guy in his teams cause nobody else would step up, you won't say he was a Kobe who would take the ball to the other side just to shoot it, Payton is a PG organized in all the areas. His ego? He played with Kemp who demanded the ball in his hands as well, he played with Ricky Pierce who was shooting all the balls he touched, he knows how to share the ball and if he has to give up his points, knowing there's an open teammate, he would cause that's how he is. He just didn't have the luck to have offensive players like Shaq/Kobe before.

Yet you focus on the offense which you don't even understand! What kind of fan are you?

I'm a Lakers fan and the only one focused on the "Offense" has been you, since you keep talking about the Triangle when I've been trying to explain to you the Lakers run that in other ways.

*sigh* IT'S AN OFFENSE!! IT DOESN'T CHANGE!!! IT CHANGES PLAYERS AND NOTHING ELSE! For fuck's sake, get it through your head that I'm not making up what the triangle OFFENSE is, it's there, the Lakers run it and have for the last four years, and the Bulls ran it for how long?

See what I'm saying? I've already explained to you what the Lakers offense is about, I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore regarding that.

The triangle is the triangle. Period.

Nobody is saying the triangle is a circle/square Shane,

Malone'll be fine in LA...it's Payton who I don't think will work out

You are not a Lakers fan, period.

[Vins15]

chill scubilete......itz not like Shane just kicked ur dog or sumthing

[scubilete]

I'm cool, but hate to see guys always against the Lakers and trying to keep them down. Anything the Lakers do to get better, they will go against it, now they better hide cause I don't think the taste will be good for them,

[Clinton]

Has anyone who thinks that the triangle offence will make this not work out factored in who coaches this team...Phil Jackson, if he isn't the best coach in history he isn't far behind. Do you really think he is going to run the triangle that often anymore with Payton and Malone on the squad. I'm sure Phil is aware that the triangle doesn't need a point guard, well now he has one of the best in the league, things are going to change. Their offence will not resemble anything they did last season. It is a totally different situation and I'm sure Coach Phil will get the stars to work together as he has always been able to do.

[Shep]

82-0

[The Big Racist]

theire gonna get 50-70 wins and maybe if some1 wants more shots than he deserves than they may be a terrible team...like in 2000-01 season when kobe wanted to be the star (but in the playoffs kobe and shaq were friends again... ) this time it may go shaq/kobe against payton/malone! we all know that shaq and kobe wanted more shots this year!

[Wall St. Peon]

Scub, do a google search for the triangle offense. Find out which teams run it, learn what it is, then come back to me when you're not a fucking moron....

[air gordon]

nothing with a little fire in the belly. where to start? thank goodness there's a thread like this. i was getting tried of those mr newbie posts/threads

about chief: of course pip, jordan, and co. were still on the bulls when chief joined the team. you think chief would want to join the bulls when krause turned the team into a cba team? my point in bringing his name up is that you guys are saying the lakers now have 4 of greatest players ever in the game. but it's not really a big deal since malone & payton are only shades of their 'great' selves

btw swoosh, you're a hypocrite for knocking on me for making jokes about sexual assaults...

scub- if i'm not mistaken, before the lakers won the first of the 3peat championships, they were the ones getting their asses to themselves in the playoffs, gettting swept in consective years in the playoffs. and i still stand by my statement of preferring the 90's blazers players then the current malone and GP, especially if was surrounding 2 star players. and call me a loser if you want. only a wussy would sport purple as one of their main colors on their uniform...

glove: the difference between jordan at the time he helped the bulls win their 6th championship and the current malone & GP is this (perhaps there others but i think this is important): MJ was still considered one of the top players in league at the time. you can't say the same about those other 2 guys. and i still think those pg's i mentioned in an earlier post will light up GP. i think it was obvious that GP noticeably slipped on the defensive side last year. a big key in stopping Pg's is staying in front of them, which relies on quickness, which payton is losing (especially lateral) i am getting real also. i can't see him going back to the level of his defensive greatness, especially at his age. payton most likely won't be freelancing with the ball for most of the game like he did in seattle. triangle or no triangle- malone, shaq, bryant on the team, it's most likely not going to happen. so most likely down go his production on offense.

scub: malone could possibly average 10/5 a game. but it's also likely he could tear his ACL in the 1st qtr of the 1st game of the season or get charged with sexual assaults and retire in embarrasment. i'm not making any assumptions of malone's stats, or for any other nba player for that matter. as for rodman being the "fact for those championships" (fact?)... sheesh. please elaborate why if possible. he played a key "fact" with his defensive efforts on malone but i strongly disagree with your statement. and i'll blindly assume others feel the same way.

i refuse to comment on the ongoing discussion between shane and scub because this is getting too long

[Robby]

only a wussy would sport purple as one of their main colors on their uniform...

Grow up

but it's also likely he could tear his ACL in the 1st qtr of the 1st game of the season or get charged with sexual assaults and retire in embarrasment

And this is going to happen since Malone is frequently injured and is always in trouble with the law. Your argument for Payton's decline was good and valid, but this is just nonsense.

[Swoosh]

Limp i know, im already sorry i posted that thread, i was just in a really bad mood, been goin' thru a lot of things in my personal life and its affecting my sense of judgement so im sorry, no hard feelin's?

[scubilete]

Scub, do a google search for the triangle offense.

Triangle offense, that's all you know, that's all you say, that's all you learn, that's all you talk about, that's the best you can do. And later you say I'm the one talking about any freaky triangle. I truly believed you were intelligent and knew more than that but all you are showing everyone here is that your mind is locked and you are not able to listen or learn, keep your triangle, maybe your brain looks like it.

then come back to me when you're not a fucking moron...

Notice Shane that I knew you were a Cabron before you called me moron, , Go and ask your dad to see what he thinks about the game cause obviously you don't know anything you are saying and also ask him for some advise to get some education & learn to listen others so your brain can develop, SOB.

but it's not really a big deal since malone & payton are only shades of their 'great' selves

However, they still average good shooting percentage, in Malone's case: score over 17 ppg, grab over 8 rebs per game, his free throws are at his best, something any youngster would love to accomplish. In Payton's case: the guy score over 17 ppg as well, give over 7 assists per game, and steals & defends his opponents better than when he was a rookie. I'm not saying they will keep those numbers but you are comparing those numbers with a Robert Parish who got to the Bulls with a low average of almost 3 ppg, 2 rebs and 0.3 blocks. That's the difference here in your comparison.

scub: malone could possibly average 10/5 a game. but it's also likely he could tear his ACL in the 1st qtr of the 1st game of the season

Limp, I already said if they stay healthy so no need to get your point to that, you know well what the statement says when you want to compare an almost vanished Robert Parish with some guys who were still getting to the all-star games and averaging over 17 points per game.

scub- if i'm not mistaken, before the lakers won the first of the 3peat championships, they were the ones getting their asses to themselves in the playoffs, gettting swept in consective years in the playoffs. and i still stand by my statement of preferring the 90's blazers players then the current malone and GP

I'm not saying that's wrong, they did get swept and had trouble but "those 90's blazers like you would call them" were not the ones doing it, the Jazz who got later to the Finals and the Spurs who won the Finals. Plus, don't call them 90s blazers knowing Pippen was not part of any 90s blazers, it was 2000's Blazers and if you remember well, the Lakers were the ones (with just 2 stars) showing the Blazers you can't do much with a bunch of PFs & a terrific PG.

[putodelagoa]

Malone + Payton for 6 millions....

What more is there to say...

When you get this talent at this price, how can you argue that the Lakers idd a bad deal?...

[GloveGuy]

MJ was still considered one of the top players in league at the time. you can't say the same about those other 2 guys.

Even though I don't think that Payton and Malone are at the ranking that MJ was at, they are still pretty close in my mind. You look at their present day stats and you're just amazed thinking, "Wow, how could these guys still be putting up these stats and playing these minutes at the age that they are." In my mind, Payton is top 2 point guard in the league while Malone will be playing for Team USA this summer. They might be passed their prime but they still have so much to offer.

and i still think those pg's i mentioned in an earlier post will light up GP. i think it was obvious that GP noticeably slipped on the defensive side last year. a big key in stopping Pg's is staying in front of them, which relies on quickness, which payton is losing (especially lateral) i am getting real also. i can't see him going back to the level of his defensive greatness, especially at his age.

If thats the way you think...but I'd take GP over any of those PG's in the league right now. His defense maybe has slipped a bit due to his lesser quickness but you don't have to be quicker than everyone to be a really good defender. When the Lakers are facing the Nets next year and if it comes down to the last possession for New Jersey, Payton will stop Kidd. He's one of the most reliable guard defenders in the leauge still. He might not steal the ball as much but he can still stop the opposing point guard when you need him to.