Jason Williams ready to return

[Andrew]

Funny thing is, he's only 24 and has probably higher skill level/potential than most of the PGs in this years draft, but people will look at him and see only the injury that he had. I really hope he'll prove them wrong and become a great contributor/starter in this League.

Considering the severity of his injury it's not without reason. Players with more "conventional" injuries and were just as good as Jay Williams (or better) have never quite been the same upon returning. It will be a good story if he comes back and proves the doubters wrong but it's not like the doubt isn't there for a reason.

[Fenix]

True, but people see only what injury took away from him (namely athleticism) and not the player he still is and can be.

[Its_asdf]

If he does sign with the Raptors, where does this leave barrett? Does Williams play behind Barrett or in front? I wouldnt mind giving him a try, but i kinda see a problem. If we dont draft a point guard, the Raptors will have a very inexperienced point guard rotation. Even if experience might not be a factor, im not so sure if barrett and williams are good enough to be a primary backup point. However, if we do draft a point guard, Im not sure if we should sign him, mainly because of the log jam it would create. Once again, keep in mind we have Barrett's contract (though hes tradable i guess, and i think also finishes cotract at the end of 06-07 season). Not saying we should draft a pg or anything or whetherto sign this guy or not. Just something to think or discuss.

You're joking, right? Barrett is a 3rd string point guard, maybe 2nd stringer at best on a team that doesn't have guard depth.

He's got a pretty streaky shot and although he did play with a lot of heart, he doesn't even come close to being a legitimate solution to the Rators' pg problems. Jay Williams right now is probably twice as good as Barrett is.

[Stevesanity]

Would be good to see him back, I think he can be a poor man's Tim Hardaway if he gets his minutes and can cope up with the pace of the league. It'll take some time but he can turn out to be a really handy backup PG for any team if he gets his grove going if/when he's back in the league.

[air gordon]

True, but people see only what injury took away from him (namely athleticism) and not the player he still is and can be.

yeh but "only" is hell of a lot- we're talking about nerve damage in the leg AND torn ACL's

williams best assets were his quickness and ability to 'explode' past people. IIRC- williams did have one of the top scores in the agility tests way back when he was a nba prospect

as the report on draft express said- he may never get that full explosiveness back and his lateral movement might be the thing he needs to improve on the most

[Axel]

It's not like he was a veteran when he got injured. Not only is he going to have to cope with the loss of speed, agility, and rust, but he will also still be 'learning' how to play in the NBA. He lost some of the best possible years of his career... I just don't expect a whole lot from him. At best an Alonzo Mourning type of story, but I doubt even that much, considering how bad his injury was.

[Fenix]

You're proving my point. He is competing against his former self and people refuse to see that his athleticism is still good enough to get past anybody in this league. Weis said over at RealGM forums that while he lost some of his vertical explosion, he still posseses quickness superior to most of the NBA (he mentioned Mike James and that's a superstar we're talking about here ). But no, people will say he doesn't fly like Steve Francis anymore. That's not the case. He's a different player now, true, but if he passes his medical exams, he'll become just another basketball player trying to come back to the League and should be treated as such. But he can pass as many medical exams as he wants, people will still treat him as damaged goods. If I'm a team like Toronto, who has Calderon being able to play in front of him, I'd take him in a hearbeat. That's like having two lottery picks at once. He has a wondeful skillset, improved jumpshot and is will probably be a great locker room presence.

[air gordon]

You're proving my point. He is competing against his former self and people refuse to see that his athleticism is still good enough to get past anybody in this league. Weis said over at RealGM forums that while he lost some of his vertical explosion, he still posseses quickness superior to most of the NBA (he mentioned Mike James and that's a superstar we're talking about here ). But no, people will say he doesn't fly like Steve Francis anymore. That's not the case. He's a different player now, true, but if he passes his medical exams, he'll become just another basketball player trying to come back to the League and should be treated as such. But he can pass as many medical exams as he wants, people will still treat him as damaged goods. If I'm a team like Toronto, who has Calderon being able to play in front of him, I'd take him in a hearbeat. That's like having two lottery picks at once. He has a wondeful skillset, improved jumpshot and is will probably be a great locker room presence.

ANYONE??? has Williams even participated in full court games vs NBA competition while NBA scouts looks on?

why doesn't Williams have workouts vs NBA elite PG's instead of nba prospects?

He's going to be viewed as damaged goods until he can prove he's not. and that means stepping on the NBA court, playing back to backs, 4 games in 5 games, etc. and producing

and Lottery pick? from draft express:

With that said, there is little doubt from what we saw here that he can contribute somewhere next year in a backup role, and there is always the upside of him regaining most or all of the physical tools that made him such an incredible college player to start with. The passing, shooting and intagnibles he brings to the table should allow him to strar of in a 10-15 minute role, and anything beyond that is gravy both for him and the lucky NBA team that is able to sign him.

Williams already had a hard time adjusting to the league when he still had the all world athleticism...

[Fenix]

Anyone. Yes, anyone, not only Williams. Scouts said it themselves - he still has great quickness. What part is fuzzy here? And no one said that Lottery picks have to step right in. We are talking about a guy who hasn't played competive basketball for nearly two years. Of course he'll need time to adjust and he won't be able to start right away, but how many 'rookies' (yes, this is basically his rookie year all over again) are there that can do that? He still has as much talent and potential than any PG in this draft class. Has he been injured? Is that a concern? Sure he was and sure it is, but my point was that people will underrate and underestimate him because of that and that is a bit unfair. Based on what we know as of right now, he totally deserves a chance and should get one.

And Draftexpress was clearly saying that this is a completely different player than Jay Williams from two years ago. You comparing him with that is exactly what I said will happen - he is competing against a player he once was. That's exactly why he's doing all those workouts right now - to prove to teams that he isn't that same player anymore, for better or worse.

[air gordon]

i'll give props for looking good in workouts. but let's see it real NBA games, or atleast vs NBa competition.. in a full court game. A lot of players have looked great in workouts but it didn't translate on to playing the actual game. is it necessary to go through that laundry list?

Shane Battier in workouts actually tested better then Jason Richardson on a few of the agility tests. It wasn't because Battier was the better athelte, it was because his body was more mature and put a shit load of work in the weightroom.

you haven't answered my question. he's worked out against college players... no one from the NBA elite. why not? he hasn't played in full court games vs NBA players...having great quickness and being able to blow by anybody are 2 different things, nevermind blowing by college prospects and the NBA elite

he couldn't blow by his defenders on a consistent basis before the accident in his rookie year but now after nerve damage and torn ACL's he magically can?

there is nothing unfair about "underrating/underestimating" him for reasons you spoke of. in fact you are playing both sides of the fence here. serious injury, not playing for 2yrs, etc? anyone in their right mind will be at the least a little pessimistic- all of sudden we're supposed to believe he's better then any PG in this draft because he's doing drills in a gym?

and of course he deserves a chance (lol). i never disputed that. i haven't read anywhere how Jay Williams is the most coveted PG in the FA class. am i missing something?

[Abctest123]

If he does sign with the Raptors, where does this leave barrett? Does Williams play behind Barrett or in front? I wouldnt mind giving him a try, but i kinda see a problem. If we dont draft a point guard, the Raptors will have a very inexperienced point guard rotation. Even if experience might not be a factor, im not so sure if barrett and williams are good enough to be a primary backup point. However, if we do draft a point guard, Im not sure if we should sign him, mainly because of the log jam it would create. Once again, keep in mind we have Barrett's contract (though hes tradable i guess, and i think also finishes cotract at the end of 06-07 season). Not saying we should draft a pg or anything or whetherto sign this guy or not. Just something to think or discuss.

You're joking, right? Barrett is a 3rd string point guard, maybe 2nd stringer at best on a team that doesn't have guard depth.

He's got a pretty streaky shot and although he did play with a lot of heart, he doesn't even come close to being a legitimate solution to the Rators' pg problems. Jay Williams right now is probably twice as good as Barrett is.

i think with my post, i put too much emphasis on the importance if Barrett, I totally typed something totally unrelated to what i wanted to express with that earlier post *idiot* (dont ask how that happened). I know he is a third stringer, but thats just a minor, sorry bout the stupidity of the earlier post. My main point is, if the Raptors sign Williams, he wont be the solution to the Raptors' problems. If we sign him, our pg rotation is STILL calderon-williams-barrett. There is VERY little experience with that lineup. Im not sure calderon can be a full time starter YET. Yes, you can say we can draft a pg, but if we do, that causes another problem, logjam at the PG(IF we draft a pg). There isnt any point guard in the draft that comes close to Chris Paul either.

EDIT: to sum it up, I agree with the bottom part of your reply.

[Fenix]

i'll give props for looking good in workouts. but let's see it real NBA games, or atleast vs NBa competition.. in a full court game. A lot of players have looked great in workouts but it didn't translate on to playing the actual game. is it necessary to go through that laundry list?

Shane Battier in workouts actually tested better then Jason Richardson on a few of the agility tests. It wasn't because Battier was the better athelte, it was because his body was more mature and put a shit load of work in the weightroom.

you haven't answered my question. he's worked out against college players... no one from the NBA elite. why not? he hasn't played in full court games vs NBA players...having great quickness and being able to blow by anybody are 2 different things, nevermind blowing by college prospects and the NBA elite

he couldn't blow by his defenders on a consistent basis before the accident in his rookie year but now after nerve damage and torn ACL's he magically can?

there is nothing unfair about "underrating/underestimating" him for reasons you spoke of. in fact you are playing both sides of the fence here. serious injury, not playing for 2yrs, etc? anyone in their right mind will be at the least a little pessimistic- all of sudden we're supposed to believe he's better then any PG in this draft because he's doing drills in a gym?

and of course he deserves a chance (lol). i never disputed that. i haven't read anywhere how Jay Williams is the most coveted PG in the FA class. am i missing something?

He's not doing workouts against NBA players because these are predraft workouts. No one is doing them or allowed to do them. Come the summer league, he'll have a chance to prove there how good he is in actual games.

And quick PGs like Willams gained a lot with new rules, which make penetration much easier.

No one is saying that he need 10 million per year. My only point is - which you blatantly ignore - that his current abillity will be underrated because of his past injury and he can prove them wrong as much as he wants to, either on the basketball court or in the hospital doing medical exams.

[iKe7in]

I hope the Raptors sign him, and let him compete with Calderon for backup minutes. It's not like Andre Barret as a 12th man would make all the difference. At least Williams may still have an upside, if he's given an opportunity to develop.

Of course he's not going to be the player he could or should have been. But I think he can still be a helpful reserve, if not a good 7th or 8th man. And maybe someone would take Barret off our hands for a late second rounder or someone's draft rights from years previous.

[Abctest123]

I hope the Raptors sign him, and let him compete with Calderon for backup minutes.

Just wondering, but who do you have in mind as the Raptors starting point then?

[iKe7in]

My guess is that there will either be a draft day trade, not neccesarily the first pick, that will grab them a point guard. I doubt it will be anyone of any significance, but at least someone who can start. But if Colangelo finds out that won't happen, I think he will deal the first pick and move down to draft Marcus Williams.

Worst case scenario they end up signing Claxton for a year or two, even though they'll be overpaying.

[Sauru]

never really see anyone in any sport trading down the first pick. i dont really understand why sometimes, it could really turn out to help you in some cases. hell look at the nfl this year. everyone knew who should be the top pick and he actually didnt get picked first. if that team didnt want him they could have worked out a deal to drop to 2nd, get anything in return, still get the player they wanted and walk away with a 5th round pick or better. now basketball tends to be vastly different than the nfl in terms of 1 player cha nging a team so i suspect thats why you dont see teams trade down very often.

[[L3]1101]

never really see anyone in any sport trading down the first pick. i dont really understand why sometimes, it could really turn out to help you in some cases. hell look at the nfl this year. everyone knew who should be the top pick and he actually didnt get picked first. if that team didnt want him they could have worked out a deal to drop to 2nd, get anything in return, still get the player they wanted and walk away with a 5th round pick or better. now basketball tends to be vastly different than the nfl in terms of 1 player cha nging a team so i suspect thats why you dont see teams trade down very often.

Great point.

Especially for a draft year like this, trading down can really help the raps if they make the right deal. Aldridge is great, but he isn't Tim Duncan, or Shaq.
Trading down could give us more options.

[Sauru]

if the raptors could land a future first round pick and only move down a few spots (stay in the top 10) then i think it could definetly be a good move on their part

[Andrew]

If the Raptors did want to trade down, trading the #1 to Chicago for #2 and #16 works for me.

[Sauru]

i dont think that would be a bad trade for the raptors to be honest.

[air gordon]

i'll give props for looking good in workouts. but let's see it real NBA games, or atleast vs NBa competition.. in a full court game. A lot of players have looked great in workouts but it didn't translate on to playing the actual game. is it necessary to go through that laundry list?

Shane Battier in workouts actually tested better then Jason Richardson on a few of the agility tests. It wasn't because Battier was the better athelte, it was because his body was more mature and put a shit load of work in the weightroom.

you haven't answered my question. he's worked out against college players... no one from the NBA elite. why not? he hasn't played in full court games vs NBA players...having great quickness and being able to blow by anybody are 2 different things, nevermind blowing by college prospects and the NBA elite

he couldn't blow by his defenders on a consistent basis before the accident in his rookie year but now after nerve damage and torn ACL's he magically can?

there is nothing unfair about "underrating/underestimating" him for reasons you spoke of. in fact you are playing both sides of the fence here. serious injury, not playing for 2yrs, etc? anyone in their right mind will be at the least a little pessimistic- all of sudden we're supposed to believe he's better then any PG in this draft because he's doing drills in a gym?

and of course he deserves a chance (lol). i never disputed that. i haven't read anywhere how Jay Williams is the most coveted PG in the FA class. am i missing something?

He's not doing workouts against NBA players because these are predraft workouts. No one is doing them or allowed to do them. Come the summer league, he'll have a chance to prove there how good he is in actual games.

And quick PGs like Willams gained a lot with new rules, which make penetration much easier.

No one is saying that he need 10 million per year. My only point is - which you blatantly ignore - that his current abillity will be underrated because of his past injury and he can prove them wrong as much as he wants to, either on the basketball court or in the hospital doing medical exams.

lol i'm not disputing people will underrate him because of his injury

he is a FA, not a nba PROSPECT lol.

i never said he will get $10 million a year- stop dodging the point you were trying to make- if he is better then any PG prospect in this draft, clearly he would be the most coveted PG in the FA. and to my knowledge, there haven't been any articles mentioning him as that

lol damnit stop being selective and respond to my whole post. otherwise i'll just assume you agree with what you're not responding to lol

bah whatever. you believe Jay Williams is going to be some star based on a workout against a nba prospect...

[iKe7in]

If the Raptors did want to trade down, trading the #1 to Chicago for #2 and #16 works for me.

I'd even take the #2 and the Knicks pick next year.

[[L3]1101]

If the Raptors did want to trade down, trading the #1 to Chicago for #2 and #16 works for me.

I would take that trade in a heartbeat. I think Chicago can benefit more from the #1 that we can. They are just one good player away from being a great team. Raptors on the other hand need a lot more, besides Raptors have a lot of options when deciding who to draft. If Aldridge is not available, we can always consider Morrison, Gay, Bargs, Thomas, or Williams, but where as the Bulls may only want Aldridge or Thomas.

And the #16 is also a big plus. We won't find a star player at #16, but maybe a good role player. Not much of a risk if it turns out to be a bust.

[CERVANTES]

I wish him the best ! I love how he played in Duke and in the Bulls. I remember specially a dunk he failed on a fastbreak, it was ridiculous, but anyways a funny moment to remember. Good luck Jay !

[[Q]]

Barrett's a good backup, ubt I think they will let him go. Another option for the Raps is to sign JWill and then draft one of the big men to bolster their frontcourt, whether it's Bargnani or Aldredge.