Kobe "Hater" thread

[CuhRazy]

in 1 sentence?

[BMG]

So you still hate him.. Why's that?

I don't hate him, I have no respect for him
I think he's a pompous, arrogant individual.

[dada]

So you still hate him.. Why's that?

I don't hate him, I have no respect for him
I think he's a pompous, arrogant individual.

good one there.

[Carmo]

Pancitcooker wrote:
So you still hate him.. Why's that?


I don't hate him, I have no respect for him
I think he's a pompous, arrogant individual.

Very original

[Andrew]

I still don't consider myself a hater, though I'm not exactly a fan either. I just resent the fact you can't criticise Kobe at all without it being put down to "hating". Honestly, he could shoot 0/30 in a game and the simple observation made that he had a tough night from the field, and it would be written off as "hating". Interesting that similar treatment of past greats was considered "being smarter than the average fan", not "hating".

'till this day I still feel that's it was his ability to walk without compensation to the Lakers that made Dr. Buss create the breakup of the Phil/Shaq/Kobe dynasty...no one here has mentioned or reference anything about Jackson's book The Last season (which I have completed from cover to cover ) which tells of Jeannie Buss explaining to Jackson that because of how young Kobe is AND how much of a star he is, it'll pretty much sell out the Arena for the next 15 years. (Whereas with Shaq who we are now seeing a noticeable decline in abilities)

I did, but it was dismissed as hating.

It's probably exaggerated a bit because Kobe is portrayed as demanding Shaq be traded and giving the Lakers ultimatums and from all accounts that wouldn't seem to be the case. But considering his brief flirtation with the Clippers and the account in Jackson's book where Kobe admits Shaq's presence would affect his decision to return, it's not really jumping to conclusions to read between the lines and suggest Kobe did hint (albeit in a subtle way) that he wasn't happy playing with Shaq and didn't find the prospect of returning to the Lakers as appealing if Shaq was still a part of the team.

That matter is now long behind both players of course, but I believe it's a justifiable reason for disliking Kobe. The fact of the matter is, as fans we are free to dislike certain players for their character or approach to the game. We're even free to hate them, wasteful as such feelings may be. However, it's possible to dislike/hate a player but still respect them and acknowledge their accomplishments and abilities.

To that end, I don't think disliking a player alone makes you a hater. An opinion such as "He's a fantastic player, I just can't stand him" just doesn't come off as ating to me, nor is making a valid criticism "hating". These days there's a knee-jerk reaction to seemingly any comments about Kobe (or for that matter, LeBron) that isn't glowing praise, with the cries of "Hater! Hater!" raining down on whoever dared to offer a different opinion no matter how well-founded. Maybe we're more aware of the anti-culture that's been developing in the latter half of the 90s.

That said, there is a lot of hating towards Kobe amongst others, but I believe a lot of valid points are dismissed as hating and that fans who don't support a certain player for their own reasons but don't deny how good he is are maligned as haters.

[Blasphemy]

I still love that pic on the first page.

[J@3]

I still don't consider myself a hater, though I'm not exactly a fan either. I just resent the fact you can't criticise Kobe at all without it being put down to "hating". Honestly, he could shoot 0/30 in a game and the simple observation made that he had a tough night from the field, and it would be written off as "hating". Interesting that similar treatment of past greats was considered "being smarter than the average fan", not "hating".

'till this day I still feel that's it was his ability to walk without compensation to the Lakers that made Dr. Buss create the breakup of the Phil/Shaq/Kobe dynasty...no one here has mentioned or reference anything about Jackson's book The Last season (which I have completed from cover to cover ) which tells of Jeannie Buss explaining to Jackson that because of how young Kobe is AND how much of a star he is, it'll pretty much sell out the Arena for the next 15 years. (Whereas with Shaq who we are now seeing a noticeable decline in abilities)

I did, but it was dismissed as hating.

It's probably exaggerated a bit because Kobe is portrayed as demanding Shaq be traded and giving the Lakers ultimatums and from all accounts that wouldn't seem to be the case. But considering his brief flirtation with the Clippers and the account in Jackson's book where Kobe admits Shaq's presence would affect his decision to return, it's not really jumping to conclusions to read between the lines and suggest Kobe did hint (albeit in a subtle way) that he wasn't happy playing with Shaq and didn't find the prospect of returning to the Lakers as appealing if Shaq was still a part of the team.

That matter is now long behind both players of course, but I believe it's a justifiable reason for disliking Kobe. The fact of the matter is, as fans we are free to dislike certain players for their character or approach to the game. We're even free to hate them, wasteful as such feelings may be. However, it's possible to dislike/hate a player but still respect them and acknowledge their accomplishments and abilities.

To that end, I don't think disliking a player alone makes you a hater. An opinion such as "He's a fantastic player, I just can't stand him" just doesn't come off as ating to me, nor is making a valid criticism "hating". These days there's a knee-jerk reaction to seemingly any comments about Kobe (or for that matter, LeBron) that isn't glowing praise, with the cries of "Hater! Hater!" raining down on whoever dared to offer a different opinion no matter how well-founded. Maybe we're more aware of the anti-culture that's been developing in the latter half of the 90s.

That said, there is a lot of hating towards Kobe amongst others, but I believe a lot of valid points are dismissed as hating and that fans who don't support a certain player for their own reasons but don't deny how good he is are maligned as haters.

I don't really buy that, the "hating" term is only really applied to idiots who accuse him of trying to be like Michael Jordan, or going on about his personality and what he does outside of basketball. Also for times like the 81 point game, or the game against Dallas where people still criticised him for not having more assists. That sort of thing would happen to no one else in the entire league apart from Kobe, which is why it's generally seen as hating. I really don't believe that all criticism is seen as hating though, that kind of thing died out last season.

[Andrew]

But again, why is criticising Kobe's actions outside basketball or his personality considered hating whereas for other players it's more a case of "telling it like it is"? From Michael Jordan's gambling and other habits (both basketball related and personal) to Shawn Kemp's paternity issues and cocaine problem, it's all considered fair game. With a Kobe, it's a cheap shot and irrelevant...which it is, but the same consideration isn't given to other players past or present.

And to be fair, when I mention the unwarranted hating accusations I am referring mostly to a group of Homerish fans who seem to exist for pretty much every great player in any sport, ever.

[J@3]

But again, why is criticising Kobe's actions outside basketball or his personality considered hating whereas for other players it's more a case of "telling it like it is"?

No one hates Michael Jordan because of his gambling, no one hates Shawn Kemp because he was a crack addict and has about a million kids. When people talk about guys like that you don't hear "Oh yeah that fat drug addict" or "Jordan? The guy with the gambling problem?". They'll talk about them in a more complimentary light, whereas with most Kobe haters, the first thing they'll come out with is "rapist". Plus, unlike Jordan's gambling or Kemp's drugs/children, Kobe's alleged rape has never been proven.

And to be fair, when I mention the unwarranted hating accusations I am referring mostly to a group of Homerish fans who seem to exist for pretty much every great player in any sport, ever.

That pretty much happens to most players, as we've seen with the Paul Pierce group.

[Andrew]

No one hates Michael Jordan because of his gambling, no one hates Shawn Kemp because he was a crack addict and has about a million kids. When people talk about guys like that you don't hear "Oh yeah that fat drug addict" or "Jordan? The guy with the gambling problem?". They'll talk about them in a more complimentary light, whereas with most Kobe haters, the first thing they'll come out with is "rapist". Plus, unlike Jordan's gambling or Kemp's drugs/children, Kobe's alleged rape has never been proven.

They still criticise or mock them for it. Again, why is it OK to mock Shawn Kemp's paternity issues (I believe the official count was revealed to be eight) or a serious issue such as his cocaine addiction but if, say, Kobe's infidelity is brought up or the fact he initially denied it then admitted to it, there's a backlash to lay off. I'm not sure Kemp is often brought up in a complimentary light these days.

I agree about the whole "rapist" thing, that's getting old and the fact he's been cleared of those charges should be enough. But at the same time, I personally find it difficult to feel sorry for him regardless of what may or may not have happened, since it's a situation he could've avoided had he not been unfaithful. Likewise, I find it difficult to feel sorry for Michael Jordan with the whole hush money scandal because he too could've avoided that debacle had he not been unfaithful. You could say it's not my place to judge them and you're right, but that doesn't mean I have to feel sorry for them.

That pretty much happens to most players, as we've seen with the Paul Pierce group.

Absolutely, it happens to prominent individuals not only in sports but in the entertainment industry too. I never said it didn't, I simply gave my opinion on the phenomenon in regards to Kobe because this the Kobe Hater Thread.

[Cloudy]

This is a:

Tim Thomas "Hater" Post.

[The_Flying_Tomato]

This is a:

Tim Thomas is more clutch than Robert Horry Post.

rofl.

Nash made a pretty good statement for MVP there, so cloudy, the answer to your sig: Yes.

[ceewah]

www.kobehaters.blogspot.com

[The X]

wasn't going to comment but I enjoyed Andrew & Jae's rants

I too don't like the term 'hater'....I fully respect Kobe's ability on the basketball court, it's just the other things that mean I won't cheer the guy on....it's not the whole 'raping' or cheating thing which makes my gf hate the guy....a lot of NBA players do that (cheating, not raping)....I didn't like the whole Shaq situation, the whole Karl Malone situation & various other situations that I think could've been handled better....sure, Kobe's a great player & I do marvel at his basketball skills, but that's about as much as the respect goes....

does that make me a hater, I don't think so....but others probably wouldn't agree....

[Laker Socks]

It's probably exaggerated a bit because Kobe is portrayed as demanding Shaq be traded and giving the Lakers ultimatums and from all accounts that wouldn't seem to be the case. But considering his brief flirtation with the Clippers and the account in Jackson's book where Kobe admits Shaq's presence would affect his decision to return, it's not really jumping to conclusions to read between the lines and suggest Kobe did hint (albeit in a subtle way) that he wasn't happy playing with Shaq and didn't find the prospect of returning to the Lakers as appealing if Shaq was still a part of the team.

With all due respect, people seem to forget the part where Shaq DEMANDED that he be traded. If Shaq did not demand a trade, irregardless of which team Kobe was flirting with, Shaq would probably have remained a laker.

He demanded that he be traded. That's fact.

People also ALWAYS forget the part that in the preseason, Shaq made a basket then looked at Dr. Buss and uttered "Are you gonna pay me now motherfucker?"

You dont disrespect Dr. Buss and expect to be paid the moon.

[Andrew]

With all due respect, people seem to forget the part where Shaq DEMANDED that he be traded. If Shaq did not demand a trade, irregardless of which team Kobe was flirting with, Shaq would probably have remained a laker.

He demanded that he be traded. That's fact.

People also ALWAYS forget the part that in the preseason, Shaq made a basket then looked at Dr. Buss and uttered "Are you gonna pay me now motherfucker?"

You dont disrespect Dr. Buss and expect to be paid the moon.

True, though that's the first time I've heard of Shaq adding "motherfucker" to the end of that sentence in that incident.

Shaq was not a free agent when he made that demand, though he had one year left before he could opt out. Still, there was no immediate danger if the Lakers did not fulfil his trade demand and insisted on both parties sorting our their differences. At the very least, the fact that Kobe hinted that Shaq's presence would affect his decision to stay surely went a little way in making Dr Buss, Mitch Kupchak and co feel better about trading him.

As I said, it's an exaggeration to say he drove Shaq out of town, unless you want to consider his role in their feud. But I think his stance did have some influence in making the deal. He'd hardly be the first star player to do it, but it's a fair observation to make and some people dislike him because of it. Perhaps they're not being completely fair and ignoring Shaq's role in the whole affair, but so long as they acknowledge Kobe's talent and accomplishments, they're not really "hating".

[Laker Socks]

True, though that's the first time I've heard of Shaq adding "motherfucker" to the end of that sentence in that incident.

He really did call Dr. Buss a motherfucker. I memory serves me right, i think the game was in Anaheim.

Shaq was not a free agent when he made that demand, though he had one year left before he could opt out. Still, there was no immediate danger if the Lakers did not fulfil his trade demand and insisted on both parties sorting our their differences.

Actually, Shaq declared he was gonna opt out if he was not traded and even threatened to slack off.

At the very least, the fact that Kobe hinted that Shaq's presence would affect his decision to stay surely went a little way in making Dr Buss, Mitch Kupchak and co feel better about trading him.

Actually no. If the lakers wanted to trade Shaq, they would've done it at a time when his value is high like the trade deadline. In that offseason, the lakers were pressured to make a deal ASAP because Shaq was threatening to slack off.

That in turn gave other teams leverage in potential deals which lead to IMO one of the worst trades in the history of the NBA. The lakers could've gotten a better deal or even insisted that Shaq and Dr Buss and Kobe settle their differences if not for Shaq threatening the organization.

As I said, it's an exaggeration to say he drove Shaq out of town, unless you want to consider his role in their feud. But I think his stance did have some influence in making the deal. He'd hardly be the first star player to do it, but it's a fair observation to make and some people dislike him because of it.

Of course his stance did have an influence in making the deal. But the bigger issue in the Shaq trade was the Shaq VS Dr Buss fiasco. A problem that haters(im not referring to anyone in particular) seem to forget intentionally.

Perhaps they're not being completely fair and ignoring Shaq's role in the whole affair, but so long as they acknowledge Kobe's talent and accomplishments, they're not really "hating".

I actually think it's downright unfair since it was Shaq who demanded a trade and it was Shaq who insulted Dr Buss. Besides, Shaq was asking for a maximum contract extension that would absolutely cripple the chances of the lakers signing role players even for the MLE.

[hipn]

I hate how Kobe gets away with virtually anything. I hate the whoel Superstar treatment thing overall.

[CuhRazy]

So does everyone.

BTW, when is he changing numbers to 24?

[Drex]

Next season, I guess.

[Laker Socks]

I hate how Kobe gets away with virtually anything. I hate the whoel Superstar treatment thing overall

I have watched maybe 85% of all laker games in the regular season.
You cant even believe how teams can get away with hacking kobe and there's no call whatsoever.

But for those like you who have seen very few laker games, i refer you to game 1. Kobe had a knot on his head due to a foul by Tim Thomas in a crucial moment of the game. The problem is the refs did not call the foul. Well, Tim Thomas isnt really a superstar but he got away with that. Do you hate him now? 95% of NBA players get away with things, do you hate them now?

The problem with Kobe haters is how they put Mr. Bean Bryant on a microscope and completely disregard facts and solely rely on their inputs which are usually B to the I-A-S-E-D. The same could said for Kobe homers but atleast these homers have facts to show when being questioned.

[air gordon]

Lets see how much Shaq can win without Phil and Kobe

Lets see how much Jordan can win without Pippen

Lets see how much Hakeem can win without Clyde

you asked so...

shaq has gotten closer to the winning the title then the other 2
Pippen won more games without Jordan then Jordan did without Pippen and Pippen also came closer to winning a title then Jordan.

now do either of these facts make a difference? probably not. but since we fans like to put everything under the microscope, score one for Shaq & Pippen

And actually Hakeem won a NBA title before Clyde joined the team

Put Kobe in Jordan time and he would be untouchable like he is rightnow-Nba is much better and harder rightnow-thats for sure!

not really since hand checking was allowed on the perimeter and defenses were generally allowed to play more physical.

Kobe is now 27 yrs old, MJ didn't win a championship until he was 29. At the start of his career MJ was regarded as merely a dunker. Basically MJ was regarded as being not so unlike clyde drexler, generally also regarded as a ballhog. Also, at that time there were rumors circulating that it was MJ who caused craig hodges (3pt champ) and charles oakley (yep, the guy whom ben wallace takes after, the reason why ben wallace even has an nba career) , both of them to split

you can't fault Jordan for going to college and it is somewhat of a credit to Bryant from making the successful jump from high school to pro's. but if you want to be fair, compare their first 10 years in the league. you'll see that many of Jordan's stats and awards blow Mr. Bryant out of the water


i think Bryant is supremely talented as a player no doubt. but i don't like him that much because of the whole soap opera between him, shaq, phil. a lot of people like to talk shit about Scottie Pippen, say he just rode Jordan's coat tails. But as it says in VanK's sig- "Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team." the Lakers had a great thing going but they crapped it all away

and also since the NBA markets individuals instead of the teams- he's overexposed. currently the NBA doesn't have the "it" guy to market. so instead we're force fed players like himself and LeBron James, 2 players that happen to play on teams that aren't even championship contenders

instead of seeing the best teams play, say, on Xmas day, ESPN/ABC is telling us to watch Kobe vs Shaq... what will happen next? but i'm going off on a tangent

oh, and of course, there are those Bryant jock riders who haven't seen Jordan play, or at least play in his prime, and say already that he's better then him lol. anywho game on...

[hipn]

LMAO On ESPN.com

[magius]

some comments afer the game,

there are going to be a lot of people implying that kobe quit on his team tonight..... and i have to agree. Now I know a lot of kobe fans will defend him by saying "oh he can't win with you, he scores 50 its his fault, he scores nothing its his fault," and i sympathise. But the fact is he didn't just score nothing... he did nothing. After the first half there was no aggressivness, and he didn't create so much as he did pass around the perimiter. Theres a difference. Its not like he wasn't scoring in order to create, because he didn't. I almost feel as if he wanted to prove something, or had too much pride to try.

That said I still respect him as a player. My main beef with kobe has never been about his talent. Like I've said before he is the 2nd or 3rd (imo 3rd) greatest shooting guard in nba history. not too shabby. I just feel he is to a degree overrated. I admit that I at times underrate him, but I try not to. I think he's a great player, but I don't think he's the greatest of his generation. Possibly the most talented, but that also is debatable with the likes of kg.

anyway good series! wonder whats up with nash's ankle....

[Andrew]

Actually, Shaq declared he was gonna opt out if he was not traded and even threatened to slack off.

He couldn't do that for an entire season though. Not to mention there was an entire offseason in which they could have attempted to mend the rift, sit both parties down and say "Look, we've got a good thing going here. Do you really want to bring that crashing down over some petty feud?" or words to that effect. But that's really more on the heads of Lakers' management.

Actually no. If the lakers wanted to trade Shaq, they would've done it at a time when his value is high like the trade deadline. In that offseason, the lakers were pressured to make a deal ASAP because Shaq was threatening to slack off.

That in turn gave other teams leverage in potential deals which lead to IMO one of the worst trades in the history of the NBA. The lakers could've gotten a better deal or even insisted that Shaq and Dr Buss and Kobe settle their differences if not for Shaq threatening the organization.

Yes, Shaq put them in a tough spot. But I think the fact that Kobe was hinting he wasn't too keen on returning to play alongside Shaq made them feel more comfortable about caving in to those demands.

Of course his stance did have an influence in making the deal. But the bigger issue in the Shaq trade was the Shaq VS Dr Buss fiasco. A problem that haters(im not referring to anyone in particular) seem to forget intentionally.

True. But no matter the issue, true haters conveniently ignore facts.

I actually think it's downright unfair since it was Shaq who demanded a trade and it was Shaq who insulted Dr Buss. Besides, Shaq was asking for a maximum contract extension that would absolutely cripple the chances of the lakers signing role players even for the MLE.

Well, everyone has a different perspective and draws their own conclusions from what we are told from the situation. It's at least fairer than those who dislike him simply because he's a great player.