KG to the Mavs... What Dallas SHOULD do!

[slam37]

One of the many topics of discussion among myself and my basketball friends as I call them are about what the Dallas Mavericks can do to actually win a championship...

After much thinking bout it, what do you guys think of this? Dallas trades Steve Nash and Michael Finely to the Timberwolves straight up for Kevin Garnett. With all this talk of Garnett leaving Minnesota etc, it seems this trade would benefit both teams. Nash and Finley is no shabby backcourt for the Wolves, or any team for that matter.

But for Dallas? Who could possibly stop a forward combination of Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki? That would arguably be the best 1-2 punch in the league, arguably next to Shaq and Kobe. In the west, where big men win it, this would put the Mavs higher in the ring race than keeping the current team they have. And they'd still have Van Exel running the point, who fits in just as well as Nash would with these two guys. Dallas would keep it's up tempo, fast-paced fast-breaking team ideals. If needed, they could still get more fitting role-players by ridding of Lafrenz, Najera, etc.

And lets not forget that Dallas has been eying Alonzo Mourning, for the excepetion. Even if Mourning comes back less than a superstar (pretty sure he won't be what he used too, but he will still be an elite center I would think), imagine a front court of Mourning, Garnett, and Nowitzki! That would simply be unstoppable. The Mavericks need to stop looking to stack talent, and should look to get talent that would make a run for the title they covet so badly.

[LeBron James]

One of the many topics of discussion among myself and my basketball friends as I call them are about what the Dallas Mavericks can do to actually win a championship...

After much thinking bout it, what do you guys think of this? Dallas trades Steve Nash and Michael Finely to the Timberwolves straight up for Kevin Garnett. With all this talk of Garnett leaving Minnesota etc, it seems this trade would benefit both teams. Nash and Finley is no shabby backcourt for the Wolves, or any team for that matter.

But for Dallas? Who could possibly stop a forward combination of Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki? That would arguably be the best 1-2 punch in the league, arguably next to Shaq and Kobe. In the west, where big men win it, this would put the Mavs higher in the ring race than keeping the current team they have. And they'd still have Van Exel running the point, who fits in just as well as Nash would with these two guys. Dallas would keep it's up tempo, fast-paced fast-breaking team ideals. If needed, they could still
get more fitting role-players by ridding of Lafrenz, Najera, etc.



And lets not forget that Dallas has been eying Alonzo Mourning, for the excepetion. Even if Mourning comes back less than a superstar (pretty sure he won't be what he used too, but he will still be an elite center I would think), imagine a front court of
Mourning, Garnett, and Nowitzki! That would simply be unstoppable. The Mavericks need

to stop looking to stack talent, and should look to get talent that would make a run for the


title they covet so badly.

you are right

[Andrew]

A frontcourt of KG and Nowitzki would be awesome, and Zo at centre would be the icing on the cake. I'd be hesitant to trade Nash though. Finley is probably expendable, but even with Van Exel there to step into the starter's role, I'd still take Nash to run the team.

[Poollit]

I don't know...Fast breaks will be there as u say, but not any better...as they are losing two KEY components of the team only for one in KG---who cannot shoot the three nearly as good as Finley, and Nash...we all know that one. So now VanExel and Dirk are the only ones launching threes up, thats -2 shooters. whereas having Nash and Finley put a very solid pg, and two 35% and up three pt. shooters alongside Nowitzki and Vanexel. Reb. -Finley did a god job, and if they get Zo he can help out a hwole lot there to. Fast breaks, I think its better wit Nash and finley, why?
becasue thats two more poeple to worry bout, and also they could stop and pull the long J.
:I think getting KG for two all-star status players is a waste. Why? because KG like Kobe and T-mac can help, but can't win, and definately isn't worth two players as good as Finley and nash. KG is good no doubt, but really, how can help the Mavs better than Finley and nash do? I think he would hurt them.

[slam37]

Kevin Garnett has single-handindly led the T-Wolves to the playoffs for a good 5 seasons now... In fact, their record is hardly much worse than Dallas's. The Mavericks continue to prove what teams like Portland have done for year: stacked talent doesn't win championships. Clearly, Shaq and Kobe led the Lakers to several titles. Jordan and Pippen the Bulls. Magic and Kareem the other Lakers. Bird and McHale the Celtics (Worthy and Parish were great contributors, but never had any true superstar seasons. Almost like a Van Exel or Mourning could be...). In fact, the Pistons were even led by a combo of Thomas and Dumars. With the exception of The 2 Spurs and 2 Rockets championships, which were done single-handidly for the most part, every other championship team over the past 25 or so years has been led by TWO superstars (Erving and Malone even for the 83 76ers).

Yes, Finley and Nash's stats do come out better if you add them together and compare them to Kevin Garnett's. That doesn't matter. Kevin Garnett is a superstar, and has something more than stats. He's a leader, and he has proven that he is more effective than a combo of Nash and Finley ever has been... No matter how you go about it, 2 imitations, as good as they may be, can never equal one true superstar. And the Mavericks already have one. Only one other team in the league has 2 superstars, and they go by the names of Shaw and Kobe. And if the Mavericks had KG/Dirk, they'd have a much better supporting cast than the Lakers did over their title runs.

It really boils down to what has worked in the NBA in almost all of history. 2 All-NBA calibre players with a nice supporting cast has been the most succesful way to win it all in the history of the NBA. There is no reason it wouldn't work for Dallas if they built the right supporting cast for Dirk and KG (name one team besides and upgrades Lakers who could stop them... Maybe the Spurs, who by the way are hoping to add a 2nd superstar...)!

[Poollit]

Yes, Finley and Nash's stats do come out better if you add them together and compare them to Kevin Garnett's. That doesn't matter. Kevin Garnett is a superstar, and has something more than stats. He's a leader, and he has proven that he is more effective than a combo of Nash and Finley ever has been... No matter how you go about it, 2 imitations, as good as they may be, can never equal one true superstar.

actaully, I haven't seen KG do anything very BIG either. Who knows, maybe Finley and Nash will lead the wolves out of the playoffs. they are TWO capable allstar caliber players and with Wally and Troy to support them i think they could go far. About KG:
What can he do that Finley and Nahs didn't? get them booted out? he improves nothing on offense, and he won't make their D truely ANY better, but no matter, I guess it's not happening so...

Let's drop, but if u have mroe to say this might be a fun topic to just discuss for fun.

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

I love this topic! Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Anyways, I agree with Andrew (as usual )... I would be a bit hesistant in trading Nash, because when you watch the Mavs last season & postseason, you see that Nash is the only one who can create & make everyone else better.

Van Exel can't do that as well as Nash, he use to; but now Van Exel is just a pure & dealy scorer and 3point shooter!

Besides, adding KG means, it takes away their 3point shooting. KG can hit 3's, but now the mavs will only really have 2 "consistant & deadly" 3point weapons, rather than 4. (I excluded Raef Lafrentz because he doesn't take much, and make much 3's anymore)

But I'd prefer if the Mavs got Karl Malone. Then the line-up would be:

La Frentz
Malone
Nowitzki
Finley
Nash....

Van Exel
Najera
Bradley
Bell / Griffin / Willams

[Poollit]

Besides, adding KG means, it takes away their 3point shooting. KG can hit 3's, but now the mavs will only really have 2 "consistant & deadly" 3point weapons, rather than 4. (I excluded Raef Lafrentz because he doesn't take much, and make much 3's anymore)

c, i knew someone would finally jump in and agree with me

MAKAVeli do u have anything to say on this, besides what's already said

[slam37]

All of you fail to address the point that a great inside presence is the most coveted and valued offensive and defensive asset in the entire league.

What has Garnett done? Well, let me see, he is on par with Tim Duncan, the league's MVP... He leads the league in double double's. Pretty much 25 points and 12 boards a night at bout 50% from the floor. He was 2nd in DPOY the year voting. He improves nothing defensivley? Are you nuts? The Mavericks are one of the WORST defensive, if not the worst defensince team in the league. If you don't think Garnett would improve it, you are ignoring logic.

You have yet to counter any argument other than saying you really don't like the trade. the Mavericks obviously aren't winning with the team they have. Kevin Garnett is an inside presence, arguably the best in the league (him, Shaq, Duncan...)... It's what the Mavericks need. Yes, they'd be giving up 3 point shooting. 3 point shooting doesn't win championships, great inside players do.

[Hash]

3 point shooting doesn't win championships, great inside players do.

That's completely true! Threes don't go everygame with good % in!

KG is developed to one of the best big man in the league, and compared with Shaq, he is far more quicker, not stronger, and he can shoot better . I still think that he should have been the MVP of the season, Duncan was good in PO-s, but KG was better in the season!

[Andrew]

You have yet to counter any argument other than saying you really don't like the trade.

Well, I can counter by saying that the proposed trade:

Dallas trades Steve Nash and Michael Finely to the Timberwolves straight up for Kevin Garnett.

Does not work under the salary cap. Dallas would have to throw in a couple more players, such as Van Exel. That would leave the Mavericks with no one to get the big men the ball. A great inside presence is coveted, but you need to get them the ball, and if you're trading away Nash and Van Exel, you're left with Avery Johnson - if he doesn't retire.

[Poollit]

Pretty much 25 points and 12 boards a night at bout 50% from the floor

so the boards go down by like 3/4, because Dirk will have snag a few, and if Zo goes that'll not be neccessary. Big Man wise, 1.5 some blocks isn't evry big man like is it? I'd say small forwards numbers.
so now, u have to stick him at that SF position, because Dirk and Lafraentz, or u can put him at PF and Dirk at SF, how unlikely though, cause that would make the perimeter D too weak and too many penetrations. And I'd say 1.5 blocks isn't gonna do much.
The Mavs have interior D to the best they will get it, even with KG. They need guys like Finley and Nash to score and lead. finley can also put good perimeter D. Okay so now u say, then put KG at the perimeter, than what about the interior? I'm still seeing it the way it was, decent-good perimeter D, and bad D.L. D. LOL, and just 15 less points.
So let's say Andrew that the cap works out and ONLY Finley and Nash go. Van Exel as no beter D than Nash did. Griffin at D for Finley or whoever, I doubt it wil make any impact. Najera and Finley V.S. KG and another backup SG (doubt Najera will play if KG is there). Now:
Najera can play the SF spot, and hustles like noother, he is quick eneough to stop other SF so he is okay. Finley plays the SG, and is good enough to stop SG. KG plays SF, and Najera SG? Najera too slow to stop other SG, and same with KG (or it's just a waste for him to guard someone on the perimeter when he's ur INSIDE PRESENCE RIGHT?)
LOL 1.5 blocks should say it all though.

[slam37]

Alright, now you are just starting to pull stuff out of your ass. You are getting ridiculous. You are saying that if KG went to the Mavericks he'd go from 12 boards to 3 (you act like whenever players go to a different team their rebounding numbers go down for no reason! lol! )? If you truly believe that, I feel only pity for you.

Is defense measured only by blocks? What about steals? what about how many points KG allows... Because once again, HE WAS SECOND IN DPOY VOTING. Yes, their interior defense would get better, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

You make it sound as if Dirk is a good PF defender (yes, Garnett would play PF. If you don't think so, perhaps you should seek help)... He IS NOT. OK, so move him to SF. You say that it would allow too many penetrations? lol, life Najera and Griffin are great defenders, right? I think not. Dirk has played SF before, and proven he is legite. Besides, his offensive skills are better suited for a SF anyways, in which case his size would also only add to his advantage every single night.

And by the way, yes, KG is AN INSIDE PRESENCE, but is also very quick and has proven he can also play perimeter defense. So once again, you're making no sense.

Finley and Nash a leader? Explain, please. Kevin Garnett is the Timberwolves leader. They look to him each and every game. He takes responsibility, as a leader should. Do the Mavericks look to Finley and Nash? And despite the fact you're simply stating ONLY your personal opinions, with no backing, on Nash and Finley, you fail to address that Dirk is the best player on the Mavericks.

So let us say the Mavericks are smart and the trade does happen (Andrew, you act as if the Mavs would throw in Van Exel when they could throw in Shawn Bradley, even Avery Johnson...). Najera can't play shooting guard because he is too slow? I'm not sure whether that is true or not, but in your previous sentance you mentioned how he "hustles like noother..." So either way you destroy your own argument. And if neither Najera or Griffin worked at the SG, you could always trade for one, using even one or both of those 2 players... And let's forgot that the Bulls had Luc Longley as a starting C, the Lakers Samaki Walker at PF, etc... You don't need an all-star at every position to win. In fact, it has never worked, and certainly isn't with the Mavericks.

[slam37]

Oh, and just to set the record straight, in their PRIMES, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Elvin Hayes, Elgin Baylor, Kevin McHale, Shawn Kemp and modernly Elton Brand and Chris Webber just to name a FEW have NEVER averaged 1.5 blocks a game. All of them poor inside players, right? No, I'm afraid that should say it all

[Colin]

Najera can't play shooting guard because he is too slow? I'm not sure whether that is true or not, but in your previous sentance you mentioned how he "hustles like noother..." So either way you destroy your own argument.

That makes no sense. Just because a player hustles doesn't mean that he's slow. And just because he's fast doesn't mean he doesn't hustle. I've had a few slower players that hustle a lot on my personnal teams, so it's definitley not unheard of. Comprehend what you read before you reply.

[wonkajane]

elton brand HAS averaged more than 1.5 blocks a game...he had almost 3 during last season...and whoever said najera and griffin can't defend is a joke...they are excellent defenders, najera dives for balls too, he is relentless. najera and griffin are THERE for their defense so i don't know what you were talking about slam guy

("liKe Najera and Griffin are great defenders")

whatever mavs are cool as they are, the need all the players with mullets they can get, so keep nash!

[slam37]

Najera can play the SF spot, and hustles like noother, he is quick eneough to stop other SF so he is okay.

Excuse me? I think perhaps you are the one who needs to comprehend what you read before you respond... He said that he hustles, and quite obviously used it in referance to him being fast. Maybe you have a mental deficiency and didn't comprehend that? I think you need to post on topic and make some sense.

[Colin]

Najera can play the SF spot, and hustles like noother, he is quick eneough to stop other SF so he is okay.

Excuse me? I think perhaps you are the one who needs to comprehend what you read before you respond... He said that he hustles, and quite obviously used it in referance to him being fast. Maybe you have a mental deficiency and didn't comprehend that? I think you need to post on topic and make some sense.

What he means is what is true about Najera, Najera is not very fast, but he hustles (which doesn't mean being fast, and that's obviously not what he meant if he stated something about his quickness in the same sentence after a comma) and is able to adequately stay with faster sf's.

Hustle means (according to dictionary.com) To gain by energetic effort, among others at this site.

[Andrew]

(Andrew, you act as if the Mavs would throw in Van Exel when they could throw in Shawn Bradley, even Avery Johnson...)

Finley, Nash and Bradley does not work under the cap, so Bradley can't be included in the deal.

Finley, Nash and Johnson would work. Minnesota might be willing to take on Johnson since his deal runs out at the end of next season.

I'm just not convinced Dallas would trade away three players (especially two of their Big 3) just to land KG, when they could make a run at Malone or Mourning without having to sacrifice any of their best players.

[MaD_hAND1e]

so the boards go down by like 3/4, because Dirk will have snag a few, and if Zo goes that'll not be neccessary. Big Man wise, 1.5 some blocks isn't evry big man like is it?

u gotta take into account the rebounds the other team gets dude~
i mean think abt it... if u had shaq, duncan, garnett, yao and nowitzki vs nash, kidd, b.davis, francis and payton..... do u think the the big man side would only get 4 rebounds each? ofcourse not, they would snag the rebounds that the other team would have gotten

Garnett, Nowitzki, Van Exel, is a good team already, they would just need some complimentary players to play their roles and it would be a championship for Dallas

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

How could I have forgotten about inside presence? Someone mentioned that earlier up in the post, and they're right! But the Dallas Mavericks whole offensive has nothing to do with posting up or inside presence. Most of the times they post up is when they have miss-mathces with smaller guys!

Besides, Minnesota wouldn't take anyone from the Mavs other than Dirk Nowitzki, because they already have a whole bunch guards (Sam Cassell, Troy Hudson, Terrell Brandon, Wally Szczerbiak etc.) And losing KG takes away the T-Wolves inside presence... and why should a team change their whole stlye of play just for one guy?

[slam37]

[/quote]How could I have forgotten about inside presence? Someone mentioned that earlier up in the post, and they're right! But the Dallas Mavericks whole offensive has nothing to do with posting up or inside presence. Most of the times they post up is when they have miss-mathces with smaller guys!

Besides, Minnesota wouldn't take anyone from the Mavs other than Dirk Nowitzki, because they already have a whole bunch guards (Sam Cassell, Troy Hudson, Terrell Brandon, Wally Szczerbiak etc.) And losing KG takes away the T-Wolves inside presence... and why should a team change their whole stlye of play just for one guy?[/quote]

Well Makaveli, that's just the point I've been trying to make! I agree, the Mavericks offense has nothing to do with inside presence. I believe that's a problem. Yes, the Mavericks have a good team. But if it wants to be great, they need inside presence. Would you disagree?

Why should a team change their entire style of play for one guy? The Bulls did it when they drafted Jordan... The Celtics Larry Bird. The Lakers once traded for a guy named Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The Kings traded Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber. It's simply adapting to the current state of the NBA, and doing what it is that it takes to win!

The T-Wolves would do this trade because Garnett seems poised to leave the T-Wolves after this year via free-agency, and Finley and Nash would give them good players in return. Wally doesn't seem likely to return either.

Perhaps the Mavs would be hesitant to do this trade, and it is understandable why. But even if they signed Malone and/or Mourning, I still don't think they would be in serious contention. Neither could take on Duncan or Shaq, and the Kings still are a better team. Getting Garnett would give them that same calibre player as Shaq or Duncan, and chances are they'd resign Garnett to a big contract, as they are willing to pay. This would secure a very good team for a good 10 years with Dirk and KG running the show, and ensure a versatile team as well.

[Poollit]

Alright, now you are just starting to pull stuff out of your ass. You are getting ridiculous. You are saying that if KG went to the Mavericks he'd go from 12 boards to 3 (you act like whenever players go to a different team their rebounding numbers go down for no reason! lol! )? If you truly believe that, I feel only pity for you.

Is defense measured only by blocks? What about steals? what about how many points KG allows... Because once again, HE WAS SECOND IN DPOY VOTING. Yes, their interior defense would get better, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

You make it sound as if Dirk is a good PF defender (yes, Garnett would play PF. If you don't think so, perhaps you should seek help)... He IS NOT. OK, so move him to SF. You say that it would allow too many penetrations? lol, life Najera and Griffin are great defenders, right? I think not. Dirk has played SF before, and proven he is legite. Besides, his offensive skills are better suited for a SF anyways, in which case his size would also only add to his advantage every single night.

And by the way, yes, KG is AN INSIDE PRESENCE, but is also very quick and has proven he can also play perimeter defense. So once again, you're making no sense.

Finley and Nash a leader? Explain, please. Kevin Garnett is the Timberwolves leader. They look to him each and every game. He takes responsibility, as a leader should. Do the Mavericks look to Finley and Nash? And despite the fact you're simply stating ONLY your personal opinions, with no backing, on Nash and Finley, you fail to address that Dirk is the best player on the Mavericks.

So let us say the Mavericks are smart and the trade does happen (Andrew, you act as if the Mavs would throw in Van Exel when they could throw in Shawn Bradley, even Avery Johnson...). Najera can't play shooting guard because he is too slow? I'm not sure whether that is true or not, but in your previous sentance you mentioned how he "hustles like noother..." So either way you destroy your own argument. And if neither Najera or Griffin worked at the SG, you could always trade for one, using even one or both of those 2 players... And let's forgot that the Bulls had Luc Longley as a starting C, the Lakers Samaki Walker at PF, etc... You don't need an all-star at every position to win. In fact, it has never worked, and certainly isn't with the Mavericks.

lol
I'm ridiculous that whole thing is quite pitiful actaully...u now go to insulting me, and lol.
When did i say his reb. would go to 3? I said would go down by maybe three

so the boards go down by like 3/4, because Dirk will have snag a few, and if Zo goes that'll not be neccessary

Zo if he goes, not many reb. will be needed to be grabbed by KG.
LOL, read next time.
what about steals? he 1.3, not good, not bad, same with his blocks, not good not bad. LOL I never said Dirk had good D, actually i thought i rather said it was poor. Notice how i say if u move KG to perimeter how the interior D will be too soft? implying Dirk downlow is bad, same with him up top.
LOL and Hold on! I'm saying he has good D? u say he has proven himself on D, LOL YOU make sense.

Dirk has played SF before, and proven he is legite

laegite for what? to allow 100+ points?

And by the way, yes, KG is AN INSIDE PRESENCE, but is also very quick and has proven he can also play perimeter defense. So once again, you're making no sense.

so what will they do then?
Put KG at perimeter and what about weak side penetrations and post entry passes, then What?

Finley and Nash a leader? Explain, please. Kevin Garnett is the Timberwolves leader. They look to him each and every game. He takes responsibility, as a leader should. Do the Mavericks look to Finley and Nash? And despite the fact you're simply stating ONLY your personal opinions, with no backing, on Nash and Finley, you fail to address that Dirk is the best player on the Mavericks.

yes Dirk is the best PLAYER, but Nash is their BEST Floor general.

Yes, their interior defense would get better, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

LOL it wouldn't improve at all by a whole much, maybe enough to say it has improved like 4 points allowed in the paint, but lol, they wouldn't become a GREAT Defensive team because of one player. They need it on the outside and the inside, and KG will be the only to play good D, no one else. now what? KG stops penetration on my side of the court, and then what about the other side? KG D.L. what can he do with a 6'11 220 frame against Big men? What will he do about gaurds just relentlessly getting into the paint and dishing? can u cover them all, ALL becasue he was SECOND in voting for DPOY, lol!!
is that good enough, I've been backing up the whole time i thnk, you've just been saying things out of "your ass" and insulting me with things out of "your ass"
Please read carefully next time and try to be rgiht about my posts.

[Colin]

When did i say his reb. would go to 3? I said would go down by maybe three

You quoted what you said right after that...

so the boards go down by like 3/4, because Dirk will have snag a few, and if Zo goes that'll not be neccessary

Incase you didn't know 3/4 of 12 is 9, if you take 9 away from 12 you're left with 3, this is when you said it.

Now for my insight on this mess. I do not believe this trade would be a good trade, giving up an all-star and a player who should/ve been an all-star for the all-star MVP doesn't add up, especially when you're left with very little backcourt depth. This would be very bad for the T-wolves, because now that they've traded Joe Smith, they're left with Rasho, Ervin, Marc (Mark???) Jackson and that Woods guy. That's a bunch of players, who minus Rasho who is a good back up type player, are decent third string power forwards and centers. They are in the Western confererence and would get absolutley demolished in the paint by every playoff team, even some non-playoff teams like the Clippers (Brand) and the Grizzlies (Gasol.) Now you look at their guard situation. You've got an unhappy Troy Hudson and Sam Cassell, they're gonna be pissed and your chemistry is completely shot. And that's if Brandon and Strickland don't resign! Then if Svery Johnson gets thrown in it's terrible. They would now have at least 4 point guards, and not enough big men, plus Szrerbiak (yeh it's spelt wrong) will continue to have to play at the SF where he doesn't really belong. Unless Finley plays there, but he doesn't really belong there either.
And now from the Mavs perspective. Why trade away two of the fan favourites, would they be trying to pull a George Shinn? Have the leagues seconds most dedicated and energetic fans (behind Sac-town) against you isn't goingt o help you at all. Now they would be left with starting Van Exel (not a bad thing, but worse than Nash, no I'm not saying that because I'm Canadian, speaking of which it's Canada Day) and someone like Raja Bell, or Taruq Abdul-Wahad. This would give them a huge weakness at, arguably, the most talented position in the league on average. Again we go to see what kinds of players they'd be having to guard, Kobe, Bonzi, Richardson, Allen and Q and Corey on the Clips. It's the same situation as Minny, but flipped. This means that the two teams that would be trading would be overstocking one area on the court, while leaving dangerous holes in the other. This just weakens both teams for areas of strength in the West.

[Poollit]

Incase you didn't know 3/4 of 12 is 9, if you take 9 away from 12 you're left with 3, this is when you said it.

lol if you guys are that ridiculous enough to think iwould think KG would only average 3 rebounds per game, then i guess your the ones needing help for thinking that lol. But I can see how u thought that slash was a divide sign, sorry, but I thought whoever would be bright enough to imply I mean 3 or 4, next time I'll remember that