KG overrated according to Scottie pippen

[MetalHead]

Can someone add a poll option: Who gives a shit? These days these hermit-old players have nothing else to do but gamble, drink, play golf and talk about the "good old days".

[Andrew]

Scottie Pippen has been crying about every little thing since he left the bulls. Calling KG overrated is just insane. Every year my respect level for Pippen decreases. Scottie is the one that was supposed to take the Blazers to the promise land but couldn't handle it. Isn't he calling the kettle black here?

But in all fairness, do you lose respect for former greats like Chamberlain and Robertson for their constant bleating about the following generations?

I don't know what you mean about Pippen being the player to carry the Blazers, since he was already on the downturn of his career, accelerated by the back injury he suffered in 1998. Portland's troubles in the earlier part of this decade extended beyond anything Pippen did or did not do.

[air gordon]

HA! An ex-player, a former all star/future hall of famer, steps out and criticizes some of the league's best players! What a fresh change. Seldom do we see former players turned analysts, especially a player of Scottie's caliber, do that. Pippen has always had his opinions about certain players in the league- I'm glad that he's not shy in letting people know about them.

and this isn't the first time Pippen has called out players before. If anyone has read his blog on nba.com you know what i'm talking about. some of you need to read some of his stuff over there. especially the article on who he thought should be defensive player of the year. great stuff

When espn's 'expert' panel of Anthony, legler, or Tolbert give their thoughts about certain playerss, it doesn't mean squat since they were scrubs in the NBA.

there's more credility when a player who has won 6 championships, won 2 Olympic Gold medals, been an All nba team, all defensive team member countless amount of times, etc. says what's on his mind

What would any of those other panel guys know about MVP's, nba titles, etc? none of those guys have ever on a nba championship team, in the race for the MVP, etc.

and Nick, exactly what was Pippen doing to make you lose more for him in his last 2 years in the NBA?

[dada]

I wasnt expecting greatness from Pippen in Portland either.

I always lose respect for former greats who take shots at the generations after them. To me, it just seems to be more jealousy than honest observation/analysis when they see these newer guys doing well. Just commend these guys for what they are doing and let that be that. I'm not saying that current players dont have an advantage cuz of changes or advancements in the game etc. etc., but thats the case for every generation. Guys get bigger, stronger, and faster but that doesnt mean they shouldnt get credit for what they do.

[J@3]

I don't really see how a guys level of winning or basketballing ability makes his opinion any more valid than any other NBA player. I mean Bill Walton was a great player but people ridicule him everytime he speaks.

[Riot]

The MVP type numbers for me would be 24 pts, 14 rbs, 5 assts, 1.5 sts, 1.5 blocks and 54% shooting. Also add that with a better team record. Those kinda numbers are well in his range.

So Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Tmac, Shaq, etc are not MVP candidates?

[Nick]

But in all fairness, do you lose respect for former greats like Chamberlain and Robertson for their constant bleating about the following generations?

Yeah. Sucks to see.

I don't know what you mean about Pippen being the player to carry the Blazers, since he was already on the downturn of his career, accelerated by the back injury he suffered in 1998. Portland's troubles in the earlier part of this decade extended beyond anything Pippen did or did not do.

Well Pippen was gettin a hell of a lot of money and the blazers were heavy favourites. Pippen even missed key playoff games due to "headaches".

[Andrew]

I don't really see how a guys level of winning or basketballing ability makes his opinion any more valid than any other NBA player. I mean Bill Walton was a great player but people ridicule him everytime he speaks.

I'd say it doesn't automatically make an opinion more valid or insightful. But Bill Walton does have a tendency to throw out the most unusual/exaggerated assertions, which these days is even more humourous because there's a couple of other announcers he's sometimes paired with on ESPN who dare to question what he says and ask him to elaborate, and he gets quite miffed. Also, his catchphrases are probably what most people find amusing.

[dada]

The MVP type numbers for me would be 24 pts, 14 rbs, 5 assts, 1.5 sts, 1.5 blocks and 54% shooting. Also add that with a better team record. Those kinda numbers are well in his range.

So Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Tmac, Shaq, etc are not MVP candidates?

Well those numbers I stated would regard KG. Of course there will always be many candidates during the course of the season and of course there stats will vary, but if he was putting up those numbers and his team was 20+ games over .500 then I see no reason he wouldnt be right up there at the top .

[Laxation]

the poll is just fucking ridiculous, and who cares what pippen thinks anyway?

[b]Dude, get over it. It's NBA Talk for a reason.

im saying the pole is stupid because it has two options, he is overrated or best player in the league. its possible for him to not be overrated without being the best in the league

I think you might have scared away another innocent member.

we can only hope

[Andrew]

Well Pippen was gettin a hell of a lot of money and the blazers were heavy favourites. Pippen even missed key playoff games due to "headaches".

The only games I recall him missing with migraines were against Detroit back in the Bad Boy days, and some other fellow was considered the leader of the Bulls back then. But if you want to bring up suspect leadership, Oscar Robertson had fine stats but his Royals missed the playoffs four times during his prime and some fans consider him to be the greatest of all-time.

[air gordon]

I don't really see how a guys level of winning or basketballing ability makes his opinion any more valid than any other NBA player. I mean Bill Walton was a great player but people ridicule him everytime he speaks.

first off Walton is a dead head idiot. he just says shit to says shit in the first place.

i don't know what your standards are but for me, when i hear someone that has played and won at the nba's highest level give his 'analysis' about a certain player needing to this better/more in order for his team to win, it has a lot of credibility then some other guys who haven't done the same

who's opinion is more valid regarding who should be the defensive player of the year- a player who some regard as the best defensive non center ever or some loudmouth trying to get some ratings?

NIck- if you're going to bash Pippen for having migraines early on his career then you should do the same to Shaq who got swept in multiple playoff series before he finally won a ring

[Riot]

The MVP type numbers for me would be 24 pts, 14 rbs, 5 assts, 1.5 sts, 1.5 blocks and 54% shooting. Also add that with a better team record. Those kinda numbers are well in his range.

So Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Tmac, Shaq, etc are not MVP candidates?

Well those numbers I stated would regard KG. Of course there will always be many candidates during the course of the season and of course there stats will vary, but if he was putting up those numbers and his team was 20+ games over .500 then I see no reason he wouldnt be right up there at the top .

KG didn't quite have those numbers when he won it in 03-04.

[twolvesguy]

Haha. I read this after returning from a Wolves game in which KG scored 37 points. (23 straight double-doubles aren't too bad either)

[J@3]

i don't know what your standards are but for me, when i hear someone that has played and won at the nba's highest level give his 'analysis' about a certain player needing to this better/more in order for his team to win, it has a lot of credibility then some other guys who haven't done the same

I'd say it depends on that person's ability to judge other players. Like I said, some people have their own personal bias from prior experience with a player or whatever. That being said, being a great player doesn't necessarily mean you're good at picking out other great players. MJ and Kwame for instance. I'd trust Pippen's judgement on defensive players sure, maybe even secondary role players but I won't take his word as gospel just because he managed to find a way to accomodate MJ for some championships.

[dada]

The MVP type numbers for me would be 24 pts, 14 rbs, 5 assts, 1.5 sts, 1.5 blocks and 54% shooting. Also add that with a better team record. Those kinda numbers are well in his range.

So Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Tmac, Shaq, etc are not MVP candidates?

Well those numbers I stated would regard KG. Of course there will always be many candidates during the course of the season and of course there stats will vary, but if he was putting up those numbers and his team was 20+ games over .500 then I see no reason he wouldnt be right up there at the top .

KG didn't quite have those numbers when he won it in 03-04.

Hmmm now that I look they were similar if not better (excluding fg%). He was putting up 24.2 pts, 13.9 rbs, 5 assts, 1.5 stls, 2.2 blks and 49% shooting.

Let me upgrade my standard for him then:
25.5 pts, 15 rbs, 6 assts, 1.5 stls, 2.5blks and the same 54% shooting.

[Fewrookies-From2kW/Love]

If you want KG to win a ring by himself... He would be overrated. other than that, I don't think he is. Didn't hear wat Scottie said. Can someone tell me why he thinks Kev is overrated?

I was gonna open up a can of whup ass on his fool, Laxation, before I found out that he is a retard and can't read. I'll take it easy on him.

Scottie basically said that he can't win by carrying the team by himself, which sum up option number 1, "yes, looooooser." Which is the case for the most part. KG had a hard time getting out of the first round for a while. And only had one successful season with Spre and Cassel.

Everyone who support KG would call him the best all around player in the league, who plays defense, grab boards, score points, set up his teammates, and have guard-like handles, which sum up option number 2, "no, he is the best all around player."

As for me, I don't think anyone player should have the load all by himself for making a team win. One player don't win you games. Kobe is agueable the best in the league, but the lakers can't even secure a playoff spot yet. Everyone call Yao the most dominant player after the all-star break, but the rockets lost like 4 straight games. T-mac a few years back with the magics had a 19 game losing streak. If Scottie want to get on KG for that, they are so many others he miss out.

Anyways, Scotties' opinions about the NBA usaully are always 90% bullshit. Remember how he said the Sonics will go to the finals?

[dada]

At first I was like "Why is he gonna open up a can of 'whup ass' on Sit? Why is he telling that to Laxation (who has been bashing him)?"

I guess I am the one who cant read. lol

[Laxation]

since he is telling me i cant read (at least i think so... its so bloody incoherent i dont know if he himself can decipher it), i wont bother to look at the rest of his post

[air gordon]

i don't know what your standards are but for me, when i hear someone that has played and won at the nba's highest level give his 'analysis' about a certain player needing to this better/more in order for his team to win, it has a lot of credibility then some other guys who haven't done the same

I'd say it depends on that person's ability to judge other players. Like I said, some people have their own personal bias from prior experience with a player or whatever. That being said, being a great player doesn't necessarily mean you're good at picking out other great players. MJ and Kwame for instance. I'd trust Pippen's judgement on defensive players sure, maybe even secondary role players but I won't take his word as gospel just because he managed to find a way to accomodate MJ for some championships.

what exactly is "it"? this post sounds like you're talking about GM'ing ability, (correct if i'm wrong), we're discussing the validity of NBA 'expert' anaysts based on actual nba experience

of course no one should not take all of Pippen's thoughts & opinions as gospel. but considering all the achievements & experience on his resume and the numerous amount of great players he has played with & against, his opinions do have credibility/validity. And that's probably why he was hired by ABC. certainly he didn't make it there on his good looks or for being well spoken

and MJ didn't start winning any championships until Scottie hit his prime

[dada]

How much value would you place on Dennis Rodman's views?

[J@3]

what exactly is "it"? this post sounds like you're talking about GM'ing ability, (correct if i'm wrong), we're discussing the validity of NBA 'expert' anaysts based on actual nba experience

"It" would be refering to the amount of credibility I give to players opinions. And yes I am aware of what the topic is

of course no one should not take all of Pippen's thoughts & opinions as gospel. but considering all the achievements & experience on his resume and the numerous amount of great players he has played with & against, his opinions do have credibility/validity. And that's probably why he was hired by ABC. certainly he didn't make it there on his good looks or for being well spoken

When espn's 'expert' panel of Anthony, legler, or Tolbert give their thoughts about certain playerss, it doesn't mean squat since they were scrubs in the NBA.

You listed Greg Anthony as one of "those" guys (funnily enough he played with Pippen) who also played with a number of great players and had years of experience in the play-offs. Sure he wasn't the star Pippen was, but why would his opinion be any less valid? Obviously on some matters he wouldn't be as experienced (participating in the Olympics, winning a championship, playing with Jordan etc) but as far as I'm concerned since those specific events aren't being discussed, I don't see why his opinion of Kevin Garnett (for example) should be seen as any less valid or credible than Pippen's.

It's not like watching the Timberwolves requires a gold medal or a few DPOY's. Being a great player doesn't guarantee that you can evaluate a player better than someone who wasn't as good. By this reasoning we should all be going to Jordan for his views on everything and anything that happens in the NBA and ignoring everyone else.

The other guys, the ones who never played but scored jobs as "analysts" I would definitely take the word of a player over them. When it comes to the former players though, I don't really know why a few media voted awards and better statistics would really impact the validity of their opinion any. I do see your point though, I just don't 100% agree.

[Andrew]

How much value would you place on Dennis Rodman's views?

That's not a fair comparison though. After all, Rodman's got a completely different personality to Scottie Pippen, most basketball players and most of the planet. This is a man who once opined people wanted to see him and Michael Jordan walking down a nude beach together. He wouldn't be your typical former player turned analyst.

[magius]

of all the analysts i'd say pip is the one with the best input. greg anthony is an idiot, i don't understand how he got hired, i just don't listen to him; in fact, whenever he says something i just automatically find the opposite of whatever he says and know that i'm 99% more likely to be right believing that instead. i swear to god if greg anthony said all men were men, i'd believe all men were women.

walton and charles are basically there for fun, they know it, we know it.

that said, i don't mind anthony's opinions, just like i don't mind pips opinions. i respect them both for giving honest ones. i don't understand how people get mad at past greats giving honest opinions, i prefer that to some crap pc answer soaked in bullshit overnight.

if all pip implied was kg can't carry a team to the championship as the number one, i very well might agree with him. i'd say of all the players of the past kg most reminds me of pip. now i know kg is more talented offense-individually, but they just remind me of each other. extremely talented mvp-calibre players that excel (or in kg's case, hypothetically excel) as the 'number two' of a duo. by number two, i'm not implying less importance or less value, but just a certain differal (not the extent that pip did, but still). i think its possible for kg to be the 'number two' for all intents and purposes and still be considered the mvp of the two. i don't know if that makes sense, but oh well. something similar to isiah-dumars or magic-kareem or stockalone (not mj-pip or hakeem-drex or shaq-kobe because its obvious that mj, hakeem and shaq were the #1 and the better of the two by a fair margin... i will never see kg being considered the #2 to that degree in which case i would say fuck you you're underrating him).

i think if you think kg can carry a team to the championship as a pure cut #1 like mj, duncan, shaq, and hakeem did then you're possible overrating him (not vastly, but you are). if you think kg can win an mvp or two more before the end of his career while putting up monster -- hell, even legendary stats, but not winning as the #1 (ala malone, barkley, ewing) then you've pretty much got it right smack down.

if kg does win a championship (staying in minny) i wouldn't be surprised if its towards the downturn or end of his career. similar to the admiral. i would be pleasantly surprised if he stays in minny, remains the #1 and wins one in his prime, but to be honest, i just don't see it happening.

[dinocarlo]

As for me, I don't think anyone player should have the load all by himself for making a team win. One player don't win you games. Kobe is agueable the best in the league, but the lakers can't even secure a playoff spot yet. Everyone call Yao the most dominant player after the all-star break, but the rockets lost like 4 straight games. T-mac a few years back with the magics had a 19 game losing streak. If Scottie want to get on KG for that, they are so many others he miss out.

Yeah I don't think KG is overrated. There's just something wrong with the way the wolves play as a team. No one can carry a team by himself to the finals. MJ's bulls played great as a team.

Anyways, Scotties' opinions about the NBA usaully are always 90% bullshit. Remember how he said the Sonics will go to the finals?

The problem with what he said is he predicted too early. Sonics played great in November 2004. They were number 1 in the west right? Then the Suns and Spurs took over...