Belkin a sole owner of Hawks?

[Fenix]

If part-owner Steve Belkin wins this round of what is shaping up to be a long, drawn-out battle, he would become the sole owner of both the Hawks and Thrashers.

If so, that would have major on-court implications, because Belkin would basically go in and fire everybody.

Let's start with the front office. Remember that snub Hawks general manager Billy Knight gave Belkin at a court hearing last summer, refusing to shake his hand or even look up at him? Revenge is a dish best served cold, my friends, and Knight would certainly end up chewing on a plate full of ice cubes.

But it won't just be Knight -- virtually the entire management regime is, by association, affiliated with Knight and the other owners, so most of them can expect to clean out their offices if Belkin wins his bid.

Moreover, if rumors of Belkin's frugality are true (supposedly his real objection to the Johnson trade was that it would involve raising payroll above the bare minimum), it would have serious ramifications for both the Hawks and Thrashers. They'd essentially become the Kansas City Royals of their respective sports, trying to "Moneyball" their way to a quasi-respectable record without the resources of their competitors.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-060309

I hope this is true. Belkin claimed that a JJ sign&trade deal is stupid and everyone blamed him for being a cheap bastard, but I agree with him. Now we all know it definitely was a stupid deal and that Knight and others should be shot instantly. But then again - if he really is a cheap bastard, he would become the sole owner of the Hawks. So who would fuckin' care?

[Andrew]

The Hawks wouldn't be doing much better without that Joe Johnson trade, so I hardly think it was a stupid deal. And if you want an example of a team that has suffered from a penny-pinching owner, one doesn't have to look further than the Clippers. Yes, they have matched offer sheets but so much talent has been through the revolving door it's ridiculous.

[alexboom]

Fact is the Hawks sacrified 2 first round picks to get an overpaid player who has only "fair" stats in one of the worst NBA teams.

They also made a mistake in sending Diaw, a very versatile player who may become productive at a fair price (around the MLE).
Indeed, they even would have better sent Al Harrington, who is a lost player now that he will surely leave the team at the end of the season.

So maybe Belkin is scrooge, but I assume he was right in this story.

[Fenix]

I really don't know what Knight is doing. Drafting Childress, a 6'7 natural SF, who looked too skinny for his skill to succesfully translate to NBA game, over Iguodala, a 6'7 SG who brought much more psychical skills, versatilty and potential to the table. And then drafting Marvin over Paul and signing JJ to that obscure contract... The sole good move by BK is probably drafting Josh Smith, a native of Atlanta who has all the potential in the world to bring people back in the stands. And even he has reportedly a poor work ethic and general attitude. And yes, they brought Salim to help them with that.

Has anyone ever read any of the posts in the Atlanta Hawks section of the RealGM forums? They're even more retarded than Laker fans. They see drafting of Marvin over Paul as a good move, because Paul would actually help them win games and they wouldn't get a top pick in the upcoming draft. People, the best players in this draft are swingmen and the top big man (Aldridge) is probably not even coming out.

[J@3]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Josh Smith's dunk the other day? Better yet, did anyone hear it? I've never heard the microphone thump so hard on a dunk, it was awesome.

The Joe Johnson move isn't looking so bad... sure he's on an inflated contract, but who isn't? Not every team has a guy who can play PG/SG/SF and put up around 21/5/5.

Not taking Paul over Williams is just plain moronic.

[Fenix]

He's putting 20/4/6.5 on a 22, 23 win team. He put 17/5/3.5 on a 60+ win team. Hawks are giving him 10+million$ per and gave Diaw and two picks for him in a sign&trade deal. Let me mention that Suns weren't even remotely that stupid to actually matched that offer sheet/shit. Get my point?

[J@3]

Correction, he put up 17/5/3.5 on a 60+ win team with about a million other offensive options. Actually, when you've got Amare, Marion and Nash all averaging close to, and more than 20ppg I'd say 17 as a 4th option is pretty impressive. His play in the first half of the season for Atlanta wasn't too crash hot, lately he's been great.

To be exact:

23ppg | 9.3apg | 3.4rpg and the Hawks are 4-4 in the last 8... which for them is superb.

Hawks are giving him 10+million$ per and gave Diaw and two picks for him in a sign&trade deal. Let me mention that Suns weren't even remotely that stupid to actually matched that offer sheet/shit. Get my point?

Diaw was doing nothing at Atlanta and would've probably continued to do so. I'm assuming the picks are protected to a point, and with so many young players I can't see them being high lottery picks in 3 or 4 years time. I'm not a fan of giving up that many picks though. The $10+ million is nothing. Virtually anyone who can put up 18ppg + gets that sort of money, the Hawks have cap space aswell so they haven't hung themselves or anything.

Sure Diaw is doing great at Phoenix, and the Suns probably made the right decision to not match the offer, but that doesn't mean the deal hasn't worked out alright for Atlanta. This isn't a team in crisis, they have potential, and if they do well in the draft who knows how much they could improve by next season.

[Fenix]

They just gave all that money (and two draft picks - I won't count Diaw, because - as you already said - he wasn't doing anything in Atlanta) to a player who plays a position they had already covered. Sure, JJ is having some good games lately, but that ddoesn't change the fact that he's getting way, waaaay to big bucks for a team that doesn't bring big bucks to the owners. You don't willingly give first banana money to a obviously second or even third banana player unless you're going bananas. You RESIGN them for big money but only if you have to. Everyone knew Sarver is not going to match the Hawks' offer, because he didn't want to pay luxury tax. And here go the Hawks, bidding against their own shadow and giving everything Colangeloemands. Of course Sarver wanted to prevent the deal before it happened. Who wouldn't?

And if you watch Hawks' games, you'll notice that JJ is playing a lot of point for them and he's more than less just average at it. I wouldn't exactly trust him the PG duties on a championship contender, even if he improves (which he probably will). He's like a poor man's Penny in that manner. Don't you think his numbers will drop if they get someone who's more capable at running the point, let's say someone in the CP3 mold? I mean, what does he do to deserve all that money besides score? He's only a decent defender, he doesn't rebound and he surely won't give you the intangibles needed to deserve to be called a leader. Don't say "what's wrong with him getting 10 million per year, everyone are getting it", because they get all that money because of the sheer stupidity of both owners and GMs. And now someone wants to prevent that and he's instantly called 'cheap'.

Slightly OT: I read another thread from their RealGM section - they're convinced that Josh Smith is All-Star material at the 4 spot. We're talking about 6'8 guy without any resemblance of post game, without freakish length or bulk needed to bang with the big boys. Of course, why would they want Nene and Aldridge as their frontcourt, if they can draft Gay?

[cklitsie]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone see Josh Smith's dunk the other day? Better yet, did anyone hear it? I've never heard the microphone thump so hard on a dunk, it was awesome.

Check the windmill he did in Toronto last season.

[J@3]

They just gave all that money (and two draft picks - I won't count Diaw, because - as you already said - he wasn't doing anything in Atlanta) to a player who plays a position they had already covered.

That's the thing, who do they have at any position that's better than him? Al Harrington's the only one who's remotely close, and they don't play the same position to begin with. Not even taking into account the fact that Johnson can play three positions... for some money and a couple of draft picks, the Hawks got their franchise player. In comparison to your Lakers, Cleveland, Miami's etc he's not much, but for any young building team it's a nice start, even with his ridiculous contract.

And if you watch Hawks' games, you'll notice that JJ is playing a lot of poinhttp://www.nbaliveforums.com/images ... umbsup.gif
Thumbs Upt for them and he's more than less just average at it. I wouldn't exactly trust him the PG duties on a championship contender, even if he improves (which he probably will).

Well yeah, he only plays the point because he has to. If they get a capable PG, he can play elsewhere... not to mention that it also gives them either a very capable bench (Childress, Smith etc) or some nice trade bait.

Don't you think his numbers will drop if they get someone who's more capable at running the point, let's say someone in the CP3 mold? I mean, what does he do to deserve all that money besides score? He's only a decent defender, he doesn't rebound and he surely won't give you the intangibles needed to deserve to be called a leader.

If they could get a Chris Paul quality PG that team wouldn't be far from the play-offs, so of course his numbers would drop. That being said, he's not exactly old, he's what, 24 or 25?... he has alot of improvement in him. Every year it's plain to see he develops further, and interestingly enough his FG% is more or less the same at Atlanta then it was at Phoenix, despite him taking 3 more shots per game. His 3% is obviously down, but that would suggest he's capable of creating his own shot and doesnt' really need Nash spoon feeding him baskets.

Don't say "what's wrong with him getting 10 million per year, everyone are getting it", because they get all that money because of the sheer stupidity of both owners and GMs. And now someone wants to prevent that and he's instantly called 'cheap'.

Teams don't even hesitate giving 7 or 8 million to a guy purely based on his potential, I mean look at Kwame. The reasons for them getting this money is irrelevant (the stupidity of owners/GM's in this case), because the fact is that all of them are doing it.

If one guy comes in and tries to change this, all he's going to do is prevent his team from being successful. The only time a player takes a pay cut these days is if they're ageing and want to play for a contender. A young player with stacks of potential is going to take everything he can get, because that's the environment the league has created. Atlanta aren't going to attract many big name FA's, and if you can get a guy who's potentially an all-star calibre player who actually WANTS to play for your currently horrible team, you've got to take that. Otherwise they end up like the Clippers a few years back, with alot of good players on rookie contracts that leave as soon as they can.

[Fenix]

Clippers' way is far better for my taste. They trade for and resigned solid players, worth of what they were getting and they didn't want to resign ones who wouldn't help them. Darius Miles was too big of a risk and poor personality to keep around and Odom practically begged LA's front office for not to match the Miami's offer. I think the whole rebuilding period in Clipperland began with trading for Brand and giving him a reasonably (big) offer. Sure, it lasted longer that it would be if they were giving big buck to every nice player who came around, but now they got themselves a nice young core which deserves the money they're getting. It's not remotely the same situation in Atlanta.

And Kwame comparison is a bad one. Lakers have enough money to afford this kind of experiments, plus it wont hurt them long term. His contract expires in 2008. It's not like Lakers could do anything smarter with that money till then anyway.

[J@3]

And Kwame comparison is a bad one. Lakers have enough money to afford this kind of experiments, plus it wont hurt them long term. His contract expires in 2008. It's not like Lakers could do anything smarter with that money till then anyway.

Kwame's a below average bench player who offers absolutely nothing but will take up $16 million + in the next 2 seasons. Regardless of whether they have the money, that's not a good return.

Sure, it lasted longer that it would be if they were giving big buck to every nice player who came around, but now they got themselves a nice young core which deserves the money they're getting. It's not remotely the same situation in Atlanta.

Yeah, the Hawks giving 1 player a big contract is "giving big buck to every nice player who came around" I'd take the Hawks core of Johnson, Smith, Childress, Harrington, Pachulia, Stoudamire and Williams over the pre-Brand Clippers any day. I mean hell, this team could not spend another cent on a player, draft well, and be in the play-offs within 2 seasons.

But hey, if you'd rather have a constant stream of losing seasons until you finally manage to rape another team into trading you their best player for a draft pick, then fine.

[Fenix]

I said Clippers started building AFTER Brand came to LA and I would take Kaman, Brand Maggette, Mobley, Sam-I-Am and others (Livingston, Ewing, Ross, Singleton and potentially even Korolev) who were gathered the 'cheap' way over Pachulia (backup C material) and any of the SFs on that bloody Hawks' team.

Kwame's a below average bench player who offers absolutely nothing but will take up $16 million + in the next 2 seasons. Regardless of whether they have the money, that's not a good return.

Lakers didn't know that it would turn this way. They paid for his potential and it's not like they got seriously burned. Like I said, the move doesn't affect them long- or short-term.

[J@3]

I said Clippers started building AFTER Brand came to LA and I would take Kaman, Brand Maggette, Mobley, Sam-I-Am and others (Livingston, Ewing, Ross, Singleton and potentially even Korolev) who were gathered the 'cheap' way over Pachulia (backup C material) and any of the SFs on that bloody Hawks' team.

Just because you said they started building after Brand showed up, doesn't mean they actually did. That team was having to re-build almost every season, all because they couldn't retain any of their players. I mean even after Brand's arrival, it's taken them 5 years to get to a point where they're considered a play-off team. The Hawks could conceivably be at that stage within 2 years. Not to mention the Hawks are ultimately younger, I mean Brand's 27, Mobley's almost 30, Cassell's about 100, Maggette's 26 or 27...

[Matt]

lets not forget that JJ will only get better.

[Fenix]

Just because you said they started building after Brand showed up, doesn't mean they actually did. That team was having to re-build almost every season, all because they couldn't retain any of their players. I mean even after Brand's arrival, it's taken them 5 years to get to a point where they're considered a play-off team. The Hawks could conceivably be at that stage within 2 years. Not to mention the Hawks are ultimately younger, I mean Brand's 27, Mobley's almost 30, Cassell's about 100, Maggette's 26 or 27...

Before they gave Brand and Maggette all that money, they didn't paid shit to anyone, so yeah, we could say that was a clear sign that they started building something. And build they did - a team made of solid veterans (Mobley, Casell), all star talents (Brand and even Maggette), bunch of good role players (Kaman, Ross and others) and one potentially great player in Livingston, a team without any financial problems, with a superb coach and good chemistry. I wouldn't say there's a remotely similar situation in Atlanta. Their only player who's a legit starter at either PF or C is Harrington and he'll most certainly leave the team for nothing in return. Not to mention the fact he's undersized PF with bad D and lack of rebounding skills. And their chemistry isn't exactly something to brag about. Even if they suck for another five seasons, they'll eventually have to give that two draft picks.

[J@3]

You've completely missed the point/comparison. The Clippers couldn't retain their good young players, that's why they didn't "paid shit to anyone". That's exactly what could've happened to Atlanta. What good is having all the potential in the World if you don't have that franchise guy to somewhat build around and give hope to the rest of the club. The Clippers lacked that for a long time, the team was obviously going nowhere, management made some poor decisions and the players split.

The Hawks, unlike those Clippers, have shown signs of improvement and something that resembles a plan. As far as their chemistry goes, please, it's a team full of guys aged between 19-24 that have been losing every second game... for starters there'd be no maturity there, and secondly when teams lose they start looking for people to blame... not to mention their coach isn't exactly a World beater. That being said, once this team starts to win those chemistry problems almost always disappear... they're only a few players away from that happening.

The Clippers got lucky with Elton Brand, he gave them a cornerstone to build around for virtually nothing. The Hawks have had to splash the cash to bring in someone like that, and while Joe Johnson isn't an Elton Brand, it's something to build on. Plus he's only young, who's to say that he won't be in the upper echelon of players within the next two years? This is his first season as "the man", this kind of thing doesn't happen overnight.

In conclusion, I have absolutely no idea why I'm defending the Hawks so much, but I do like the direction they're heading. That being said, if they go out and draft a SF in this upcoming draft I will dig up this thread and rip them apart.

[Fenix]

In conclusion, I have absolutely no idea why I'm defending the Hawks so much, but I do like the direction they're heading. That being said, if they go out and draft a SF in this upcoming draft I will dig up this thread and rip them apart.

Fair enough .

[Andrew]

That being said, if they go out and draft a SF in this upcoming draft I will dig up this thread and rip them apart.

"If"? We might as well go ahead and say "when".

[kinokong]

lol when will gms figure out you can't win with a shitload of guards and sf in this league... all you have to do is look at isiah....

[Matt]

well at least with all those SF's they can pick which ones they want then dump the rest. There will always be takers for talent & youth.

[shadowgrin]

Cassell's about 100

Cassell is 99. Get your facts straight Jae.

[Its_asdf]

The one thing I really thought they did well was acquire Zaza Pachulia. He's a great offensive rebounder and with centres being so rare nowadays, he's really worth the money he's getting.

Slightly off topic, but I have to rant about how much I hate Salim Stoudamire.

Not only did he get suspended for conduct detrimental to the team before, but every shot he takes looks like a bad one... The guy has no concious and just throws the ball in the air as soon as he touches it. I remember when he played Toronto and immediately when he was subbed on he took like 4 shots (3 of them threes) in a span of about less than a minute. He's a disgusting undersized shooting guard that definitely needs to learn a few pointers from his cousin and calm the fuck down.

[Jugs]

Who's Salim's cousin?

[J@3]

Damon I'd assume.