Sources: Francis dealt to Knicks for Penny, Ariza

[Matt]

this variation of the trade is excellent for Orlando. It's a good thing that they didn't have to take on Mo Taylor or J Crawford.

Their next move is (should be) to get rid of Keyon Dooling.

btw, Orlando will waive Penny & sign Bo Outlaw.

[Andrew]

If that's the case, then that's a shame. I would have liked to have seen Penny suit up for the Magic again, if only for nostalgia.

[Malfa]

thats kinda..meh

trevor ariza for steve francis straight up basically

[Doobie]

How come the knicks fans dont like crawford?

If you see Crawford play , then you know why we don't like him . He is a turnover machine , and doesn't perform well down the stretch. Takes plenty of stupid shots , and is not dependable down the strech. Maybe he is good to take "the shot" ( lucky 3 or something ) but is not a good playmaker when the clock is running down. Thats why Knicks fans hate Jamal...

[air2k5]

How come the knicks fans dont like crawford?

If you see Crawford play , then you know why we don't like him . He is a turnover machine , and doesn't perform well down the stretch. Takes plenty of stupid shots , and is not dependable down the strech. Maybe he is good to take "the shot" ( lucky 3 or something ) but is not a good playmaker when the clock is running down. Thats why Knicks fans hate Jamal...

QFT
Knicks Gm now needs to get fired. They were already over salary cap, getting Steve will fuck em up. Marbury, Crawford and Fransis are all "Kobe's", Marbury might assist, but still. Knicks, only dug themselfes a deeper hole.

[Jeffx]

How come the knicks fans dont like crawford?

If you see Crawford play , then you know why we don't like him . He is a turnover machine , and doesn't perform well down the stretch. Takes plenty of stupid shots , and is not dependable down the strech. Maybe he is good to take "the shot" ( lucky 3 or something ) but is not a good playmaker when the clock is running down. Thats why Knicks fans hate Jamal...

Yep....he's an athlete playing basketball. He has no bball I.Q. whatsoever.


You'd never think Joe Dumars & Isiah Thomas played together, considering how they built their respective teams. Dumars built an old skool basketball team - they play 'D', rebound and are smart offensively. Zeke inherited a mess and made it worse. Did he forget how his Bad Boy Pistons won those titles?

[1CenT]

thats kinda..meh

trevor ariza for steve francis straight up basically

you obviously don't understand penny's contract is prob worth more than steve francis..

[Owen]

magic

knicks

[The X]

don't worry ceekay, Knicks do that to you....I loved a young forward by the name of John Wallace....with a bit of potential, he was dealt to Toronto

[Amphatoast]

priceless expression on larry brown face

[cklitsie]

Ariza is an FA after this season right? So the Knicks should/could/won't sign him back..

[Andrew]

priceless expression on larry brown face

Man, talk about being excited about the deal. He's practically jumping for joy.

[Matthew]

Hahah, who? Larry Brown or Stevie?

On a serious note though, I dont mind getting Francis, especially when you look at who the knicks gave up. Penny hadnt played all year, and Ariza was getting no minutes.

Now lets look at what Francis can actually bring to the Knicks. He is an athletic scorer, he is actually skilled and if Marbury can co exist with Nate Robinson without being dominated defensively, surely he will be able to do fine with Francis. Larry Brown has always been a great teacher with guards. From Mark Jackson to Iverson to Billups to Eric Snow. I'm not saying it's a sure thing that Francis and Marbury will be a great duo, but it has to be better than what they had.

Also, I touched on Nate Robinson. Sure he's exciting, but right now he just isnt good. Francis (with Rose) are players you can't leave to help on defense. That will help Marbury, and with Curry and Frye, it isnt a bad starting five. Andrew, release a new roster update please .

Heres how I project the future Knick rotations:
C: Curry
PF: Frye
SF: Rose
SG: Francis
PG: Marbury

The second unit should be David Lee, Taylor, Richardson, Crawford, Robinson.

It's a bit small, and this team isnt going anywhere this season. But they dont own their own draft pick this season, so why not try to improve things by trades? It's better to get Rose and Francis for expiring contracts than let those deals expire, becuase they would have been over the cap anyway.

[Jugs]

I actually love the trade, Ariza is WAY over-rated in my opinion. If he was any good as you guys think, why would he been put in Larry's doghouse with Penny.

[Matthew]

Exactly Jugs. He was a steal in the second round, but he wasn't the missing peice to the knicks puzzle.

[Nick]

Isiah Thomas is insane.

He wants to win games so bad. TEAMS win games. Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Quentin Richardson, Eddy Curry... these guys are NOT team players.

If New York wasn't such a high profile and demanding city, their franchise would be able to set into rebuilding mode. If it were Memphis or something, they could easily just trade away their stars/contracts/cancers and rebuild around their rookies and young guys. But not NY. Unfortunatly the Big Apple doesn't have the patience. Instead, they're in a salary cap hell, which has fucked them for years. Somebody needs to tell Isiah Thomas that this isn't NBA Live.

However, if either Francis or Marbury can sacrifice their ego, they will make one hell of a starting backcourt.

Orlando make a clever trade. I would've traded Francis straight up for an expiring contract (although i'd probably lose my job, lol). But they even got Trevor Ariza, who can be be a difference maker imo to a team with his defense, hustle and athleticsm. And he's only young.

[J@3]

The worst thing about this deal to me is that Theo Ratliff and Darius Miles were also on the table for Penny/Ariza. I think those two would've filled bigger needs than Francis, that being said I'm interesting to see how they work out.

[Matthew]

So you'd rather Ariza than Francis? Try re reading my post and responding to what I said in that as to positives for the trade.

[Matt]

Ariza is a restricted FA i think.

[Nick]

Sorry, i didn't realise your opinion rules all.

I guess we have different views of what it takes for a team to win. I don't think Francis is an answer for New York. While he has superior athleticsm with great scoring abilities make him no doubt talented, he's a player that needs the ball to make his impact. And there are already several players like this on New York. Not to mention the stupidity of this trade finincially for New York, which is often overlooked.

Besides, did i say i would prefer Ariza over Francis? No. Steve Francis is a better player than Ariza. However, I would rather an empty roster slot than to waste my cap on the team cancer that Steve Francis is.


Meanwhile, here's an interesting perspective to think about:
Click

[Matthew]

I never said my opinion rules all.. its just that i just posted positives of the trade from new yorks perspective and you're completely obvious to it, saying how bad the deal is without responding to my post.

But never the less...

Steve Francis is a cancer? How can you even say that? Look at how Houston is going now... is it better than when Francis was there? Nope. Then you look at Orlando, did it improve when stevie arrived? Yes.

As for the financial implications, how does this really make the Knicks worse? How were they even going to resign Ariza after this season? The Knicks are already so over the cap that this doesnt make it worse.

And Steve francis does need the ball to be effective, but so do 95% of the players in the nba. Its not like he dribbles non stop for 20 seconds, and if he only driblles for 14 seconds he's crap.

[Nick]

I never said my opinion rules all.. its just that i just posted positives of the trade from new yorks perspective and you're completely obvious to it, saying how bad the deal is without responding to my post.

So?

Then you look at Orlando, did it improve when stevie arrived? Yes.

Steve Francis is not the soul reason for this. He contributed, but Orlando simply improved their roster. Although they swapped Tracy McGrady for Steve Francis, they...

- Drafted Dwight Howard. (Although young and inexperienced, he made a significant contribution. He's a rare athletic big man. A monster on the boards, blocked almost 2 shots agame, and was an efficient finisher on the offensive end)
- Acquired Cuttino Mobley. (An outside threat. Streaky shooter and scorer)
- Grant Hill made a comeback. (Extremely efficient on offense. Smart on defense. Can create for himself and others. Over 19 ppg on over 50 FG%.)
- They signed Hedo Turkoglu. (Can do a lot of things. Outside threat. High IQ. Can score from a lot of places. Added depth to the team)
- They drafted Jameer Nelson. (Heady point guard)

And Steve francis does need the ball to be effective, but so do 95% of the players in the nba. Its not like he dribbles non stop for 20 seconds, and if he only driblles for 14 seconds he's crap.

Except that Francis overly holds the ball to a point where it is inefficient. And Reggie Miller, Shawn Marion, etc could hold the ball for 2 seconds and be fantastic.

Besides all this, my beef with the trade was the financial side of it...

As for the financial implications, how does this really make the Knicks worse?

Well, they are already in salary cap hell. To solve the problem, you should trade for expiring contracts. The problem wont go away overnight, but it is atleast worth chipping away at the burden. Instead, they trade their best expiring contract away for a player with a contract near-size and no garuntee of clear advantage in winning now/winning later.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Laxation]

a friend is telling me that the nicks wanted francis to have a crack at getting KG, but he is being gay and wont tell me where he got the info

[J@3]

RealGM.

[Nick]

Read.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting perspective to think about:
Click