Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett

[AI2]

i have to go with the 2 time mvp td he has 2 mvps while kg has only 1

[KOBE#8]

KG

[Matt]

i find it funny how some people say TD is the best PF of all time, and yet people can't decide whether or not he's better than KG.

[AI2]

i think it is because the best team pf is td and the best pf is kg

[air gordon]

Im reffering to 2002 when Duncan took the Spurs on his back totally. That team was virtually him and thats was it. Robinson averaged 10 ppg, as did steve smith, and they were the next top scorers.

Yet despite that, they still won 58 games, the midwest division and got into the second round of the playoffs; All on Duncans back.

AHH.. lol i thought you were talking about the 2002-2003 NBA Champion Spurs. I believe him leading/carrying that team to the finals was the more impressive feat. regardless, the job he did with that 2002 team was impressive as well

i voted Duncan btw

[maes]

i find it funny how some people say TD is the best PF of all time, and yet people can't decide whether or not he's better than KG.

It's because "best" is meaningless, what is the best food? What is the best color? What is the best life?

You won't find one NBA expert who won't deny Larry Bird was one of the best players in all NBA history, yet he averaged a modest 24 ppg. His FG% was 49%, which was very good but there are plenty of players in today's NBA who were more accurate. Basically, KG beats Bird in every statistical dept.

Still, would you have rather have KG in his rookie year or Larry Bird?

I think today we all get caught up in all the statistical debates and overlook the only stat that matters: wins.

[Riot]

I think today we all get caught up in all the statistical debates and overlook the only stat that matters: wins.

Because last time I checked, wins are something a team accomplishes and not one player. Ask Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson , Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett. There are 12 guys on a roster.

[magius]

i can't remember the last time a great player missed the playoffs two years in a row.

if you want statistics, obviously you pick kg. if you want wins, you pick td. its simple. the reason td's reg season stats aren't monstrous is because 1. they don't have to be, and 2. we forget that every year td goes deep into the playoffs; some players don't have long summers and play at less than full strenght come the start of the next season. if the only thing going in kg's favor is stats, then i can make the analogy to wilt and bill russell. the casual fan will look at wilt's 50 ppg season and won't even think twice. but the real nba fan knows that bill russell was and is the greatest centre to play the game, even shaq would admit it.

the reason people have a hard time picking between kg and td right now is quite obvious, a majority of people prefer flash players. just like a majority of teenagers like hilary duff's music. who can blame them? But if you were to look at this subjectively, and stop putting up a laughable excuse that winning doesn't matter, then you can only come to one conclusion: td is far and away the better player right now (and by player i mean player, not individual player which is a whole different monster, and to which i give kg probably). if wins don't matter, why is it that when tmac had his monster season it was widely accepted that kobe was a better player despite having slightly lesser stats? why is it that nash, while he was in dallas, was held in more regard than marbury? why is it that brand is a legit mvp contender? why would anyone take horry in his prime over shareef in his prime? why would anyone put the game winning shot in kerr's hand instead of, say, baron davis's? winning matters because winning is a reflection of the superstar.

the fact remains that in none of td's championship seasons did he ever have a teammate avergaging over 20 per during the reg season, and only last year's championship did he have one during the playoffs (ginobili). td has also never played with a hall of famer in his prime. while neither has kg, i bring this up because malone has, yet malone never won one championship despite stock. you say look at duncans teammates, but fail to see that he has won three seperate championships with three different second options in a relatively short period of time. thats impressive, i don't remember the last time that has ever occured. usually when superstars win championships they have a constant enviroment, a constant cast. kobe and shaq, mj and pip, isiah and dumars, magic and kareem, etc..

San antonio has also been touted for its defense for a long time, but have you ever watch a spur game? their defense revolves around pushing the player into td, every time, you see bowen, manu pushing their guard away from the screen into td. for all kg's man on man accolades, i don't see that kind of post intimidation from him, and therin lies the biggest difference in my mind. post intimidation, offensively and defensively. don't get me wrong, kg has the talent to be as good or a greater post player offensively than td, but often times he falls in love with his fall away jumper, reminiscent of rasheed. the easiest way to beat minny is to let kg take his fall aways, which often he is content to do.

despite that, i'm not trying to bring kg down. i'm trying to bring td up to a proper recognition, it just so happens that the thread is comparing td and kg which is a perfect situation. in fact, of my all time great pf's i would place kg third.

[Sam The Man]

Duncan for sure

[Andrew]

i can't remember the last time a great player missed the playoffs two years in a row.

I know it's probably not the most recent example, but Oscar Robertson's Royals missed the playoffs in 1968 and 1969 and a lot of people call him the best player of all-time. His Royals missed the playoffs on two other occasions and were just over .500 during his 10 years on the team...if that doesn't disqualify him from being the greatest ever in the eyes of more than a couple of people, then KG's woes the last couple of seasons shouldn't drop him too many notches.

That said, as much as I like KG my pick would be Duncan simply because of what he's been able to accomplish. The Spurs have the best record in American pro sports since Duncan was drafted and aside from a couple of constants aside from Duncan several parts have been changed and San Antonio remains an elite team, a three time champion and one of the favourites to take it again this year.

[Riot]

i can't remember the last time a great player missed the playoffs two years in a row.

So if Kobe Bryant misses the playoffs this year he isn't a great player? Same with KG?

we forget that every year td goes deep into the playoffs; some players don't have long summers and play at less than full strenght come the start of the next season. if the only thing going in kg's favor is stats, then i can make the analogy to wilt and bill russell. the casual fan will look at wilt's 50 ppg season and won't even think twice. but the real nba fan knows that bill russell was and is the greatest centre to play the game, even shaq would admit it.

Please do not give me that. Kevin Garnett has played 5,000+ more career minutes (including postseason minutes) than Tim Duncan. Garnett plays more minutes per game and Garnett is more durable. Tim Duncan in the past two season has played in 69 and 66 games. In the past 7 years Garnett has missed a total of 3 games, and atleast one of those games was at the end of the season when Flip Saunders would sit him out so he wouldn't get hurt.

So if I really don't think you can use that agrument.

[Colin]

Did Magius just compare Kevin Garnett to Hilary Duff?

And you started to make a good point, then just sort of threw in a few things that didn't work. The T-Mac comparison is good, but then Nash in Dallas popped up. And Nash had two 20 point guys on his team (Finley was always within a point or two). Then Kerr-Baron came up. Comparing a 4th option to a 1st option is silly, no matter what the context. And then you brought up Duncan never having a 20 point guy. Are you actually trying to suggest that KG has a better supporting cast? If you want to go that route, you'll get statistically worked over by anyone supporting KG. You might just be trying to bring TD up and not KG down, but you're bringing up points that, if applied to KG, support the other side of the argument much better.

[maes]

Because last time I checked, wins are something a team accomplishes and not one player. Ask Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson , Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett. There are 12 guys on a roster.

Exactly, and basketball, last i checked, is a team sport, not a singles sport like golf or tennis.

Therefore, individual play = irrelevant.

And this isn't just personal opinion, it's the opinion of those who chose the 50 greatest players of NBA history. At least half it not more of those players were primarily good teammates. They didn't put up any stats of any note, most of them had stats far inferior to KG's.

Please do not give me that. Kevin Garnett has played 5,000+ more career minutes (including postseason minutes) than Tim Duncan.

Duncan has 4,305 post-season minutes, KG has 2,002. Not sure how you can argue that Duncan does not play deeper into the playoffs.

[Riot]

Duncan has 4,305 post-season minutes, KG has 2,002. Not sure how you can argue that Duncan does not play deeper into the playoffs.

You said Duncan is getting woren down because he is playing deep into the playoffs and that is wearing him out. However, Garnett has played 5,000 more minutes (including postseason) than Tim Duncan. I'm not saying Duncan hasn't gone deep into the postseason, because he has, but Garnett has played a lot more career minutes than Duncan and Garnett isn't getting woren down.

[magius]

Did Magius just compare Kevin Garnett to Hilary Duff?

And you started to make a good point, then just sort of threw in a few things that didn't work. The T-Mac comparison is good, but then Nash in Dallas popped up. And Nash had two 20 point guys on his team (Finley was always within a point or two). Then Kerr-Baron came up. Comparing a 4th option to a 1st option is silly, no matter what the context. And then you brought up Duncan never having a 20 point guy. Are you actually trying to suggest that KG has a better supporting cast? If you want to go that route, you'll get statistically worked over by anyone supporting KG. You might just be trying to bring TD up and not KG down, but you're bringing up points that, if applied to KG, support the other side of the argument much better.

yes i did and no it isn't.

the fact that nash had two 20 point guys on his team doesn't change the fact that any gm not named isiah would've taken him over marbury at that point and time. the kerr-baron analogy came up because why is it that a coach would put the ball in kerr's hands for the final shot? after all, the guy never averaged anything close to star numbers. its because he hits clutch shots. you can't hit clutch shots if you don't win. if, like some people say, winning is only a reflection of the team and not a player, why are so many players valued for the fact that they do?

now, if you reread when i brought up duncan never having a 20 point guy i clearly said that i knew that kg didn't have anything much either (at least not as a team, he had some good players in steph, sam, spree, and wally), i brought it up because i think what duncan has accomplished with a constantly changing cast puts him above malone.

You said Duncan is getting woren down because he is playing deep into the playoffs and that is wearing him out. However, Garnett has played 5,000 more minutes (including postseason) than Tim Duncan. I'm not saying Duncan hasn't gone deep into the postseason, because he has, but Garnett has played a lot more career minutes than Duncan and Garnett isn't getting woren down.

i said it not him, and theres a distinct difference between regular season minutes and post season minutes. i only brought it up because you said that garnett plays hurt too, but isn't it true that recuperation is a matter of time. it doesn't matter that garnett plays equal minutes, because he has those minutes in a concentrated timeframe, and then has a long stretch of recuperative time. duncan has a far greater case for playing injured than garnett.

So if Kobe Bryant misses the playoffs this year he isn't a great player? Same with KG?

no i didnt say that, i just said i couldn't remember the last time a great player missed the playoffs two years consecutively. and i wouldn't consider either among the true greats of the game. like ive said before, and you know, i think that those players need three specific things: "reg season mvp, finals mvp, championship." hopefully kg can acquire those because i consider him among the greatest individual talents the game has ever seen (and it would make this comparison just).

[Andrew]

no i didnt say that, i just said i couldn't remember the last time a great player missed the playoffs two years consecutively.

I know it's probably not the most recent example, but Oscar Robertson's Royals missed the playoffs in 1968 and 1969 and a lot of people call him the best player of all-time. His Royals missed the playoffs on two other occasions and were just over .500 during his 10 years on the team...if that doesn't disqualify him from being the greatest ever in the eyes of more than a couple of people, then KG's woes the last couple of seasons shouldn't drop him too many notches.

Just in case anyone missed it.

[Timberwolves1990]

duncan sucks

NICELYSAID Kevin Garnett is the most unique and he is the greatest player in the NBA rings mean nothing Kg is a legendary player any player would be lucky to play with him on a team Duncan does NOT deserve to start on the allstars.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

NICELYSAID Kevin Garnett is the most unique and he is the greatest player in the NBA rings mean nothing Kg is a legendary player any player would be lucky to play with him on a team Duncan does NOT deserve to start on the allstars.

I'd be hard pressed to find the bias in all that eloquent speech, but... I did.

[Null17]

NICELYSAID Kevin Garnett is the most unique and he is the greatest player in the NBA rings mean nothing Kg is a legendary player any player would be lucky to play with him on a team Duncan does NOT deserve to start on the allstars.

I'd be hard pressed to find the bias in all that eloquent speech, but... I did.

Amen. How can he be the most unique when a lot of the PF's these days are playing like him

[Matt]

this season @ the PF spot, Duncan is behind Garnett, Nowitzki, Brand, Marion.

Anyways, since Timmy is so great, how does his team go from 2-0 up against the Lakers to losing 4 straight.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

since Timmy is so great, how does his team go from 2-0 up against the Lakers to losing 4 straight.

What an argument...

Gee, if Mj was so great, why could he not defeat Orlando in the playoffs during his first comeback year?

[KIG1]

Duncan doesnt put good enough numbers

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Duncan doesnt put good enough numbers

I'm guessing Iverson would love to put up 19.5 ppg and having 3 rings, instead of scoring 30 ppg with ZERO rings.

[Riot]

If Michael Jordan is the G.O.A.T. (Greatest Of All Time), Kevin Garnett is the B.P.O.A.T. (Best Player Of All Time)!

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Yup, and TD is the B.O.A.T.