Tim Duncan vs Kevin Garnett

[Matthew]

Rings dont mean a thing? I guess Chauncey Billups isn't as good as Steve Francis then.. becuase Francis has been to more all star games, and rings dont mean anything.

[Axel]

Tim Duncan is not better. Tim Duncan is on a better team. Is it KG's fault that Kevin McHale is a shitty GM?

We have all seen KG win when he is put on a team with decent talent. The team two years ago with Sprewell and Cassell (with KG) was really good, and nearly beat the Lakers in the conference finals.

Rings dont mean a thing? I guess Chauncey Billups isn't as good as Steve Francis then.. becuase Francis has been to more all star games, and rings dont mean anything.

When Steve Francis was making it to the all-star game, he was playing much better than Chauncey. Is he better now? No.

I would take Chauncey over Francis, because I think Chauncey is more of a pure PG, but regardless, when he was having good seasons in Houston he was much better than Billups... and career he has been a better player.

[Riot]

Kevin Garnett only takes about 15 shots per game, instead of looking for his open teammate he could shoot that and score 25-28ppg easily. Garnett is just asked to do more things than Tim Duncan on the basketball court.

Flip Saunders told reporters that the Timberwolves ask "so much" from Garnett that everyone kind of takes it for granted. Flip says he doesn't know of any player in the league that could do what Garnett does with all that he is asked to do. Basically everything on the team is anchored by Garnett. Which is why Garnett's minutes need to go down because by the time the 4th quarter comes he is just exhusted. I see it first hand, he is just out of it. The team isn't good enough to have a tired KG down the stretch.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

One more time. TD is putting up those numbers playing on one leg and facing various ailments like the flu. He still has the Spurs on course for 62+ victories. He has 3 titles, and 3 Finals' MVP awards, 2 regular season MVPs, and he is only 29.

If the question is who is the better player right now, maybe Garnett gets the nod considering Tim's ailments.

But if the question is who has been the better player in general, the answer should be obvious. Duncan.

[Amphatoast]

i don't think you can take the rings argument out of this discussion if it's a matter of whos the better out of them all time. TD's first ring had an *, the 2nd ring he really earned, and 3rd was well, 3rd. Heck, even right now you'd have to pick Duncan > KG in a championship series just because of Duncan experience and his production and understanding of it ( don't bring no gay darko> kg bullshit now)
and Riot is right, KG is just asked to do more than TD. TD main focus is to gear up for the playoffs for anther championship run right now. KG focus is just trying to make the playoffs.

[Matt]

Duncan wouldn't be able to do much more tham he is now.....defenses aren't really scared of his offensive arsenal anymore, unlike before when he used to light it up from the field.

[skateballer]

Shall I begin?

KG!!!!! Tim Duncan is a freakin dirt ball! K.G. rebounds more and shoots a lot more better. Hell, Duncan just does sucky dunks or lay-ups lol.

[Riot]

One more time. TD is putting up those numbers playing on one leg and facing various ailments like the flu. He still has the Spurs on course for 62+ victories. He has 3 titles, and 3 Finals' MVP awards, 2 regular season MVPs, and he is only 29.

If the question is who is the better player right now, maybe Garnett gets the nod considering Tim's ailments.

But if the question is who has been the better player in general, the answer should be obvious. Duncan.

Ok, Tim Duncan is playing hurt that is why his numbers are down. What about last year? Garnett was playing a knee that he shouldn't even been playing on. He still averated 22 and 13.5. Garnett doesn't miss games and Garnett is consistent, whether he is banged up or not.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Garnett doesn't miss games and Garnett is consistent, whether he is banged up or not.

Ofcourse. But if he was playing for the Spurs, belive me, he would take some time off, just like Duncan does. Vice versa if Td was playing for Minnie.

[Riot]

Garnett doesn't "take time off".

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Garnett doesn't "take time off".

Because he can't afford too. TD woudl do the same if playing for teh Wolves.

For crying out loud, the man rushed to the bathroom 4 times during a recent game, threw hits guts up, and still came back to help his team notch another regular season victory. I guess that's soft for you, eh?

[Matthew]

It's easy to make excuses for bad teammates Riot, but heres some history: in 2002 Duncan put the spurs on his back, carried an aging David Robinson and the rest of the spurs to the second round of the playoffs that year. I know Robinson was a manchild in his prime, but that season he averaged 12 ppg. You compare that to what Wally averaged before being traded, and that Duncan led to them to 58 wins and a series victory before running into a brick wall in shaq and kobe.

I know thats in 2002, but history is history and Duncan's history speaks volumes. He has been able to slowly step aside from being the dominant offensive player for the spurs, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have it anymore. Everyone says "you put garnett in duncans spot and they still win", but if you duncan in kgs spot, and i guarantee you they would be in a higher position then they are now.

The difference is leadership Kg, as much as i love him, isnt a strong leader. He's much like Patrick Ewing in that sense. Missing the playoffs last year hurt Garnetts legacy and all the violin stories of how much pressure is on KG's shoulders are wonderful, but the same amount (if not more) was on Duncans in 02, and look at what he accomplished. Its time for people to stop making excuses for their favourite players. You dont see me ranting and raving about how bad Francis has had it since he was traded do you?

[air gordon]

i think it's really hard to say that Duncan would take the Wolves to a higher level then Garnett has

IMO the person that has kept Garnett and the T'wolves down isn't KG... it's KEVIN McHALE.

Because of the Joe Smith debacle, Minnesota didn't have a 1st round draft pick for 2yrs. For a middling team like the Twolves- those were crucial. They never had a shot to draft Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Dalembert, Tinsley, Arenas, Bobby Simmons, Mehmet Okur, Prince, Krstic, Gadzuric, Boozer... just to name a few

And McHale's draft record is shit if you take out the KG selection

Also Garnett got that monstrous contract before the later versions of the CBA were instituted, which put a serious damper on the payroll.

...

I would say KG's biggest "flaw" is that he doesn't have a scorer's mentality. I do find it a little ironic since KG does show he has a killer instinct. Garnett did have some great clutch moments against the Kings in the playoffs last year. And i think Cassel, Sprewell, and Wally being out on the floor helped. I don't know where I'm going with this haha

Matthew- Robinson was crap by then but still good enough to guard Shaq/let Duncan rest on defense

[Matthew]

Shaq is only one player though. They won 58 games not becuase of David Robinson's abilty to guard Shaq fairly well.

[air gordon]

Robinson was a key contributor to that team. Having two 7fters on defense was a nightmare for the opposition. And Robinson was still a competent scorer, making it difficult to match up with the spurs defensivley

I think you're underrating Robinson's defense. We're talking about Shaq here, the most dominant force in the league before that series started.

[maes]

At this point in his career, Duncan coasts through the regular season because the Spurs are good enough to let Parker cruise them to a high seed without too much Timmy. Look at Duncan's playoff stats:

Career Playoff Duncan:
23.8 ppg
13.0 rpg
3.6 apg
2.79 bpg
50% FG%

That's an incredible performance for 105 playoff games.

KG is also his usual unstoppable self in the playoffs & regular season, he has to carry his team 100% of the time. The one thing notable about KG is that in the post-season his reliability drops, his FG% takes a signficant hit against playoff level defense.

Basically, Duncan doesn't care about beating up on the Hawks and Raptors of the league. He plays for real in the post-season.

KG has to be 110% now, because Minny won't even make the post-season at their rate.

[Riot]

The Spurs are lucky they even drafted Tim Duncan. If it wasn't for their injury problems they would have been in the playoffs that year, but instead they get the #1 pick and draft Tim Duncan. Duncan was drafted onto a great team that was all ready for him to suceed. Garnett was drafted onto a franchise that was about 5 years old and was struggling to win 25 games a season. The franchise was a mess.

As for Duncan carrying that team in 2002, sure he did, but what makes you think Garnett couldn't do that? Like I said earlier Minnesota is the unluckiest franchise in the NBA.

Things that have gone wrong-
Malik Sealy dies
Joe Smith scandel costs team 3 draft picks
Stephon Marbury's ego runs Gugliotta out of town
Marbury's ego runs Marbury out of town
Injuries (Brandon, Szczerbiak, Cassell, etc) have killed numerous potential playoff runs (and the one playoff run in 2004)
Unlucky seeding (the first year Garnett leads his team to homecourt, a team that was without Wally for 30+ games, the team draws the LA Lakers in the first round. Yay.)
Chauncey Billups demands starting spot but Flip won't promise it
Kevin McHale's draft record (Ebi over Josh Howard, Wally over Marion/Artest/Rip, William Avery over Artest/Kirilenko/Foster)

Just in general, Garnett's road in the NBA has been a lot rougher than Duncan's. Now, part of it you can put on the shoulders of Garnett I'm sure he'd agree with you on that. However, Duncan and Garnett were drafted into two completely different situations and they remain that way still today. You can play the if's, and's and but's all day long but at the end of the day Duncan has the rings and the respect that Garnett doesn't have. But when Garnett gets his ring in Minnesota it's going to be 100 times sweeter than all of Duncan's rings combined.

[Matthew]

Nick, That season though Robinson was crippled by a back injury which forced him to retire the end of the next season. But thats not an excuse, but it shows how Duncan was able to step his game up carry the Spurs in a way Garnett needs to do for the timberwolves.

[Riot]

Nick, That season though Robinson was crippled by a back injury which forced him to retire the end of the next season. But thats not an excuse, but it shows how Duncan was able to step his game up carry the Spurs in a way Garnett needs to do for the timberwolves.

Didn't Garnett do that in 2002? 2004? Just because he doesn't have a ring to show for it doesn't mean he didn't step up.

[beau_boy04]

did Minnesota make it to the playoff last season? in case they dont make it to the playoff once again meaning this season I see KG leaving town.

[air gordon]

Nick, That season though Robinson was crippled by a back injury which forced him to retire the end of the next season. But thats not an excuse, but it shows how Duncan was able to step his game up carry the Spurs in a way Garnett needs to do for the timberwolves.

he sure did retire a little bit earlier then expected. I would hardly called his back crippled when he's posting 13/17 in the clinching game of the NBA finals. Robinson wasn't the same player he was but he still was a more then serviceable player.

Duncan definitely did some "heavy lifting" that season. It was more TP, Manu, Jackson, etc going for the ride, not Robinson.

[Matthew]

Im reffering to 2002 when Duncan took the Spurs on his back totally. That team was virtually him and thats was it. Robinson averaged 10 ppg, as did steve smith, and they were the next top scorers.

Yet despite that, they still won 58 games, the midwest division and got into the second round of the playoffs; All on Duncans back.

[KIG1]

duncan sucks

[Null17]

duncan sucks

wow, now that's gangsta

[Pera]

Now I think these are two of the greatest F's at the moment so I thought I would compare them statisticly speaking, and also their all round game.

Tim Duncan:
PPG 19.5
RPG 11.4
APG 3.0
SPG .78
BPG 2.02
FG% .486
FT% .659
3P% .250
MPG 35.6

Kevin Garnett:
PPG 21.9
RPG 11.3
APG 4.5
SPG 1.22
BPG 1.37
FG% .539
FT% .787
3P% .368
MPG 39.0

KG get's more points then Duncan although the both get really the same number of rebounds.

KG on average get's more assists then Tim but I guess you don't really need a forward to get many assists.

KG also get's more steals then Tim swats more shots.

When it comes to shooting acurracy KG's the man.

Also KG's better from the charity strike.

In my opinion KG's the better player he's more athletic and also he's alot more agression.

But when it comes to rebounding this season they're pretty much the same but KG's allround game is alot better then Ducan's at the moment.

What do you guy's think?

me think that duncan is better he s the leader of the san antonio spurs
he doesnt need big numbers because thers manu tony & the others just look at there stats