Wade vs LeBron as told by Charley Rosen

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Wade vs LeBron as told by Charley Rosen

Postby Matt on Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:40 pm

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5303790

The Cavs at the Heat was definitely Thursday's marquee ball game. But did the result really matter?

Before the tip-off, Cleveland was 27-17 and locked into second-place behind Detroit in the Central Division, as well as into the No. 4 seed in the playoffs. The only threats to dislodge Cleveland are catastrophic injuries to key players, and Milwaukee, which is barely visible in the Cavs' rear view mirror
At the same time, the 28-18 Heat had a virtual strangle-hold on first place in the Southeast Division and, subsequently, the No. 2 seed.

Looking ahead, the only way that Cleveland and Miami can meet in the postseason would be in the conference finals — which would necessitate the Cavs' being able to down the Pistons in the semifinals — an unlikely occurrence.

So, given the scant long-term significance of Miami's monstrous 101-73 win, the most meaningful battle was waged between the team's brilliant young prodigies — Dwayne Wade and LeBron James.

Here's a blow-by-blow account:


MIN FG 3FG FT REB A ST BS TO PTS
Wade 35 11-20 0-0 2-3 4 6 4 1 3 24
James 39 12-29 2-5 3-3 5 7 1 0 1 27

Wade is by far the quicker of the two — quick enough to split the helping defense with which Cleveland attempted to stifle any screen/roll (S/R) that involved him. One particular curling, spinning, cross-over, reverse move that Wade showed in the first quarter was quick enough to challenge the accepted laws of time and space. Just to prove that this incredible sequence wasn't an accident, Wade scored on another spectacular defense-dissecting, inter-dimensional move later on.

Wade also moves better without the ball than does LeBron. The evidence in the game at hand included a neat pass-cut-catch-and-dunk Wade worked in tandem with Shaq. When the Cavs showed a zone defense, Wade zipped behind the defense and wound up with another catch-and-dunk. Plus a swift dive-cut off a double high-screen that eventuated in a timely lob pass from Jason Williams and a power dunk. (This was a terrific call by Pat Riley after a time out.)



Young Wade is also a rare combination of speed and power — blasting his way to the hoop on numerous occasions. He even showed a post-up game, easily spinning past a befuddled Alek Pavlovic.

Wade had no problem making simple reverse-wing-and/or-entry passes to facilitate various offensive sets. His pass-work while in motion was geared more toward creating immediate shots for his teammates.

Did he make any mistakes on offense? Plenty.

Like over-handling on one possession to the point where his mates became spectators, the defense surrounded him and his desperate nowhere-to-go pass was easily intercepted. Another relentless sticky-fingered dribble eventuated in Wade's bouncing the ball off his foot and out of bounds. A reckless one-on-three adventure into the paint resulted in a traveling violation. Still another force drive ended with Wade committing a charge. (That's right, I counted one more turnover than the official scorer.)

At least he only forced a single shot. Perhaps that's because Wade's jumper remains a work in progress. He was only 1-for-7 on his jumpers, with the majority of his misses clanging off the front rim.

In addition, it seems that Wade doesn't trust his left hand. How else could you explain an unobstructed approach to the basket from the left side in the early offense, when he scooped the ball with his right hand instead of simply laying it in with his left?



Wade made several quick-handed steals at the other end, but his defense was still on the shaky side. He was repeatedly lifted by ball fakes, failed to throw his hand when his man (usually Alek Pavlovic) shot jumpers in his vicinity, was either lost on or crushed by weak-side screens and routinely turned his head to watch the ball. Since Pavlovic isn't exactly a scoring dynamo, Wade's failures here were relatively harmless. The same lapses against the Pistons, however, would be fatal.

James has to be the most powerful backcourt dude since Magic. And like Magic, LeBron has a long, distance-eating stride that always seems to bring the basket within easy reach. Add a devilish cross-over, and a high-degree of creativity in the paint, and it's no wonder that Lebron is a scoring machine.

When the Cavs are forced to play half-court sets, LeBron is almost always given a high-screen to work with. His favorite ploy is to turn the corner and plunge into the paint. Once there, he'll keep on going should the defense fail to rotate. His other options are to pull-up and take a jumper, or whip a pass to an open teammate. Unlike Wade, however, LeBron seems disinclined to throw non-assist passes — only potential touchdown tosses for him.

James also over-handles even more than does Wade — beating that ball to death until something opens up. That's why Cleveland's half-court offense is relatively static. With James dominating every possession, there simply isn't enough crisp ball- and player- movement necessary to consistently overcome the league's premier defensive teams.

While LeBron is certainly a better perimeter shooter than Wade, the prematurely-coroneted "King" lacks a smooth, consistent stroke. That's why he's such an erratic shooter — making shots he should miss, and missing shots he should make. (From the perimeter, he was just 3-for-11, including five forced shots and one brick.)

LeBron's defense was as bad as ever. He continually tracked the ball and lost any awareness of where his man (usually James Posey) was. James also failed to challenge shots, was easily lifted by fakes and repeatedly played weak-side defense with his body straight and his knees locked. On one transition situation, James was forced to guard Wade, but as soon as Wade passed the ball to the perimeter, LeBron executed a rare move — a 360 on defense! Turning in a slow circle, LeBron had no idea where the ball was, whom he should be defending, where he was or where he was supposed to be.

If Wade's weak-side defense is poor, LeBron's is abominable.

In addition, Wade is a much more mature player than James. For sure, Wade's playing with Shaq alleviates the kind of pressure and scoring responsibility that LeBron is forced to shoulder. But c'est la guerre, or such is war.

Assuming that Riley's charges can remain healthy, Miami is certainly capable of beating Detroit and gaining entry into the championship round. Both Udonis Haslem and James Posey are stoppers, and Alonzo Mourning blocks shots like he's playing with a tennis racquet. The Heat swarm on defense, can run with any team, have excellent spacing and movement in their half-court sets and have one of the deepest, most experienced benches in the league. And there's always Shaq, older, slower and less explosive, but still a monster in the middle.

Cleveland, on the other hand, has no chance to beat Detroit. The Cavs still lack an adequate point guard, athletic bigs (aside from the hustling, but undisciplined Anderson Varejao), dependable perimeter shooters and a viable defensive presence. Besides which, Cleveland's one-man-band simply can't compare with Detroit's symphonic game plan.


That's a fair summary of how these guys play game to game.

Wade > LeBron.
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Postby Axel on Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:55 pm

Charley Rosen is my new hero (Y)
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Postby Jugs on Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:34 pm

Interesting analysis, lol @ LeBron's 360 in Defence.
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Postby mark_30_112 on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:01 pm

I reckon LBJ has a better all round game.

But Wade is still an awsome player.
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Postby Its_asdf on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:55 pm

I think its a lot harder to compare the two because LeBron is a SF/SG while Wade is a combo guard. Wade and LeBron both have great supporting players, but Wade has Shaq and a team filled with players that have the ability to take them to the finals.
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Postby Abctest123 on Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:16 am

if wade can develop a consistent outside shot, he'll be nearly unstoppable, and the same for lebron (whatever happened to him still passing the ball, last year he passed the ball around, now all the scoring is done by him). I just hope they can learn to defend well early, as good defense in this league is turning into a lost art.
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Postby kinokong on Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:50 am

I just hope they can learn to defend well early, as good defense in this league is turning into a lost art.


nice.... now if only we can get it through nba players thick skulls
PPL r a little feisty these days:D
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Postby maes on Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:53 am

drunkmofo123 wrote: I just hope they can learn to defend well early.


Why, are they going to play in Europe?
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Postby Abctest123 on Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:47 pm

^well, people DO learn things better and quicker when they are younger.
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Postby BIG GREEN on Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:59 pm

Dwayde's (Dwayne wayde) game is similar to bron..but any how you slice it and dice it he's not on bron's level. To say dwayne wade is a better player is pure bullshit imo...regardless of what team he plays on.
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Postby fgrep15 on Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:20 pm

Dwayde's (Dwayne wayde) game is similar to bron..but any how you slice it and dice it he's not on bron's level. To say dwayne wade is a better player is pure bullshit imo...regardless of what team he plays on.

What level is that? While I'd agree that Lebron is a little better, though right now you could argue they're still equal overall as players, he still hasn't made any great gap between them. Wade while not having the same fancy passing skill has shown to be just as good a passer, and a much better drive and dish passer [his assist numbers also surpassed Lebron's last season PER minute]. While neither is in the running for DPOY, Wade is a better defender man to man and on the help.

Scoring wise, Lebron is a slightly better scorer, and better outisde shooter, but Wade is a more clutch player. Lebron is also the better rebounder, but relative to their position on the floor, height, and size, rebounding is a wash. Wade has also brought down his turnovers this season, and they're at the same amount. In terms of impact on the team, they both have great impact on their team.
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Postby BIG GREEN on Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:39 am

Maybe i should clarify then...Lebron has better stats than Dwayde in every major statistical category; thusly making him a higher level player in my opinion. I dont see a team being built around Dwayde...but the cavs are having success building themselves around Bron.

Cavalier's record is comparable to Miami...while they have a whole bunch of good players and hall-o-famers. That in my opinion speaks negatives for dwayde when compared to lebron.
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Postby fgrep15 on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:12 am

Maybe i should clarify then...Lebron has better stats than Dwayde in every major statistical category

Every major category? He does?

Lebron:
30.9 PPG | 6.8 RPG | 6.5 APG | 1.64 SPG | .490 FG%

Wade:
27.0 PPG | 5.9 RPG | 6.9 APG | 2.00 SPG | .487 FG%


Cavalier's record is comparable to Miami...while they have a whole bunch of good players and hall-o-famers. That in my opinion speaks negatives for dwayde when compared to lebron.

They have old HOFer's, Shaq is still good, but Payton's HOF status doesn't mean anything in the comparison. They have also had injury problems with Shaq and Williams who have missed 18 and 15 games respectively. The Cavs have had injury problems too with Hughes who has missed 19 games. There's also Varejao, but while he's a nice energy and hustle player, he's not on the same impact level as these guys.
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Postby BIG GREEN on Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:45 am

Ok i digress about the bron vs. dwayde stats. Lebron is a better player statisticaly..but the difference isn't vast.

However, i disagree concerning miami vs. cavaliers. Logic would lead me to believe that if lebron can have such a record when he's the main guy on the team...what if he had shaq like wade? I'm really not impressed by miami's performance..regardless of who's the blame.
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Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Dwyane Wade also led an overachieving Heat team into the second round in 1984. His rookie stats weren't off the charts but hardly terrible and he was impressive in Miami's playoff run that season.
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Postby gifted on Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:11 pm

I agree on a lot of it, but some things I must point out:

Unlike Wade, however, LeBron seems disinclined to throw non-assist passes — only potential touchdown tosses for him.
That's bull to me. His court vision on the ball is one of the best i've ever seen. Better than Kobe's or T-Mac's or Jordan's. He knows where people are on the floor, he knows when to use his body to create openings for other players, and he knows when to make the right pass (and unlike most players he will make that pass). In their halfcourt sets, LeBron does dominate the ball, but he always looks around for openings for other players before looking to score.

Wade also moves better without the ball than does LeBron.
I can say now that Wade is the smarter player. His awareness on and off the ball is better than James, as well as his defense. But, people have to remember that Wade is almost 3 years older and has the college experience. LeBron didn't have that college experience and he's still getting better.
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Postby Its_asdf on Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:18 pm

Dwyane Wade also led an overachieving Heat team into the second round in 1984.


:shock: Dwyane must have hit his prime a long time ago.....
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Postby Drex on Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:49 pm

I knew Andrew liked the 90's and stuff, but I thought he was getting over that :P
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Postby Andrew on Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:03 pm

:doh:

I don't know how I got 2004 mixed up with 1984. I think I've just found an excuse to take a holiday. :lol:
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Postby Colin on Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:34 pm

giftedvisionz wrote:
Unlike Wade, however, LeBron seems disinclined to throw non-assist passes — only potential touchdown tosses for him.
That's bull to me. His court vision on the ball is one of the best i've ever seen. Better than Kobe's or T-Mac's or Jordan's. He knows where people are on the floor, he knows when to use his body to create openings for other players, and he knows when to make the right pass (and unlike most players he will make that pass). In their halfcourt sets, LeBron does dominate the ball, but he always looks around for openings for other players before looking to score.

I actually thought that was a great comparison. Bill Simmons brought it up months ago in (I think) one of his mailbags. He didn't put it as nicely as Rosen, but the same point was being made.

I would have disagreed with this a year ago, and completely disagreed with this when he was a rookie. His vision has gotten better the last two years, but he isn't taking advantage of it.
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Postby Matt on Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:00 pm

dominating the ball kills the offense. Especially since Cavs have no motion.

...what if he had shaq like wade


Here's the part where no one laughs.....Bron has Ilgauskas. Sure he isn't monster of the paint, but he's automatic from midrange, he can fill up the boxscore with jumpers and is good for 17+ppg. Still, he doesn't get the ball enough.

I guarantee that Bron will become a more selfish player as time goes on.
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Postby Matt on Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:09 pm

Lebron:
30.9 PPG | 6.8 RPG | 6.5 APG | 1.64 SPG | .490 FG%

Wade:
27.0 PPG | 5.9 RPG | 6.9 APG | 2.00 SPG | .487 FG%


Let's compare.

PPG- Lebron is main focus on offense. Miami's game is to work it through Shaq although slightly less these days.

RPG- LeBron's #'s aren't that great for a SF....Wade's near 6 is pretty exceptional for a SG.

APG- For a guy that dominates the ball so much and with such wonderful passing skills, shouldn;t Lebron get more? Wade's numbers are good for a guy with a PG on his team who shares ball handling responsibilities.
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Postby BIG GREEN on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 pm

Matt wrote:RPG- LeBron's #'s aren't that great for a SF....Wade's near 6 is pretty exceptional for a SG.

APG- For a guy that dominates the ball so much and with such wonderful passing skills, shouldn;t Lebron get more? Wade's numbers are good for a guy with a PG on his team who shares ball handling responsibilities.


Fact is fact...you can't say a guy having a good stat is "supposed to happen" because of the position he plays. There are tons of SF in the history of the nba who didnt have that many rebounds per game.

What about shooting percentage?..Not only is bron a better scorer..regardless of the reason..but his shooting percentage is slightly better; he's a more efficient scorer. Remember, from the beginning i've been touting which is the best statistically...cause debating the reasons for those stats will lead to a longer discussion than i care to attend.

Matt wrote:
I guarantee that Bron will become a more selfish player as time goes on.


You base this assumption on what?
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Postby Matt on Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:48 am

but his shooting percentage is slightly better


it's a 0.3% difference...that's negligeble IMO.

Remember, from the beginning i've been touting which is the best statistically...cause debating the reasons for those stats will lead to a longer discussion than i care to attend.


i dont wanna type either.

You base this assumption on what?


i think he should be more like Grant Hill not MJ. He can help his team more by taking less shots and focusing on defense.
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Postby BIG GREEN on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 am

Ok but that doesnt explain why you think he will become a selfish player.
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