Marc Stein's all-star selections

[GloveGuy]

Paul Pierce is the only player in the league to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists. That alone makes the Celtics's record a moot point in discussing whether he should be an all-star.

He should be an all-star.

[fgrep15]

Why is Chris Paul such a good selection?

It's between Paul, Baron, and Allen for the other guard spot. Paul and West are leading their team to a playoff spot, and a +.500 record, whether the West is weaker or not. When you consider he's putting up 16.5 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 7.5 APG, and 2.2 SPG, it's quite impressive. Add 3.5 more PPG and he's putting up better numbers than Lebron as a rookie. Now I know 3-4 more PPG is a lot harder to get than seems to most, but the guy definately deserves it.

Paul Pierce is the only player in the league to lead his team in points, rebounds, and assists.

So was Jefferson for a while last season.

[Matt]

He's a catch & shooter, he runs his man through screens and then pops. All the guys mentioned above create their own plays, score unassisted when they have to.

it sounds like your trying to downplay what he does. This is his go to move....running through screens, it works well so he uses it because defenses can't stop it. He doesn't need to create his own shot because he gets open for one. Also, he can take it to the hole with hs much improved driving game.

Did i mention his much improved defense too

[magius]

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

chris paul is leading the hornets to a better record then kobe is the lakers, considering where they were last year and where they are now, its pretty self explanatory why he should be on the all star team. according to some other people's logic that i've read here and there, he should be an mvp candidate too. not that i agree, just saying.

[Matthew]

The hornets are winning games by sneaking up on teams. If you think Paul is their leader, you are mistaken. The Hornets arent going anywhere, they are yet to find themselves, so you cant say "paul is leading the hornets". It would be like saying Kirk Hinrich deserves a spot over Paul Pierce.

[Matt]

How isn't he the teams on court leader? when he plays well so does the rest of the team.

[fgrep15]

I don't see how you can say he isn't a leader on the team. He has the floor general attitude towards him, but while he's not carrying the team singlehandedly, he's a leader for them. He's got great help from West, and PJ Brown is a nice veteran leader for them, but even as a young player he's very mature.

[Matthew]

Being mature doesnt mean you are "leading" your team. He isnt their leader.. that would be like saying BJ armstrong led the bulls in 93, he was their starting pg. Just becuase you play the pg position doesnt mean you are the leader.

[magius]

well chris paul doesnt have a michael jordan or scottie pippen, he has one pj brown, don't get me wrong pj browns a good player, but he's not the reason for the turnaround. while i agree chris paul may not be the locker room leader, or even a leader persay in respect to that word, you have to agree that he is leading the hornets to the record they have. the hornets may be "sneaking up" on teams, but if thats the case and they arent at the very least marginally improved by paul, how come the bobcats aren't sneaking up on teams? the knicks? you can sneak up on teams once in awhile, but you can't sneak your way into a 500+ record in the west.

what do you mean the hornets aren't going anywhere? as of today they are going to the playoffs. im not saying they're going to make it past the first round, but the same can be said of the lakers or the twolves (if they make it) or the 76ers. these teams are all going nowhere and everyone knows it, does that mean kobe, kg, and iverson aren't the leaders of their teams? (regardless of whether they are good leaders or not) again, im not saying he is the absolute leader, he is only a rookie, but he is nonetheless the most valuable hornet by far, and he is leading them (so far, i'm not saying he will so don't blow a coconut) to the playoffs whether you like it or not.

[Matt]

He isnt their leader

who is.

[Matthew]

I never said he has MJ around him, but PJ Brown and Desmond Mason are their leaders, and Byron Scott has also been a big leader for them (not on the court obviously, but still a precense for them).

And yes, the Hornets are sneaking up on teams. Remember the way the Magic in 2000 snuck up every team they played, and missed the playoffs by a tiebreaker? Thats very reminisant of this hornet team, but you didnt see Darrell Armstrong as an all star. The Bobcats are in their 2nd year in the league. Normally that alone gives justification as to why they arent sneaking up on teams, but also take into acount the absurd amount of injuries those guys have.

The Hornets arent going anywhere. They have no shot of winning more than one playoff game, let alone a series. Sure, right now they have a better record than the Lakers and Philly, but you have picked the only time in the past month to say that (i know it wasnt intended, but its the only time the hornets have been ahead of both teams). But are you implying that Paul is just as valuable to the Hornets as what Kobe is to the Lakers, or Iverson is to the Sixers? I seriously hope not.

But seeing we're only picking players who are leading their teams, lets do a reshuffle, becuase Ben Wallace, Dwayne Wade, Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Rip shouldnt be on the teams either, becuase they arent the leaders of their team. That is, of course, if you go by your way of logic in saying that a player like Chris Paul is worthy becuase he is "leading" the Hornets to a record.

[ixcuincle]

well chris paul doesnt have a michael jordan or scottie pippen, he has one pj brown, don't get me wrong pj browns a good player, but he's not the reason for the turnaround. while i agree chris paul may not be the locker room leader, or even a leader persay in respect to that word, you have to agree that he is leading the hornets to the record they have. the hornets may be "sneaking up" on teams, but if thats the case and they arent at the very least marginally improved by paul, how come the bobcats aren't sneaking up on teams? the knicks? you can sneak up on teams once in awhile, but you can't sneak your way into a 500+ record in the west.

what do you mean the hornets aren't going anywhere? as of today they are going to the playoffs. im not saying they're going to make it past the first round, but the same can be said of the lakers or the twolves (if they make it) or the 76ers. these teams are all going nowhere and everyone knows it, does that mean kobe, kg, and iverson aren't the leaders of their teams? (regardless of whether they are good leaders or not) again, im not saying he is the absolute leader, he is only a rookie, but he is nonetheless the most valuable hornet by far, and he is leading them (so far, i'm not saying he will so don't blow a coconut) to the playoffs whether you like it or not.

On a related topic it looks like the Wake Forest Demon Decons miss Chris Paul a lot. They are (very surprisingly) in the cellar of the ACC and lose to crap teams like Miami and (i hate to say it) Virginia Tech. I'd have thought Wake Forest could do better than this and at least have 17 wins by now , with Chris Paul or not.

[fgrep15]

Being mature doesnt mean you are "leading" your team. He isnt their leader.. that would be like saying BJ armstrong led the bulls in 93, he was their starting pg. Just becuase you play the pg position doesnt mean you are the leader.

No, it really wouldn't be like saying that. Like I said, he's a leader for them, he leads with how he plays on the court.

But seeing we're only picking players who are leading their teams, lets do a reshuffle, becuase Ben Wallace, Dwayne Wade, Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and Rip shouldnt be on the teams either, becuase they arent the leaders of their team. That is, of course, if you go by your way of logic in saying that a player like Chris Paul is worthy becuase he is "leading" the Hornets to a record.

How about because he's also putting up nice numbers along with it. It's not like he's averaging 10 points and 5 assits or something. The guy is averaging about 17 PPG, 6 RPG, 8 APG, and 2 SPG. Why aren't those All-Star numbers?

I don't agree with you having to "lead" your team to be an All-Star, don't think anyone actually implied that, though maquis gave that as an example for Paul, but since when is Jason Kidd not a leader on his team? Also being a leader on your team, and carrying a team like someone like Kobe or Iverson is not the same thing as we've already noted. PJ Brown is a leader on the Hornets, but he's definately not the main factor in them winning games.

I'm not really sure what you're even arguing anymore. Are you arguing that Paul shouldn't be an All-Star, or what?

[Matthew]

No, I'm using his logic with Paul Pierce and Tayshawn Prince to point out how flawed it is. Sure Paul has "nice" numbers, but they arent great like what Carmelo is putting up: 25.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.6 apg. Theres no doubt in my mind who deserves to be in the ASG out of those 2.

[fgrep15]

Paul and Carmelo aren't listed at the same position though. Paul is making it as a guard, not as one of the extra 2 spots, or as a forward.

[Matthew]

I'm aware of that, Andrew pointed that out earlier. However, it doesn't make it any less of an injustice if Paul makes it and Carmelo doesn't, strictly becuase of "positions".

[fgrep15]

Well that's how it always is. None of the C's in the West should make it over the forwards either simply because of "positions", but it happens. Some guys deserve to make the All-NBA teams over another guy, but because of "positions", they don't make it. It happens...

[Matthew]

Do you agree with it though?

[fgrep15]

I do agree that Carmelo is more of, or at the least as much of an All-Star, if that's what you're arguing, I don't disagree at all. With how the selection goes though, he's not an All-Star as a forward, which sucks for him, though he could possibly make it still.

[Matthew]

If you dont disagree at all, why try to justify Paul as an all star?

he's not an All-Star as a forward

This is my problem with the entire process: I don't care about him making it "as a forward", I just want to see players who are worthy there. It shouldn't really matter when it comes to position, especially when you compare shooting guards and small forwards in the NBA, they are virtually the same and are often interchangable becuase they almost do the exact same things on the court.

[air gordon]

I can't agree with you, Matthew, about the Hornets going nowhere.

Making the playoffs would be great for the New Orleans franchise and their fans, even if they don't make it past the 1st round. The franchise is lacking stability and an identity after trading the team's best players for basically peanuts. This team is in a big transition/rebuilding period. For them to make the playoffs would be a great accomplishment

Maybe if we were talking about a middling team that is perenially good enough to avoid the lottery but bad enough to not make it past the 1st round... You could definitely say that team is going nowhere

[Matthew]

When I say they aren't going anywhere, I'm reffering to this season. Anyone who thinks they are going to do anything in the playoffs are mistaken. This isn't the equivilent of Steve Nash in Pheonix last season. But lets compare rookie point guards who helped their team immediately:
Stephon Marbury
Anfernee Hardaway
Jason Kidd

I wonder how many of these guys were all stars in their first season? Not one of them, so what makes Paul unique? Sure the New Orleans thing is a nice story, but lets not comprimise the integrity of the ASG but saying Paul should be there and just accepting that Carmelo won't be. Melo has had one of the better seasons so far in the NBA this year and yet for some reason, he's been ignorned.

Let's just keep it all in perspective.

[air gordon]

k thanks for clearing that up