Move Over, Kobe...Prince is in Da House!!!

[Andrew]

That may be the case. But the issue the opposing coach had with the performance, the criticism that was raised is that what they did was bad sportsmanship and that it was the wrong thing to do "against a team like (theirs)". Essentially they got beaten badly and one of their opponents had a huge, record-setting game and their coach badmouths the achievement and the opposition, saying that Prince "didn't earn" the milestone and calling it bad sportsmanship.

That's being a sore loser and that's bad sportsmanship.

We can certainly find fault in the coach's decision to let her go for the record from the team perspective. But not for the reasons Vera Springer is citing.

[[L3]1101]

I see your point Andrew, and it is very true. It was a great performance. 54/60 FG is pretty amazing. And we shouldn't take that away from her. It's is a milestone, no matter how you look at it.

[J@3]

I would've body slammed her through the hoop after she hit 50, none of that shit in my house

I remember a few years ago our high school team played a fairly garbage team, we were virtually an entire rep team minus two players... they beat us by 15, their top scorer had 78 and it turns out played for the Australian under 18 team... he torched us, didn't ball hog, never missed and just destroyed our D whenever he wanted to. I think a performance like that is more impressive than someone deliberately going for a milestone score, because if he wanted to score 100 or his teammates just gave him the ball every trip down by default he definitely would've.

He didn't stop scoring until 4 minutes from the end of the game, where he tried to dunk on me and I almost separated his head from the rest of his body with my arm.

[Andrew]

That's what I feel Ms Springer is doing, perhaps inadvertently. Don't get me wrong, there are certainly problems with the approach Grezinsky used as far as his own team is concerned, I agree with you there. But Springer's only beef seems to be that her team got beaten badly.

[dada]

Maybe Ms Springer could have coached her team a little better to avoid this humiliating experience. I agree with Andrew, she just sounds like a sore loser because she was on the losing end. She is saying that "It was like picking on a handicapped person" but if the team is that bad then she should go play in a handicapped league or something.

[cyanide]

their top scorer had 78...He didn't stop scoring until 4 minutes from the end of the game, where he tried to dunk on me and I almost separated his head from the rest of his body with my arm.

You go Jae!

[Num33Baller]

She is saying that "It was like picking on a handicapped person" but if the team is that bad then she should go play in a handicapped league or something.

Like I said.... they should be in a lower division if their whole team gets outscored times 3 by one player.

[Matt]

ths record is bullshit though. Obviously there is something wrong with the competition if such a scoreline can happen. I'm not even the slightest bit impressed, it wasn't even close.

[air gordon]

High school is a very fundamental level. These kids only started learning, not playing, basketball. Notice there's a difference in playing basketball and learning it. At this level the coaches need to teach them the fundamental concept of basketball and among many things, basketball is a team sport. Coaches need to reinforce that concept.

as well as sportsmanship

i side with L3- this is high school sporting event and this game wasn't even a high school championship game.

I wonder what happens next time these 2 teams face each other...

back in high school- we weren't even allowed to swear or celebrate excessively during a game - on the field/coach or on the bench. Otherwise- the following practice our coaches would run us into the ground

I remember one time being on the wrong side of a high school 42-0 football game. the game's outcome was decided heading into the 4th quarter, yet the other team's 1st team players were still in and they even had the audacity to run some trick plays.

never once have I heard my coach swear until that game. I still remember it now: "That motherfucker still has his starters in! God damnit! And look at that, a fucking double reverse!"

He was so angry that after the game we skipped shaking the opposing players/coaches hands and went straight to the bus ride home where our coaches were still steaming

[Andrew]

I don't see how winning convincingly is bad sportsmanship, though taunting/showboating in such a situation is a different story. Springer is upset that her team got beaten badly and she's badmouthing the opposition anyway she can. She's the one showing poor sportsmanship. There's no rule that you need to bring your best players out of the game if it's already decided.

Like I said, if that game was a display poor sportsmanship then what happened in Wilt's 100 point game was poor sportsmanship and leaving Kobe in to get 81 when he'd already brought them back and sealed the win likewise.

[air gordon]

winning convincingly and completely obliterating your opposition are 2 different things. You earlier mentioned that "But some of the basic principles of competition hold true for both levels of the game". This is definitley not one of them.

Actually there is an unwritten rule that you need to bring your best players out of the game if it's already decided. You see it at every level of sports, even at the professional level- many teams put in their scrubs when a game is decided. It's done out of class & respect for your opponent. Bryant stayed in to get those extra points but only a few minutes remained.

The Bulls would even fine Stacey King for firing 3's at the end of blowouts. Last year the T'Wolves were very upset that Gordon shot/and made an uncontested jumper in a game that was already decided. Skiles later had to apologize


Just because the coach sees it fit to leave in the girl doesn't mean it was the right thing

As L3 pointed out- this is high school sports- not professional sports. High school sports is about discipline, builds character, teaches the fundamentals of the game. Yes there is competiveness involved but nowhere near the degree of professional sports. though some parents and i guess some others can't grasp this concept

maybe I'm wrong and or our upbringings are different.

[Num33Baller]

The Bulls would even fine Stacey King for firing 3's at the end of blowouts.

Sorry but I gotta call bullshit on that.


Stacey King only shot 21 3pt shots his whole career, including Playoffs.

[air gordon]

LOL Bullshit? Deducting that Stacey King wasn't fined because his total 3pt shot attempts in his career was only 21 is bullshit.

Did you see the games like I did???

Maybe you should go back and watch those games and see King shoot those 3's at the end of games when the song "another one bites the dust" plays. The announcers would say "that should draw another fine by the team" and then read in the Chicago Tribune Sports section that King was indeed fined for his 3pt attempt for that given game

[Andrew]

Actually there is an unwritten rule that you need to bring your best players out of the game if it's already decided. You see it at every level of sports, even at the professional level- many teams put in their scrubs when a game is decided. It's done out of class & respect for your opponent. Bryant stayed in to get those extra points but only a few minutes remained.

I would've thought it was more out of letting the scrubs have a chance to play and giving the main guys a rest/not taking a chance of getting them injured when the game is decided rather than a sign of respect for the opponent. One might suggest that sending your scrubs in is just as big a slap in the face, as it's saying you're declaring victory and you don't need your best guys in there the rest of the way.

The Bulls would even fine Stacey King for firing 3's at the end of blowouts. Last year the T'Wolves were very upset that Gordon shot/and made an uncontested jumper in a game that was already decided. Skiles later had to apologize

See, I think that's ridiculous. "How dare you beat us by a slightly larger margin?" I think that's bad sportsmanship, being a sore loser. I don't think you should have to apologise for something like that; what is there to apologise for? Playing the game? Being competitive?

As L3 pointed out- this is high school sports- not professional sports. High school sports is about discipline, builds character, teaches the fundamentals of the game. Yes there is competiveness involved but nowhere near the degree of professional sports. though some parents and i guess some others can't grasp this concept

Agreed. But Springer isn't talking about any of that. Her only beef is that she got beaten badly. Her criticisms are based on the fact her team was beaten and embarrassed, not that it was bad for Prince's team.

maybe I'm wrong and or our upbringings are different.

I guess we do have different ideas about what constitutes poor behaviour in those situations. I do agree that showboating and whatnot is inappropriate and bad sportsmanship.

[air gordon]

I would've thought it was more out of letting the scrubs have a chance to play and giving the main guys a rest/not taking a chance of getting them injured when the game is decided rather than a sign of respect for the opponent.

resting the guys, playing others are also a factor. And you'll see it time and time again opposing coaches/players get upset if their opponent will leave their starters in on a blowout (unless he's trying to get a player in shape)

One might suggest that sending your scrubs in is just as big a slap in the face, as it's saying you're declaring victory and you don't need your best guys in there the rest of the way...

That is just silly playing Devil's advocate. When both teams put in their scrubs, both coaches are mutually agreeing the contest is decided and let's get the game over with. I haven't seen many instances where a coach has gotten upset because the other team put in their scrubs late in a blowout loss. Have you?

See, I think that's ridiculous. "How dare you beat us by a slightly larger margin?" I think that's bad sportsmanship, being a sore loser. I don't think you should have to apologise for something like that; what is there to apologise for? Playing the game? Being competitive?

What exactly is competitive about running up the score on an already decided contest?! I could understand if King is making shots while the opposition is guarding him. But these instances were happening when everyone's just waiting for the game to end/shaking the opposition's hands yet this punk is jacking up 3's?! I think only in college football running up the score is not frowned upon. But you see less of that now since the BCS system was instituted.

Or maybe I'm just wrong and so are most of the coaches/players who have been doing this long as i could remember watching competitive sports.

Agreed. But Springer isn't talking about any of that. Her only beef is that she got beaten badly. Her criticisms are based on the fact her team was beaten and embarrassed, not that it was bad for Prince's team.

that is why i'm taking up this issue with you since you are one saying it's not poor sportsmanship to run up the score/leave your starters in

[Moop_Moop]

To say that winning convincingly is what this game was is as much of a misjudgement as saying that Shaq can light it up from downtown. Winning convincingly is going out late in a close game and dominating when it matters, not leaving in your best player who presumably didn't know she had 100+ points (how hard could it be to figure out after you've taken just about every one of the team's shots?) just so she could further butter up her personal statistics. I think it's as wrong as wrong is on the coache's part. As much as I try to think of it as an outstanding performance, it seems shaded by the fact that they won 131-32!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just seem to have a different opinion than some of the people who have posted before me. It can be as big a milestone as you want, but at the end of the day, it's setting the wrong example.

[Andrew]

resting the guys, playing others are also a factor. And you'll see it time and time again opposing coaches/players get upset if their opponent will leave their starters in on a blowout (unless he's trying to get a player in shape)

Well with that in mind, would you call Wilt's 100 point game bad sportsmanship? After all the game was in hand, the Warriors kept fouling and feeding the ball to Wilt on each play.

That is just silly playing Devil's advocate. When both teams put in their scrubs, both coaches are mutually agreeing the contest is decided and let's get the game over with. I haven't seen many instances where a coach has gotten upset because the other team put in their scrubs late in a blowout loss. Have you?

No I haven't. I was merely offering another perspective on it.

What exactly is competitive about running up the score on an already decided contest?! I could understand if King is making shots while the opposition is guarding him. But these instances were happening when everyone's just waiting for the game to end/shaking the opposition's hands yet this punk is jacking up 3's?! I think only in college football running up the score is not frowned upon. But you see less of that now since the BCS system was instituted.

Competitive might have been the wrong word to use. But I don't see what's wrong about playing up until the final buzzer. The scrubs still keep playing the game "properly" too.

Or maybe I'm just wrong and so are most of the coaches/players who have been doing this long as i could remember watching competitive sports.

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just suggesting it's not wrong to keep playing until the final buzzer.

that is why i'm taking up this issue with you since you are one saying it's not poor sportsmanship to run up the score/leave your starters in

If anything I think it's worse sportsmanship to rip into an opposing team after they've beaten you badly, attempt to diminish an achievement and refuse to give credit where credit is due. Some might say refusing to shake hands with an opponent is also bad sportsmanship, though I was guilty of that a few times when I played basketball in the junior leagues so I understand where you're coming from there.

[Andrew]

To say that winning convincingly is what this game was is as much of a misjudgement as saying that Shaq can light it up from downtown. Winning convincingly is going out late in a close game and dominating when it matters, not leaving in your best player who presumably didn't know she had 100+ points (how hard could it be to figure out after you've taken just about every one of the team's shots?) just so she could further butter up her personal statistics. I think it's as wrong as wrong is on the coache's part. As much as I try to think of it as an outstanding performance, it seems shaded by the fact that they won 131-32!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just seem to have a different opinion than some of the people who have posted before me. It can be as big a milestone as you want, but at the end of the day, it's setting the wrong example.

I think by definition, a 131-32 scoreline is winning convincingly no matter how the result came about.

[Moop_Moop]

To say that winning convincingly is what this game was is as much of a misjudgement as saying that Shaq can light it up from downtown. Winning convincingly is going out late in a close game and dominating when it matters, not leaving in your best player who presumably didn't know she had 100+ points (how hard could it be to figure out after you've taken just about every one of the team's shots?) just so she could further butter up her personal statistics. I think it's as wrong as wrong is on the coache's part. As much as I try to think of it as an outstanding performance, it seems shaded by the fact that they won 131-32!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just seem to have a different opinion than some of the people who have posted before me. It can be as big a milestone as you want, but at the end of the day, it's setting the wrong example.

I think by definition, a 131-32 scoreline is winning convincingly no matter how the result came about.

Well yeah, if you take the word litterally. Okay, let me reevaluate what I said. They won convincingly the wrong way.

[Andrew]

So if the scoring had been more evenly distributed, they would have won convincingly the correct way?

[Moop_Moop]

So if the scoring had been more evenly distributed, they would have won convincingly the correct way?

No, that isn't what I meant. You aren't winning convincingly if you're obviously that much better than the opposing team. That win doesn't convince me of anything other than that they have no respect or mercy .

[Andrew]

That's not the incorrect way though. By defeating a team by a large margin - by winning convincingly - you're showing everyone, "convincing" everyone that you were without a doubt the better team on the night. As far as respect is concerned, what are they supposed to do, hold back and not beat them by so much? Allow them to stay in the game?

[Cable]

It was a convincing win, but not a good way to win.

Andrew I think you need to put yourself into Prince's teammates' shoes. How would you like it if you were up by 50, with very little chance of losing, yet you're still on the bench like always, watching your teammate score 100+ points? The other team is probably not trying very hard at this point, and you've seen little action this season behind Ms. Prince, yet you're still on the bench. Wouldn't that make you upset?

I think the idea Springer is trying to convey is that when you're up by 50+, keeping your star player in and having her score 100+ is taunting the other team. If Prince were a real team player or even a kind person, she should have wanted to come out of the game when it was almost certain they would win, which would probably be at half time and then she would not even have thought about the record.

[Moop_Moop]

That's not the incorrect way though. By defeating a team by a large margin - by winning convincingly - you're showing everyone, "convincing" everyone that you were without a doubt the better team on the night. As far as respect is concerned, what are they supposed to do, hold back and not beat them by so much? Allow them to stay in the game?

As far as respect is concerned, the coach should not have left his, quite obviously, best player in the game so she could use the other team as a stepping stone for a personal record.

[air gordon]

Forget this convincing argument. If you feel that the starters should have been in there when the lead was up to 30pts to preserve the lead, that is sure is something...

Well with that in mind, would you call Wilt's 100 point game bad sportsmanship? After all the game was in hand, the Warriors kept fouling and feeding the ball to Wilt on each play.

Poor sporsmanship is leaving that girl in a HIGH SCHOOL game when the winning team is winning by ALMOST 100 POINTS. I've already given my opinion about comparing high school sports to professional sports

Competitive might have been the wrong word to use. But I don't see what's wrong about playing up until the final buzzer. The scrubs still keep playing the game "properly" too.

There's nothing wrong with scrubs playing out the game "properly". I'm not disputing that. I'm talking about King launching a 3pter when basically everyone is walking off the court in the dying seconds of a blowout game. That's wrong and I never heard anything about King or the Players association appealing the fines he received.

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just suggesting it's not wrong to keep playing until the final buzzer.

Does that include leaving in your starters all the way to the end even when the lead is well over 50pts???