Did anyone see....

[dada]

Uh, becuase he isnt Michael Jordan? Isn't it funny, when Kobe was clutch (like game 4 of the 2000 finals) he was clutch, so he was criticised for trying to be like mike. Then when Lebron struggled in late game situations, he gets criticised for not being like mike?

No body will ever be as good as mike ..atleast not according to the general jaded fanbase. Kobe could win 3 more championships and average 36ppg for the next 3 years and he still wouldnt be as good as mike. We'll hear how the league is different now..blah blah..same goes for bron bron..or anyone else with some talent.

I agree on you with that. All the NBA old-timers sometimes tend to believe that the NBA was toughest in their playing days. I keep on hearing people say how if hand checking wasnt around in Jordan's days then he would have averaged like 50 a game. I dont agree with them the slightest bit. Its not even like we dont see it today, granted it is called every now and then. If players like Lebron, Kobe and A.I. played back then they would still be putting up huge numbers.

I am tired of hearing how players today get points easily. If that was the case then the league average would be like 125 ppg.

[dada]

Until someone comes into the league and averages 50 points per game, and a triple double, and wins a championship every year he is in the league, I'll say that guy is better than Mike.

Why? Because MJ did that right?

[maes]

No body will ever be as good as mike ..atleast not according to the general jaded fanbase. Kobe could win 3 more championships and average 36ppg for the next 3 years and he still wouldnt be as good as mike. We'll hear how the league is different now..blah blah..same goes for bron bron..or anyone else with some talent.

Kobe win 3 more championships? I remember a certain 300 lb 7' center winning those championships, not Kobe. Kobe so far has won championships as a secondary player, and quite frankly Robert Horry has him beat out in # of rings in that role.

Until Kobe wins some championships while HE is the main man on the team, forget about Jordan comparisons, his best comparison is Kareem Abdul Jabbar. And immensely talented (perhaps MOST talented) scorer at his position but didn't quite have the leadership to carry a team to a dynasty.

Kobe needs to win some rings with his team, so in a way it's a good thing he forced Shaq out, he'll never be known as anything other than Kareem as long as Shaq kept driving the LA bus.

Not that Kareem is a bad thing, he was amazing.

[dada]

No body will ever be as good as mike ..atleast not according to the general jaded fanbase. Kobe could win 3 more championships and average 36ppg for the next 3 years and he still wouldnt be as good as mike. We'll hear how the league is different now..blah blah..same goes for bron bron..or anyone else with some talent.

Kobe win 3 more championships? I remember a certain 300 lb 7' center winning those championships, not Kobe. Kobe so far has won championships as a secondary player, and quite frankly Robert Horry has him beat out in # of rings in that role.

Until Kobe wins some championships while HE is the main man on the team, forget about Jordan comparisons, his best comparison is Kareem Abdul Jabbar. And immensely talented (perhaps MOST talented) scorer at his position but didn't quite have the leadership to carry a team to a dynasty.

Kobe needs to win some rings with his team, so in a way it's a good thing he forced Shaq out, he'll never be known as anything other than Kareem as long as Shaq kept driving the LA bus.

Not that Kareem is a bad thing, he was amazing.

I guess Shaq was the one producing big-time at the end of games so he's the only one to deserves credit for the championships. He scored all the points, had all the rebounds, assists, steals etc etc He was the only man on the court the entire season.

I am tired of hearing people trying to discredit the contribution of Kobe to the Lakers championship run. Only a fool would believe that Shaq could have won it without Kobe, and Kobe could have won it without Shaq. Last I checked neither of them have not won anything significant without each other. At this point, at least Kobe has time on his side.
I guess we should also discredit Pippens contribution to the Bulls championship run because Jordan must have won a crap load of rings without him.

[skateballer]

Did anyone see LeBron James airball a free throw in the 4th quarter against the Pacers?

I think he missed both then went off smiling.

...and they call him the next Michael Jordan

[Num33Baller]

Only a fool would believe that Shaq could have won it without Kobe, and Kobe could have won it without Shaq.

Shaq took a team to the finals without Kobe. I haven't seen Kobe take a team to the finals without Shaq yet.

[J@3]

Shaq had Wade, Kobe had Mihm.

[Matt]

ECF, not THE FINALS!

[Amphatoast]

ECF, not THE FINALS!

1994-95 shaq and penny led the magic to the finals only to get swept by the rockets

[Andrew]

No body will ever be as good as mike ..atleast not according to the general jaded fanbase. Kobe could win 3 more championships and average 36ppg for the next 3 years and he still wouldnt be as good as mike. We'll hear how the league is different now..blah blah..same goes for bron bron..or anyone else with some talent.

That's a bit of a cop out though, dismissing any criticism on the basis that anyone that doesn't believe today's game is vastly superior or the talent pool is just as good is jaded and bitter. That's not to say that isn't true in some cases but such comments are not without basis.

And to be fair, a lot of fans these days have a similar bias, just on the other side of the coin.

I keep on hearing people say how if hand checking wasnt around in Jordan's days then he would have averaged like 50 a game. I dont agree with them the slightest bit. Its not even like we dont see it today, granted it is called every now and then. If players like Lebron, Kobe and A.I. played back then they would still be putting up huge numbers.

50's definitely an exaggeration. But it's all about opportunity. Just out of interest dada, were you around for the 90s/Jordan in his prime? I do feel you're selling the decade a bit short but I do agree that older fans are (and certainly do) make some exaggerations. But in all objectiveness there is an element of truth to some of the things that have been said.

[King James #23]

MJ>Kobe>LeBron

[J@3]

50's definitely an exaggeration. But it's all about opportunity. Just out of interest dada, were you around for the 90s/Jordan in his prime? I do feel you're selling the decade a bit short but I do agree that older fans are (and certainly do) make some exaggerations. But in all objectiveness there is an element of truth to some of the things that have been said.

The only problem I have with the whole hand-checking argument is that I don't think MJ would've used the lack of hand checking to score another 20ppg. I don't think it's humanly possible, nor do I think it would've been the best thing for the team.

I have to admit, I didn't really follow MJ alot back in the 90's. There were so many other great players around I got caught up in the David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp's of the World. Definitely a great era.

[Axel]

I have to admit, I didn't really follow MJ alot back in the 90's. There were so many other great players around I got caught up in the David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp's of the World. Definitely a great era.

Hakeem Olajuwon, Malone & Stockton, Gary Payton.... many others... too bad I didn't really start following the NBA till after their prime.

[dada]

Only a fool would believe that Shaq could have won it without Kobe, and Kobe could have won it without Shaq.

Shaq took a team to the finals without Kobe. I haven't seen Kobe take a team to the finals without Shaq yet.

And your point? Did he win it?...I dont think so. I remember him getting swept out of the building.

When he went there with Kobe later what happened?

[Axel]

And your point? Did he win it?...I dont think so. I remember him getting swept out of the building.

Glad to see your memory still works...

[dada]

I keep on hearing people say how if hand checking wasnt around in Jordan's days then he would have averaged like 50 a game. I dont agree with them the slightest bit. Its not even like we dont see it today, granted it is called every now and then. If players like Lebron, Kobe and A.I. played back then they would still be putting up huge numbers.

50's definitely an exaggeration. But it's all about opportunity. Just out of interest dada, were you around for the 90s/Jordan in his prime? I do feel you're selling the decade a bit short but I do agree that older fans are (and certainly do) make some exaggerations. But in all objectiveness there is an element of truth to some of the things that have been said.

I really feel that people are just unwilling to accept that there are athletes out there that are potentially deserving of similar praise as players like MJ, Magic etc. The reason I say potentially is because their careers arent over yet. People were so awe struck by the brilliance of these past players that when they retired they just came to the conclusion that players of their caliber only come around once every generation. Then came freaks like Kobe who dare to threaten MJs throne as king. Accordingly people take offense. I am in no way saying at this stage in his career that Kobe has surpassed Jordan, but its at a point where no matter what he does on the court from this point forward, he will be scrutinized much harsher and given less credit for his achievements. If he scores a 100 I guarantee he will be immortalized as the most selfish player in NBA history, and not the most prolific scorer. Lebron scores 50 and people sing praises. Kobe scores 62 and there are articles the next day about how much he hogs the ball. Nobody goes around saying Wilt is selfish for scoring 50 a game, but Kobe is scoring 35 and He is the biggest ballhog in the history of basketball. I just believe is giving credit where credit is due.

The 80s was great.
The 90s was spectacular.
The 2000s(?) should not be disregarded.

[Num33Baller]

ECF, not THE FINALS!

1994-95 shaq and penny led the magic to the finals only to get swept by the rockets

At least someone knows what I'm talking about.

Only a fool would believe that Shaq could have won it without Kobe, and Kobe could have won it without Shaq.

Shaq took a team to the finals without Kobe. I haven't seen Kobe take a team to the finals without Shaq yet.

And your point? Did he win it?...I dont think so. I remember him getting swept out of the building.

When he went there with Kobe later what happened?

My point is Shaq got his team to the finals. Kobe hasn't and most likely won't.

You can argue that Shaq had penny (who averaged 20.9ppg that year...), but I'll counter that Kobe has odom.

Shaq took his team to the finals with a sophomore. Kobe has a veteren sidekick, and couldn't get to the playoffs last year, and I doubt they will get out of the first round this year, if they even get a bearth.

[J@3]

You can counter that Kobe has Odom, but Odom's been relatively useless. He's boosted his stats a bit this season, but has also single handedly lost a couple of games via stupid decisions.

[Andrew]

The only problem I have with the whole hand-checking argument is that I don't think MJ would've used the lack of hand checking to score another 20ppg. I don't think it's humanly possible, nor do I think it would've been the best thing for the team.

Absolutely. With the pace of the game, the triangle in effect and a player like Pippen on the team he certainly wouldn't have had the opportunity, if nothing else.

I am in no way saying at this stage in his career that Kobe has surpassed Jordan, but its at a point where no matter what he does on the court from this point forward, he will be scrutinized much harsher and given less credit for his achievements.

Kobe scores 62 and there are articles the next day about how much he hogs the ball. Nobody goes around saying Wilt is selfish for scoring 50 a game, but Kobe is scoring 35 and He is the biggest ballhog in the history of basketball.

I do agree there, the same thing happened with Michael Jordan before him. It's one thing I miss about the league actually, hearing positives things that weren't instantly and cynically shot down. Perhaps it's childish nostalgia but it was nice to actually marvel at players' accomplishments without breaking everything down and turning something exciting into "the truth"...or at least one idea of what the truth actually is.

But some of that Kobe brings upon himself, perhaps not intentionally but these days it comes with the territory. People want to see him but they also want to see him in the villan's role. It's interesting how he's both popular and hated all at once. He'll garner a lot of votes for the All-Star game because people also want to see him fall.

[dada]

You can argue that Shaq had penny (who averaged 20.9ppg that year...), but I'll counter that Kobe has odom.

Shaq took his team to the finals with a sophomore. Kobe has a veteren sidekick, and couldn't get to the playoffs last year, and I doubt they will get out of the first round this year, if they even get a bearth.

Firstly, what exactly is a bearth?

........................

Lamar Odom? Lamar "One Playoff Appearance" Odom? Lamar "One Winning Season" Odom? Are you kidding me? You are comparing Odom to Penny in his days?

Have you even looked at the roster of both teams? Are you not going to count Nick Anderson, or superior role players like Scott Skiles and Dennis Scott?


More and more I am lead to believe that I am wasting my time replying to your messages.

[Num33Baller]

You can argue that Shaq had penny (who averaged 20.9ppg that year...), but I'll counter that Kobe has odom.

Shaq took his team to the finals with a sophomore. Kobe has a veteren sidekick, and couldn't get to the playoffs last year, and I doubt they will get out of the first round this year, if they even get a bearth.

Firstly, what exactly is a bearth?

........................

Lamar Odom? Lamar "One Playoff Appearance" Odom? Lamar "One Winning Season" Odom? Are you kidding me? You are comparing Odom to Penny in his days?

Have you even looked at the roster of both teams? Are you not going to count Nick Anderson, or superior role players like Scott Skiles and Dennis Scott?


More and more I am lead to believe that I am wasting my time replying to your messages.

Playoff Birth. Sorry.


Nick averaged 15ppg that year. Dennis Scott 13. And I think scott skiles played for washington 94-95. Although I'm not certain.

If you combine Lamar and Odom's PPG, you get about the same as Shaq and Penny's. You gotta remember shaq and penny were fresh out of college... penny was a sophomore in the NBA, and shaq was in his third year.

You have parker gettin 12ppg for the lakers and mihm getting 10.5


My point is Shaq took his team (orlando) to the finals. Kobe hasn't taken his team (the post shaq lakers) out of the first round.

[dada]

If you combine Lamar and Odom's PPG, you get about the same as Shaq and Penny's.

huh? Lamar and Odom?

And I think scott skiles played for washington 94-95. Although I'm not certain.

You are right, Skiles wasnt there. Let me substitute that with Horace Grant or Brian Shaw.


I would love to see Shaq take the bunch Kobe has this season, or last season as a matter of fact, to the Finals.....not happening.

[Num33Baller]

If you combine Lamar and Odom's PPG, you get about the same as Shaq and Penny's.

huh? Lamar and Odom?

And I think scott skiles played for washington 94-95. Although I'm not certain.

You are right, Skiles wasnt there. Let me substitute that with Horace Grant or Brian Shaw.


I would love to see Shaq take the bunch Kobe has this season, or last season as a matter of fact, to the Finals.....not happening.

Lamar and Kobe.

Grant or shaw? Then I can throw in Kwame or deaven george...

The point is, shaq got his team to the finals. Kobe hasn't gotten his team to the playoffs.

[dada]

If you combine Lamar and Odom's PPG, you get about the same as Shaq and Penny's.

huh? Lamar and Odom?

And I think scott skiles played for washington 94-95. Although I'm not certain.

You are right, Skiles wasnt there. Let me substitute that with Horace Grant or Brian Shaw.


I would love to see Shaq take the bunch Kobe has this season, or last season as a matter of fact, to the Finals.....not happening.

Lamar and Kobe.

Grant or shaw? Then I can throw in Kwame or deaven george...

The point is, shaq got his team to the finals. Kobe hasn't gotten his team to the playoffs.

I give up.

[Cable]

*Berth


I had to do it.