Bogut-Watch

[SnitchDevil]

Lol I grew quite attached to it. All of his biggest moments as a rookie have included the mask

Then i reckon he should do a Lucious Harris.

[J@3]

Good to see some statistical consistancy from Bogut. Those games where he'd have 13/9 then follow it up with 4/3 are starting to phase out which is nice.

[Andrew]

Also good to see his minutes up in the 30s.

[Fenix]

I'd really want to slide him back to centre. I don't believe he really has future at the PF with his limited athleticism. He'd be great if you would pair him with a low post PF and position him at the high post, where his passing skills would really show their worth. IMHO, he could very well be a rich version of Vlade (I mention him just because he's a white C who can pass) and that would be great in this centerless league. I mean, who would be better than him? He has that killer instinct that Yao doesn't have, Amare will probably turn back to his PF roots and Shaq is going to drown in his own fat (he's ooooold). God, I miss the good old times. I can't wait for Oden to come.

[J@3]

I actually agree with you, he should be playing C... at least on D because he can't keep up with alot of the PF's, especially perimeter based guys. I don't think his athletisism is limited but as I said before as a PF he's average to poor athletically but as a C he's fine. This whole Magloire thing probably wasn't the greatest idea in the World.

[Fenix]

Magloire has his price as a true C in this league. If Golden State doesn't trade Diogu for Artest straight up, I would consider trading Magloire for him (or sending him to Indiana in a three way trade). While he doesn't offer you much size, he does give you a true PF with amazing low post skills, who perfectly complements Bogut. But there would still be a problem of defending bigger, more athletic PFs. I mean, my point is: Magloire should be traded. He is averaging a near double double (10/10), he's a true C, a good citizen and his contract is expiring. He's bound to be overpaid when he becomes a free agent, so why would you trade him for young guys with potential (and with 3 or 4 years left on their rookie contracts) who would be a better fit for your team?

[Vik]

Go look up the thread in which that AVI was shown, you'll note it's Malone and not Shaq. Kids these days, dumb as they come.

Do you guys fall on your head right after you pop out of your mom's cunts? Has the doc stopped cradling the kids these days?

I couldn't find Avi thread but i found the gif thread: http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic30773-0-asc-0.php

Malone was there, but Kobe didn't dunked on Malone, indeed it was Shaq.

Sorry for off.

[J@3]

Bogut has 10 points and 7 rebounds in the 3rd quarter against the Cavs

[Avrah3]

Jae do you listen to the Bucks games via nba.com?

[J@3]

Nope. I download them when I can, but mainly I just keep up via RealGM and Yahoo GameChannel.

[Andrew]

Slightly off-topic but since it came up, I've found Yahoo!'s coverage is a lot better than Courtside Live @ NBA.com (I believe GameChannel is the old script that NBA.com used to use), at least in the absence of the Flash Courtside.

[J@3]

Bogut is going nuts... 14 (6/7) points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 0 turnovers and 1 foul in 14 minutes.

[J@3]

Finished up with 18 points (7/8), 17 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks. Seems to have barely seen the ball from the 3rd quarter onwards, yet more brilliant coaching strategy from Terry Stotts.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

he had a fine game tonight... 18 points, 17 rebounds, 5 assists and 7/8 Fgs. Plus the Bucks won on a TJ Ford basket with 15 seconds to go. The little guy grabbed 10 rebounds.

[The X]

he had 12 & 8 in the 1st quarter alone....Bobcats didn't Okafor, May or Ely....why not go to Bogut more?!? he only had 1 turnover as well, whereas the rest of the team was coughing it up like a bar of soap in prison....

still great numbers, imagine if he got more shots....

[Fresh8]

Its gotten a bit quiet in here!

Well, here's an interesting read nonetheless...

Bogut not quite complete player, yet

So far, so good.

With newcomers Bobby Simmons, Jamaal Magloire, the return of T. J. Ford and the NBA's top draftee, Andrew Bogut, the Bucks are miles ahead of last year's dismal 30-52 finish.
Before Wednesday's grueling 106-102 overtime loss in Detroit, the rookie's numbers were certainly respectable: 9.2 ppg, 7.9 rebounds, 2.1 assists and a field goal percentage of 54.2.

But is respectable good enough for a No. 1 pick? Does Bogut have the makings to become a franchise player? Will he turn out to be another white hopeless like Danny Ferry? Or, have the Bucks wasted a once-in-a-generation draft pick, and lavish amounts of money, on a rookie who's destined to be nothing more than a role player?

With nearly half a season under his belt, it's time to scrutinize Bogut's game. And what better test for any player's skills, attitude, maturity and potential than going noggin-to-noggin against Rasheed Wallace and the Pistons?

MIN FG 3FG FT REB A ST BS TO PTS
Bogut 45 5-7 0-0 4-6 6 3 1 2 2 14

The best part of Bogut's game is his pivot play. Here's what happened when he was stationed down low:

The Bucks went to Bogut on their very first possession of the game, but a lame entry pass by Ford was stolen by Rip Hamilton — and the rook never touched the ball.

Bogut failed to meet the next incoming pass, and the ball was deflected out of bounds.

Two times in succession, Bogut received the ball on the right box, made tight spins into the middle and sank lefty hooks over Rasheed Wallace's defense. Like R. Wallace, Bogut's release was too high for his shot to be blocked.

In the second half, Bogut posted Antonio McDyess and spun a neat right-handed jump hook through the twine.

Bogut dropped a nifty pass to Ford cutting along the baseline, but Ford missed the ensuing layup.

On his last venture in the low-post, Bogut executed several slow dribbles against McDyess but was unable to come up with a shot. His subsequent pass to the perimeter gained no advantage for the Bucks.
By the end of the season, Bogut will most likely evolve into Milwaukee's most effective low-post presence (he's already more reliable than Magloire). But to ensure his development, Bogut needs more touches down low.

Bogut's post-up game merits a B+.

Bogut moves fairly well without the ball. Taking full advantage of a drive-and-dish by Mo Williams, Bogut came up with a power dunk. He also completed an elegant screen/roll (S/R) by slipping to the basket, drawing a foul and bagging his two free throws. Moreover, Bogut hustled to fill a lane with his long, gangly strides during a first-quarter fast break — grabbing a pass, throwing his body into Rasheed Wallace, taking a big hit and converting the layup — but missing the consequent foul.

Bogut, likewise, hustled to trail another break, but Williams gave him the ball at the wrong time and in the wrong place — two dribbles from the hoop, in a crowd, and with no available space for a big man to put the ball on the floor. (In running situations, guards should only pass to bigs when they can shoot without having to dribble). And, after catching a pass as he lumbered along the baseline, Bogut put up a weak reverse underhanded-layup that was easily blocked by Rasheed Wallace.

For his off-the-ball movement, Bogut gets a solid B.

On numerous occasions, Bogut was stationed at the high post, where he had three functions: Throwing reversal passes, handing off to a curling Redd and setting strong-side screens. For the most part, he was able to seal off his defender well enough to present a good target — he even drew a foul as Rasheed Wallace tried to attack an incoming pass. (Only once did Rasheed manage to deny Bogut the ball up high.)

Bogut's reversal passes were mostly well-done, and his handoffs to Redd were impeccable. But Bogut's screens were unsatisfactory: He rarely squared up to the screenee, and he was often too quick to slip the screen and roll to the basket. In all, Bogut set only one truly effective screen.

His high-post play rates a C-.

Bogut has certainly mastered the intricacies of the Bucks' offense. Indeed, it was the rookie who frequently waved several of his confused teammates through, over, back and/or forward. Throughout the game, Bogut was never out of position when the Bucks had possession.

Bogut gets an A for executing Milwaukee's offensive sets.

Every free throw is a mini adventure. Bogut's problem is that he begins his shooting motion with the ball held at thigh level. This results in too much ball movement before the shot is released, which, in turn, means that the ball isn't always released from the same spot.

Also, Bogut's hand mechanics are a bit too tight, and his wrist is too snappish. Furthermore, he grimaces when he lets his shot loose, a movement that tightens his face, neck and shoulders and increases his tendency to pull too hard on the ball.

From the stripe, Bogut should be a B student, but winds up with only a C-.


Andrew Bogut is a liability on defense. (Allen Einstein/NBAE / Getty Images)

A player's ability to rebound depends on many factors — strength, positioning, timing, hops, anticipation and soft hands. Bogut is strong enough — although, because he sometimes stands too erect, McDyess and R. Wallace were able to muscle him out of position in the battle of the boards. His ability to establish good position is also handicapped by his lack of quick lateral movement. His elevation is OK, but he's slow off the floorboards. Bogut's ability to anticipate which way a missed shot will bounce is average at best but will get better. And Bogut's hands are his downfall.

Yes, his grip is powerful, but he had trouble picking up shot-hop passes, low-bouncing loose balls, and sharply-down-angled rebounds. Whenever Bogut attacks a ball that head-high or higher, he usually hauls it in. Conversely, when the ball is shoulder-level or lower, he has difficulty finding and maintaining the handle. (He was stripped in a critical OT play when he caught a pass from Williams, but brought the ball down to his waist as he prepared to shoot.) Good hands up, bad hands down.

Slow hands, a lack of flexibility in the middle of his body, and his lack of quickness off his feet add up to a rebounding grade of C-.

Playing NBA defense is a complicated skill that youngsters always struggle to master — and Bogut is no exception. Sure, he rotated well enough to block a pair of shots put up by Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. But his S/R defense was downright awful.

What happened was that while Bogut was willing to show on the far-side of the screen, he's extremely slow to change direction and get back to his own man. And the Pistons took full advantage of this. On numerous occasions, Hamilton or Billups ran S/Rs with Rasheed or McDyess, and Bogut never recovered in time to prevent both bigs from launching wide open jumpers. It was this S/R set that Detroit employed almost exclusively to win the game in the OT period.

Sometimes, Bogut ventured too far away from the S/R. Instead of forcing the ball-handler back toward his defender, Bogut allowed him a lane to drive to the hoop.

Strangely enough, the Pistons failed to use Rasheed to attack the rookie's immature defense in the low post. When they did, Rasheed Wallace easily outmaneuvered the rookie, but failed to connect on easy shots.

Bogut's interior defense rates a D+, while his perimeter defense raises the Red Flag.

So what does the future hold for this young man?

As it stands, Bogut plays smart, head's-up basketball in such a way as to maximize his primary strength (intelligence), and minimize his many weaknesses (lack of speed, quickness, low hand-power, defending S/Rs). There's no doubt that as he learns the tricks of the trade, he'll become a highly influential player. However, his slowness afoot and his sub-par athleticism could haunt his entire career. It's imperative that the Bucks consciously develop Bogut as an inside presence on offense and give him much more consistent help on defense.

Can he shoot midrange jumpers? With his slow release, the best he'll ever be is an adequate shooter in one-on-none situations. Still, it's amazing how far smarts can take a player.

He needs an active shot-blocker to protect him, along with better backcourt defenders to help jam up S/Rs. But eventually Bogut can be a contributing player on a good team. However, he seems more Adam Keefe than Larry Bird.

[Matt]

But his S/R defense was downright awful.

especially in OT, Pistons attacked that well.

Overall it's a good summation of how he's played this season. D+ for defense, care to challenge that one Jae?

btw, Bucks ran the wrong way on the tip off, haha.

[J@3]

Overall it's a good summation of how he's played this season. D+ for defense, care to challenge that one Jae?

If you were any more biased against Australia you'd be deported.

I do disagree with the D+, purely because he's playing out of position. If you get a guy who's played C for all of his collegiate career, then stick him at PF in the NBA against guys who are either lightning quick for their size, or can step out and shoot of course he's going to struggle. They say he lacks athletisism, and for the Power Forward position he does... I don't see why he should get blamed for poor coaching decisions. I'd rather see him come off the bench and play C. He was alot more solid defensively in the very few games he got at C.

They may aswell make him guard the PG's or SG's, it makes absolutely no sense having him at power forward.

Still doesn't change the fact that Rashweed hacked the fuck out of his arm late on overtime. If that didn't happen, Billups doesn't hit the 3 and the Bucks win. Detroit gets away with murder out there.

[Matt]

you take what your given. He aint gonna play C until Magloire is gone, or until he he gains a clear advantage over Magloire and Bucks get a PF. He has no choice but to play PF, Bucks don't have anyone else to man that spot.

[J@3]

True. Also, is it just me or was that article basically grading him from the Pistons game only?

[Fresh8]

Mr Rosen used examples and situations from that game only so maybe that answers your question.

[joyufat]

Or, have the Bucks wasted a once-in-a-generation draft pick, and lavish amounts of money, on a rookie who's destined to be nothing more than a role player?

The Bucks already did that; his name was Big Dog Robinson. Held them to bloody ransom for a ridiculous rookie contract; ended up leading them... nowhere.

I don't like this meme that the number 1 pick is wasted on anybody but a superstar. Sometimes there are weak drafts. Bogut was still the best choice for the Bucks. I don't know who else they could have picked that would've made more sense.

I also don't think it's fair to use the league's runaway best team as his single test. A game against the Pistons was bound to highlight his flaws more than his strengths, but that goes for pretty much any player. It would've looked better for Bogut if Rosen watched them against the Bobcats or something

[Fresh8]

A question to Bogut followers... has he played against Yao yet?

[The X]

regardless of how he'll pan out, the consistency & improvement can be seen in his stats....

Nov: 8.3ppg, 8.1rpg, 1.9apg, 0.6bpg, 0.7spg, 51.1% FG
Dec: 9.1ppg, 6.4rpg (playing w/face mask), 2.2apg, 1.1bpg, 0.9spg, 54.5% FG
Jan: 10.4ppg, 9.1rpg, 2.1apg, 1.1bpg, 0.8spg, 57.7% FG

of course his minutes have gone up slightly each month, but still....good to see the gradual improvements....I'm hoping by season's end that he's averaging around 13 & 10 for the month, and finishes season with an average of about 11ppg, 8rpg, 2apg, 1bpg, 1spg....good to see shooting %'s going up, let's just hope he can start to hit some bloody FT's as 60% is

[Amphatoast]

A question to Bogut followers... has he played against Yao yet?

no.. maybe feburary 1st...if not gotta wait till next year