Should the Pacers trade O'Neal?

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Should the Pacers trade O'Neal?

Postby Matt on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 am

this guy thinks so....

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060123/COLUMNISTS01/601230389/1088/SPORTS04

Today marks exactly one month before the NBA trading deadline, or 42 days since Ron Artest was put into permanent timeout. And the Indiana Pacers, now a bland, mediocre franchise doomed to middling status in the Eastern Conference, have left themselves with only two real choices:


Start the rebuilding process now, or wait until this summer?
Because unless somebody has a debilitating brain cramp and opts to send Kevin Garnett here for Ron Artest and a nail clipper, the Pacers are going absolutely nowhere. Fifty wins, at best. A second-round playoff ouster, at best.
What? You think Pacers president Larry Bird and team CEO Donnie Walsh, who so thoroughly botched the Artest situation from the start, are going to make a season-saving trade sometime in these next few weeks?
No.
Blow it up.
Start over.
Unpopular? Yes. Difficult? With this screwy salary structure, with Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere ranking as the second- and third-highest-paid players on the team, absolutely. Necessary? That, too. It's just a matter of when.
"I can't really see that happening,'' Jermaine O'Neal said Saturday night after the Pacers' disturbing 101-89 loss to the Chicago Bulls at Conseco Fieldhouse. "The owners (Herb and Mel Simon), Donnie, Larry, they're too prideful to let that happen. But it's up to them. If we can't get the job done, I truly believe there are going to be some changes by this summer, and hopefully, my teammates and myself understand that.''
There will be changes, and it would be foolish to dismiss the notion that those changes wouldn't involve O'Neal.
On the one hand, some of us think he's grown as a player and as a leader, that he's become a regular double-double guy while operating without a second post-up presence in the lineup. He's not the reason this thing has stagnated, any more than Elton Brand was the reason the Bulls were so horrible for all those years. Management, which has let Artest destroy a second straight season while sitting in his front-row seat at Los Angeles' Staples Center, deserves ultimate culpability.
That said, if they're going to rebuild, they've got to start by moving O'Neal. He's the only player on this roster who can demand another All-Star-caliber talent. Anything short of that, they're basically tinkering, which defeats the entire purpose.
When the latest Artest mess reached critical mass, the thought here was, move the guy, give the new players a chance to get integrated, then decide by Feb. 23 whether to make subtle changes or take a blowtorch to the whole thing.
Well, nothing has happened yet. And even if it happens this week, it's not going to give coach Rick Carlisle and the rest of management enough time to know who they have, or what they have, or whether to make additional moves by the deadline.
Essentially, they've punted away a second straight season.
"We can't wait around for Superman to come in here and save the town, save the team,'' O'Neal said. "It's up to us to get it done.''
That's a noble sentiment, and it's one you'll hear throughout a very professional locker room. To their enduring credit, the Pacers' coaching staff and players have never, not once, used the team's terminal instability as an excuse.
Carlisle has been dealt a lousy hand for two straight seasons, and while his lineup-tinkering can be maddening at times, he still has this group playing about as well as possible.
These players have been virtually abandoned, left to fend for themselves, and they've refused to let the bizarre circumstances compromise their professionalism.
"Even given all of the situations we've been put in, we still should be playing better than we are,'' Austin Croshere said. "I felt the same way last year, so maybe that's just me.''
If I thought a little bit of tinkering might put them over the top, or at least get them into the area code of the top, I'd say they need to keep battling away with the current roster, be patient. If I thought an eventual trade would mentally kick-start them, make them some kind of dark horse contender, I'd call for maintaining the status quo.
Except it's not going to happen.
Is Jamaal Tinsley ever going to stay healthy? And if he does, will his maddening, painfully inconsistent street game ever evolve?
No, and no.
(Understand, Tinsley is a base-year compensation player, which means if they traded him now, they'd get only half his contractual value in return. So if they're going to move him, it will be this summer, when they can get full financial value.)
Is Stephen Jackson the long-term answer at either the two- or three-spot?
No.
There are some decent pieces in place, some younger players who have a chance to emerge with additional minutes. But in the end, the Pacers as currently constituted are monuments to mediocrity, products of an Eastern Conference where .500 is viewed as an elite standard.
They're going to have to start over. Now or later, they're going to have to start over.


I'd get rid of everyone except O'Neal & Granger.
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Postby Amphatoast on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:21 am

gotta wait and see who artest brings... that player(s) might be a better fit than artest was.. or an equal fit.
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Postby Riot on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:30 am

Minnesota gets-
Jermaine O'Neal

Indiana gets-
Rashard Lewis
Michael Olowokandi
Danny Fortson
Seattle's first round pick

Seattle gets-
Wally Szczerbiak
Ron Artest

:lol:
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Postby Matt on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:33 am

Michael Olowokandi
Danny Fortson


lol, RAPE!!!!

but yeah, that does work out kind of....except Minny wins here easily. Indiana essentially gets Lewis, and Seattle is left w/o a big guy and Wally has to play off the bench.
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Postby Fenix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:47 am

I was thinking about that scenario a couple of days ago when I was starting a Indiana dynasty in Live. As good as O'Neal is, I always saw him as a second best player on a championship team. Problem with this Pacers team is that although they have a lot of depth, a lot of solid players to work with, they're all just role players. In a perfect world, Stephen Jackson, Jeff Foster, Tinsley and others who started for the Pacers in the last months would be coming off the bench as either 6th men or rotation players. If I were Walsh, I would trade my expensive guys, keep the ones with cheap contracts (Granger) and potential and simply trade the rest for someone who could develop into a superb player down the road and draft picks. Could Orlando be for a O'Neal&Jackson for Grant Hill&Dwight Howard deal? Howard will propably end up pretty much unstoppable for the next decade or so and Hill's contract will expire next summer which will be one of the deepest FA pools in recent years.
"Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team." (Scottie Pippen, #33)
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Postby Matt on Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:01 am

Orlando would be silly to trade Howard. That kid is relentless on the boards.

I'd do a Darko for O'Neal right now. :D JO would be nice off the bench.
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Postby Fenix on Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:24 am

Matt wrote:Orlando would be silly to trade Howard. That kid is relentless on the boards.

I'd do a Darko for O'Neal right now. :D JO would be nice off the bench.

They traded Mcgrady for Francis (although that GM is long gone), so trading Howard for O'Neal wouldn't be a stretch.
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Postby Yougi on Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:11 am

VanK wrote:
Matt wrote:Orlando would be silly to trade Howard. That kid is relentless on the boards.

I'd do a Darko for O'Neal right now. :D JO would be nice off the bench.

They traded Mcgrady for Francis (although that GM is long gone), so trading Howard for O'Neal wouldn't be a stretch.


Anyways... They should, in my opinion. JO is a tremendous player, but he won't win without a Reggie. Jermaine is choking as hell in the clutch.
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Postby J@3 on Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:25 am

I wonder what they'd get for him... I guess the easy one would be Kenyon Martin + Andre Miller. I'd say Indy would expect no less than Wade + Shaq or Kobe + 5 future 1st rounders.
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Postby dada on Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:29 am

I am all for trades (as long as Kobe isnt involved). Makes the game interesting.
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Postby Drex on Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:17 am

I'd say Indy would expect no less than Wade + Shaq or Kobe + 5 future 1st rounders.

You got to be kidding, right? He wants equal value. I'd say Shaq, Wade, Haslem & Posey.
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Postby maes on Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:08 am

Howard is about as untouchable as it comes in the league right now, they'd have better chances going after Dwayne Wade or Carmelo. He has too much upside & intangibles. I highly doubt they'll give him up for JON or anyone less than LeBron.

The guy is pulling down these rebounds knowing only the most basic skills of rebounding, the coaches still have a massive list of techniques they want him to learn and predict 15-16 rpg for him once he actually learns how to play.

Did you see the picture of him kissing the rim ? Unreal hops on a 7 footer. He's the 2nd coming of David Robinson, along with the best-of-the-nba athleticism, frame, and strict religious background that make off-court issues unlikely.

He may never have a silky offensive game, but worst case scenario is a 7' Ben Wallace, best case is ????.
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Postby Fenix on Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:26 am

His offensive game will probably improve beyond our imagination (or at least that is what I hope it will happen). He has a great work ethic and shows signs of improving inside game and a midrange jumper. When all that evolves, he'll be unstoppable. I don't know if he's really 7', but he looks like a legit 6'11'' to me an there is no one with that combination of height, size and athleticism in this league.
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Postby J@3 on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:05 pm

I don't get the hype. I guess we'll soon see though.
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Postby Blasphemy on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:08 pm

If Oneal ever leaves...
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Postby Matthew on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:09 pm

Everyone seems to think he's a taller Amare Stoudamire. I dont see it personally.. and I still would have taken emeka over him
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Postby dada on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:15 pm

Matthew wrote:Everyone seems to think he's a taller Amare Stoudamire. I dont see it personally.. and I still would have taken emeka over him



I kinda saw Emeka's injury problems coming so I dontthink I would have went for him.
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Postby hipn on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:19 pm

Is Indiana even willing to trade J.O?? Does J.O even want out? and who is going to trade for J.O (I mean who are they going to trade FOR him)?
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Postby kinokong on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:32 pm

jo for kg rumors starting maybe... rumor is kg is pissed these days
PPL r a little feisty these days:D
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Postby Matthew on Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:33 pm

Yeah he had the back problems, but he's also a proven winner. Who would you prefer, Shane Battier or Kwame Brown?
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Postby Riot on Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:13 pm

just_decent wrote:jo for kg rumors starting maybe... rumor is kg is pissed these days


Actually, Garnett has been quoted that he likes the personal on the team and he doesn't think the team needs to make a move. He also said he still plans on staying in Minnesota for his whole career and he can't picture himself in any other jersey besides 'Sota.
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