Most overrated/underrated NBA Players

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Postby kevC on Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:44 am

Matthew wrote:I never said it wasnt, so why roll your eyes?

Here's the problem I have with it:
A PER is a much accurate system of efficiency scoring because it's based on a per minute efficiency


A per minute system? A NBA game is 48 minutes, and the more valueable a player the more minutes he plays. Think of all the great players, magic, bird, Jordan, shaq.. they all logged rather significant minutes becuase they were instrumental in their teams sucess. If you go by production by minutes, you might be fooled that bobby jackson was the best player in the nba in 2002 becuase of his great bench play.


No he wouldn't be because his PER was only 19.2 that year.
The point is, an efficiency rating should show how productive a player is on the court, regardless of how long he plays. Also, all these players mentioned play significant minutes whether it be 30 mpg or 45mpg. The point of making it a per minute rating is to cut down on the inconsistency that comes from the different teams' pace of the game. For example, team A might average 80 posession a game and team B might average 70 posessions. Because of this, let's say on a typical game that team A plays there are 100 available rebounds and the latter has 80. A player from team A grabs 10 of these rebounds and a player from team B grabs 10 also. The player from team B's the superior rebounder but per game stats would not show that. By limiting it to a per minute based rating, it eliminates such inconsistency.

Also, I didn't roll my eyes to be sarcastic to you, but rather showing my general discontent of NBA.com's statistics.
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Postby Matthew on Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:50 am

Ok cool. I agree the pace of the game is a huge misconception when just looking at stats. I've turned off stats alot.. I rather get my opinions from watching the games.
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Postby kevC on Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:54 am

Yeah, I understand what you mean but since none of can see every single game (I can't even see all the Rockets games because I'm so busy :cry: ) I'm inclined to believe stats are all we have to evaluate players. Also, the pace problem can be easily fixed by stats based on rates :wink: .
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Postby Indy on Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:56 am

That's a really good list maes, I forgot about Battier. He's a guy I'd love to have for Artest.
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:08 am

What in heaven's name is BROWN matter? Never heard of it.


Ah... it's the term we use in Greek, roughly translated. I think it's grey matter in English, no? :lol:
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Postby Jona on Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:30 am

Yup, it's grey matter in English and Spanish. There's white matter also. :mrgreen:
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:43 am

I'm guessing brown matter would lead your train of though somewhere else... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Axel on Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:59 am

Underrated:

A lot of the Charlotte Bobcats' lineup. Nobody knows who they are since they're an expansion.

Primoz Brezec:

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field-Goal Percentage(0.551)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(84.0)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(2.6)
Ranks #16 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per 48 Minutes(4.8)

Pau Gasol:

PPG: 19.7
APG: 4.3
RPG: 9.6
BPG: 2.41

Richard Jefferson:

PPG: 19.2
APG. 4.2
RPG: 7.5
FGP: 52.1%

Brevin Knight:

Probably the most underrated player in the league.

Ranks #6 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(8.1)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.48)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Assists(252.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals(77.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover(4.34)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(1.33)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes(12.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(3.66)

Oh btw, he's doing this in 3 mpg LESS than Chauncey Billups, the 'MVP'.... and he is on an expansion team!

.... also Corey Maggette and Chris Bosh are highly underrated. I would have picked Elton Brand too, but I think he's finally getting some respect.

Overrated Players:

Lebron James! I know he's a good player, even a great one... but the perpetual onslaught of commercials and talk about this guy is enough. He isn't an all-time great yet... he has to make his teammates better. He isn't the first person to average 30 ppg. His rebounding and assists have both regressed... both by nearly 2 per game... and he has even better talent around him... he should be averaging far more assists than last year.

Chauncey Billups: He's a good PG but how can we really know how valuable he is to the Pistons unless they play a stretch without him? There are other PGs who are averaging just as well as him... they just happen to be stuck on bad teams. (Brevin Knight, Baron Davis)
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Postby Matthew on Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:18 pm

Brevin Knight is averaging the same as Chauncey? You might want to check that. The reason the pistons are so good is becuase of Billups' play. Watch the pistons, everytime they need a big play, or someone to carry them, 9 times out of 10 its Billups. Thats why he is underated, not overated.

And the Bobcats arent an expansion team anymore, that was last year.
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Postby Yougi on Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:45 pm

I personally think Kobe and Yao are overrated.

Yao's been voted on his rookie year over Shaq, at this point the most dominant player in the world, as the starter in the all-star game. That was like, 3 years ago? Never has he given us 20-10 since.

Kobe was so hyped, thought of as the best player ever by some. I think he's a good player, a dominant scorer, an over average defender, but nowhere near as good as Phil's previous legendary swingman.

On Duncan: he's still dominant, but years of banging inside are starting to show on his body. He's past his prime, which is sad because of his age, but he's still a must on any top 10.

The most underrated player, in my opinion, is Morris Peterson. This guy is giving his heart out on every possession, playing through pain, and hitting shots while being banged around by guys that are 7 foot tall and weighting around 300 pounds. He also have a more than decent jumper, is quick, and an over-average defender. What hurts his popularity is, in my opinion, his lack of athleticism, which causes him not to be able to dunk it like former teammates VC and T-Mac.
Last edited by Yougi on Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Blasphemy on Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:18 pm

Overrated-Kobe

Underrated-Jamaal Tinsley

Just Perfect- Allen Iverson
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Postby Matthew on Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:34 pm

Why is Kobe so overated and KG isnt?
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Postby Amphatoast on Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:57 pm

because the lakers are 17-16 and the wolves are 15-16 :mrgreen: :wink:
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Postby Matthew on Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:31 pm

lol that makes no sense whatsoever :crazy:
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Postby Carmo on Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:08 pm

how is kobe overrated when he is the leading scorer in the league, the best player on his team and if it werent for him they would be 0 - 33.
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Postby John WB on Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:24 pm

Trenton Hassell's a good one.

I agree with Indy that he's under-rated. Also, the 3 maes lists- Brad Miller, Shane Battier, and Gerald Wallace AND the 4 Axel lists - Primo, Pau, RJ, and Brevin Knight. Don't know so much about the others.

cklitsie wrote:Wade and Lebron are overrated highlight-wise. Every day they get (the top) 3 spots in the Daily Top 10, by doing the same dunks they always do.

Definately.

D-Weaver, injuries are a part of the game. All NBA players deal with them. It's stupid to argue that TD's not as good because of them. It's not like this is the first time he's been injured his career.

Carmo wrote:how is kobe overrated when he is the leading scorer in the league, the best player on his team and if it werent for him they would be 0 - 33.

That very well may be, but he still could be over-rated. I think he's a helluva scorer and solid defender, butover-rated because I don't agree with many in media and fans that think he's the greatest player in the NBA.
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Postby Jugs on Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:49 pm

Sebastien Telfair is under-rated in my opinion. But I'm biased so I'll say the whole Blazers team is under-rated.

Over-rated is Chandler, stinkin' it up with his big contract.
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Postby Matt on Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:37 pm

plays there are 100 available rebounds and the latter has 80. A player from team A grabs 10 of these rebounds and a player from team B grabs 10 also. The player from team B's the superior rebounder but per game stats would not show that. By limiting it to a per minute based rating, it eliminates such inconsistency



not necessarily. If player A grabs 8 contested rebounds as opposed to Player B's 2 contested and 8 uncontested rebounds. Clearly player A is the better rebounder.

One must also consider the % of rebounds a player grabbed during his time on court, which would require watching every game. And a % of total rebounds he got that were contested and also a % of contested rebounds he got that were available.
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Postby Matthew on Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:48 pm

Also Matt, if the player in question is a great on the ball defender, that would effect his rebounding numbers too becuase (most really good rebounders will tell you this) you try to position yourself on the opposite side of the court to where the shot is comming from. now if your defending the guy who shoots, that will effect your rebounding obviously.
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Postby Matt on Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:16 pm

good point, since the ball usually ends up on the weak side.
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Postby Emiliano on Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:03 pm

Underrated: Gerald Wallace....this guy is incredible. At 6'7 he can block plenty of shots, his defence is quickly improving and he should be a defensive player of the year candidate. (Y)
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Postby Riot on Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:13 pm

Trenton Hassell is underrated, Indy knows how I feel about him.

I also have a man crush on Greg Buckner and Keith McLeod. Keith is a good point guard, he played about a season for the Timberwolves and now he plays for the Utah Jazz. He's the pwner.
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Postby Its_asdf on Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:53 am

Chris Bosh is definitely underrated. He's one of the best power fowards in the league, so hopefully he'll at least be a sub for the All-Star game.

Shawn Marion is also a guy that doesn't get as much recognition as he does; especially last year when all the hype surrounded Nash and Amare.

Donyell Marshall is a very, very underrated player too. He can really light it up from three and is a very effective rebounder.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas seems pretty overrated to me. Maybe its just that I'm biased against tall white guys.
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Postby Matt on Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:01 am

Underrated-Jamaal Tinsley


um, overrated.
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Postby kinokong on Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:56 am

if tinsley wasn't injured he probably wouldn't be over or under just between but indy's offense seems to run smoother when he is in the lineup...
PPL r a little feisty these days:D
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