Rockets = Disappointing

I am still wondering why Stro isn't starting.

xactly

why can't this brotha get no start?
he is gonna blowup, some way or other, with all that talent caged.
it better be on the court

Besides i thought he signed with Houston because they were going to start him, lol.

The guy has to run up & down the court weighin 300 lbs, i think it just might be out of his physical ability to put in 40 mpg. Not everyone can be an athletic freak like Shaq. Ilgauskas has played between 30-33 mpg last 3 years, he's only 260.

This might be why Van Gundy told the press Yao would be better if he was 7'0"....

I think his limited endurance is part of the double-edged sword of having a 7' 5" 300 lb player.

i still think Yao is crappy for his size and skills..

What superstar level 7-6, 300lb center is he not better than?

I rank Amare, Camby, Shaq and Ben Wallace ahead of Yao.

I threw out Amare because he's not playing this season, he had one season better than Yao and one season at the Center position. If he were to continue to do both I'll certainly move him ahead, but until then I won't. Camby may be having a better season so far this year (with Yao...what's that? second to him!), but not so for the rest of his career. Shaq has been the best center in the league for nearly a decade now so he's the given player ahead of Yao. Wallace is only passable on one end of the court and his overall package is not as good as Yao. He's great on defense, horrid on offense. Yao is fantastic on offense, above average on defense.

Take away my excuse for Amare and I'll change my phrasing to say "aside from last year when Amare played Malone2K, Yao has been the second best center since he set foot in the league."

Thats the problem, he isnt averaging 40 minutes a game.

How is that a problem? As you know, per 40 minute stats are not saying that Yao will get 25 and 12 if he plays 40 minutes a game. What per minute stats are doing is leveling the playing field because no one in the league plays the same minutes (and since I pace-adjust, plays the same pace) to allow us to actually compare players. Per 40 minutes is what I choose because more popular sources use it, it could be per minute, per 10 minutes, per 30 minutes, per 1000 minutes whatever. As someone else pointed out, Dirk grabbed 9.7 rebounds per game last season, Reggie Evans 9.3 rebounds per game. No one in their right mind would claim Dirk is the superior rebounder.

With McGrady ailing, the rockets need Yao to step up now.

So increasing your point production efficiency while also increasing the number of possessions you use is not stepping up. Logically we have to conclude someone who believes that also believes that if Yao were to become as inefficent as Kwame Brown and combine that with the possession usage of Michael Ruffin he would be "stepping up."

The game is much bigger than stats and this is a prime example.

Perhaps, but there's very little stats cannot represent. And even then stats can represent the result of that. No one has yet to point out to me cases where someone is good but has terrible stats or vice versa despite my consistant asking for such. And I don't mean things like "Pape Sow is currently averaging 80 points per 40 minutes, this proves stats are meaningless" as we're talking about having a useful sample size. 12.5% of minutes or more. (I know there's people who have determined 150 minutes to be statistically significant but I still play it safe at 12.5%)

I don't use per minute rates except for quick summaries and comparisons, I use rates based on possessions and other things as that's even more detailed. If people aren't going to properly understand the concept of per 40 minutes, they aren't going to understand the concept of a per possession rate. That said, once again, who's per 40 minutes rates have led us too far astray? Look at guys like Primoz Brezec, Gerald Wallace, Melvin Ely, Kareem Rush, Michael Redd, Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph. Their per 40 rates were basically unchanged (especially after accounting for the known FG% flukes and the opportunties an increase in possessions allows for) over a number of years even as their minutes fluctuated.

As for the rest of your post Ben, you cant expect people to take what you're saying seriously when its just all facts.

I edited one word in this quote. The meaning is unchanged but it no longer has a word that has some strange negative connotation associated with it.

I'm sure if we broke it down, someone could make an arguement that Udrich was more important to the spurs last season than Horry becuase he had a better statistical season.

But Udrih didn't have a better statistical season. It would also be hard to make the case that Udrih was more important to the Spurs as once again Horry maintained his stats into the playoffs (as I'm sure we all know, this is why Horry is considered so good in the playoffs, because he does not lose his effectiveness, the average player loses roughly 10% of it), while Udrih did not.

But as a leader, Yao has to play better. You yourself "showed" how "effective" yao is per 40 minutes; the rockets need that kind of production now while Tmac is hurting. If Yao truely has improved he would be carrying the rockets...

What evidence is there to claim Yao is not "carrying" the Rockets when McGrady is out. Because they aren't winning? Did Shaq not carry the Lakers in the 2004 Finals? After all Kobe was shut down, Malone was gone, and Payton was non-existant. The rest of that Lakers team was almost as bad as this Rockets crew has been. Yao is giving that production while adding more responsibility. The problem is that basketball is a team sport and when your team is massivly deficient at four of the five positions (when McGrady is out) there's nothing one player can EVER do about it. Get rid of McGrady, and even Jordan or Wilt (replacing Yao of course) wouldn't win games with this team.

If Yao stepped it up to Duncanesque levels the Rockets would still have featured more below average and even terrible players on their roster than I have fingers.

And besides, Yao's got these guys sporting his jersey...

Last edited by benji on Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have to agree with benji... the Rockets bench is literally shit... aside from Stro. Wesley... Moochie... Bowen... Mutombo... Barry... Sura... Glover... Baxter... These names would look decent on a roster in the NBDL. Most of the players either really suck or getting really old. But then again, I don't want the Rockets to hit the "rebuilding" stage especially when they have T-Mac and Yao right now.

Yao needs to be more agressive, he needs to attack the key a lot more and stronger. If hes open for a dunk, he should dunk it hard and send a messege to the other team that he's more agressive and not scared to finish a play with a dunk.

hipn brings up a good point. I haven't seen Yao play yet this year, but I did catch a few Rockets games last year and noticed the same thing time and time again. Yao does seem to miss easy shots around the basket, and I feel the answer is simple: he should dunk more often.

Now, before you start saying that's analysis that an eight year old (or possibly Bill Walton: "Throw it down, big man!") might make, hear me out. With the whole concept of the dunk evolving into an art form, we've perhaps lost sight of what it is: the highest percentage shot in basketball, at least for those who can easily get up and thrown it down. In the hands of players the size of Shaq and Yao, you're looking at a really, really good success rate for a basic stuff.

Back in the 90s, early in his career, Shaq was usually criticised for his overuse of the dunk. "All he can do is dunk!" a lot of people would cry, and it wasn't far from the truth. He didn't have a great deal of moves and he's still no Hakeem Olajuwon or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But there's no denying that Shaq has been very successful at the offensive end relying on simple power moves inside and the dunk.

Yao isn't as strong as Shaq, but he's still got a great natural advantage in his size and height. He needn't be fancy, he just needs to put it down when he's at the hoop. Forget even touching the rim for a moment, all he need do is drop it in. Because even though he's got a soft touch for a player his size, his tremendous height advantage can still work against him. It's hard to get a friendly bounce when you're lofting the ball in a hook or tear drop-style shot when you're 7'6". Yao can't really put as much height in the arc of your shot and sometimes it seems like he's shooting down at the basket.

Obviously, these days you want your All-Star centre to have more than a couple of moves and simply be more than just a 7 footer, and Yao fits that bill. But you also want him to be able to finish strong around the basket especially someone of Yao's stature. To put a number on it, through the first 9 games Yao has 9 dunks. A few more of those high percentage attempts and he'll be a great force around the basket.

Of course, it does go beyond dunking, my point is that the dunk would be a particularly effective move for Yao to use more often when he's at the rim. When he's in the paint, he really needs to finish because let's face it, how many players are going to be able to stop him - consistently at least - if he powers to the hoop?

Once Ewing teaches Yao to dunk more, he will be the 2nd best center in the league for sure!(Amare shouldnt count as a C, hes a PF)Right now, Yao is way better at defense then last season. He's learned to not do stupid fouls

thats simply not yao's game, to me he's almost like a combo sabonis-smits-ewing. i just dont think yao is made to be in the realm of a shaq, duncan, or olajawan, but he's also better than said sabonis or smits, so i guess you could label him a superstar tweener. that said, i do think he is the 3rd best centre in the league right now (i consider duncan both a centre and pf, and the best at both) if only because his mere physical presence affects almost every opposing teams game plan on both ends to a degree that no other centre (aside from td and shaq) can claim.

Although it's too early to comment on Houston's bad results at this time, but they are currently the worst team in the West.

watch some rocket games this year, andrew

he posts up on the block and goes up strong.

he doesn't have the athleicisim or strength as shaq or stoudemire so he can't go through opponents like they do

Yao is in the Top 30 at best. When Tmac was out he really couldn't carry the team, and it's not his place. I think they'll get it together as the season goes on, they've had some roadblocks.

wanna know why stro isnt starting?
how bout ZERO rebounds, 5 points, 2to and 3pf in 15minutes against pacers!

and then theres bowen, with zeroes across the board... theyre really struggling without tracy...

*sigh* another loss... seriously, they better make some roster changes...

*sigh* another loss... seriously, they better make some roster changes...

Make more changes? They've already made too many. They need to develop chemistry and hope McGrady can be 100% for the rest of the year.

I told you guys, dealing Mike James for Rafer Alston was a bad move.

Dealing away Mike James was definitely bad... I remember seeing it on Clutchfans.net and was just stunned. How could the Rockets want a guy that disrupted the locker room so much for the raptors the past season? Rockets also made a horrible move in dealing Jim Jackson to the Hornets for Wesley last year. That trade was uncalled for imo. Rockets gave up a ton of size in that trade. If only the Rockets could be as successful as my Rockets dynasty... 52-7 so far

when is the "year of yao" movie coming out? hahaha

^^ It will never come out unfortunately. The absence of tmac really shows how much the team and especially yao rely on him. I wish tmac and sura can comeback at 100% by december or else start thinking lottery.

watch some rocket games this year, andrew

Easier said than done.

he posts up on the block and goes up strong.

he doesn't have the athleicisim or strength as shaq or stoudemire so he can't go through opponents like they do

I'm sure I'll see it for myself soon enough, as I said I was making an observation from last year. I know he's not as athletic or strong as a Shaq or Amare, but he's still physically imposing and he has an awesome height advantage...when you can practically dunk without jumping it should be easy to basically drop the ball in the basket. I just think putting the usual arc on his shots works against him because of the angles he creates with his height.

watch some rocket games this year, andrew

Easier said than done.

he posts up on the block and goes up strong.

he doesn't have the athleicisim or strength as shaq or stoudemire so he can't go through opponents like they do

I'm sure I'll see it for myself soon enough, as I said I was making an observation from last year. I know he's not as athletic or strong as a Shaq or Amare, but he's still physically imposing and he has an awesome height advantage...when you can practically dunk without jumping it should be easy to basically drop the ball in the basket. I just think putting the usual arc on his shots works against him because of the angles he creates with his height.

I still believe the rockets are great. I think they should trade at the start of next year alston and also Juwan Howard. Juwan is really the key for losing, lol.

And one of the players Houston should try to get is Beno Udrih. I think he can really explode with them. Besides He is not much taken into consideration in San Antonio right now.

One possible trade Houston could offer to San Antonio is Howard and Bowen for Nesterovic and Udrih.

Why Houston would do it? They get a better defense with Nesterovic and a player that could develop into a good pg in Udrih.

Why San Antonio would do it? Mainly because they get rid of an amount near to 1 millon in salaries. Also, Udrih has no space with them and Howard also seems as a good addition on papers.

One possible trade Houston could offer to San Antonio is Howard and Bowen for Nesterovic and Udrih.

Why Houston would do it? They get a better defense with Nesterovic and a player that could develop into a good pg in Udrih.

Why San Antonio would do it? Mainly because they get rid of an amount near to 1 millon in salaries. Also, Udrih has no space with them and Howard also seems as a good addition on papers.

Why would San Antonio make adjustments like that to a team that is the defending champion and wouldn't help anything and only disrupt chemistry?

One possible trade Houston could offer to San Antonio is Howard and Bowen for Nesterovic and Udrih.

Why Houston would do it? They get a better defense with Nesterovic and a player that could develop into a good pg in Udrih.

Why San Antonio would do it? Mainly because they get rid of an amount near to 1 millon in salaries. Also, Udrih has no space with them and Howard also seems as a good addition on papers.

Why would San Antonio make adjustments like that to a team that is the defending champion and wouldn't help anything and only disrupt chemistry?

ask holt. Well, San Antonio has a pretty limited market so always keeping some dollars help. Moreover, in the off-season they even offered Rasho for Abdul-Wahad and i know he had a clause so the team that released him only paid half of the price but still a trade like the one i mention would still represent a 1 millon cut.

better defence with Nesterovic

I already knew what was going to happen to the Rockets this year. I mean I didn't think they were be this bad, but I knew they weren't going to be a top 4-5 team in the West. Swift isn't a lifesaver, he is an "ok player" and I've learned that from all the years he has been in Memphis. Everyone thought Swift was just going to be great and I knew he wasn't because I've seen the way he played in Memphis.

but in the swift to houston thread...

It was a great pickup, I think it was a mistake by Memphis by not trying to hurry up and strike a deal with another team so Swift wouldn't leave without getting anything. The same thing is going to happen with Bonzi if they don't end up trading him by July 22nd. This will definitely make Swift rise since he will be starting in his natural position.

And yea Swift is being underrated a little bit by saying he only is good for nice dunks, but he barely got enough time playing behind Gasol sometime and playing out of position. I always wanted him to be a starter by even trying to put Gasol at center, and when he started once all the players got injured, he went a period of around 5 games where he averaged 18ppg, 9rpg and 2.5bpg.

I already knew what was going to happen to the Rockets this year. I mean I didn't think they were be this bad, but I knew they weren't going to be a top 4-5 team in the West. Swift isn't a lifesaver, he is an "ok player" and I've learned that from all the years he has been in Memphis. Everyone thought Swift was just going to be great and I knew he wasn't because I've seen the way he played in Memphis.

but in the swift to houston thread...

It was a great pickup, I think it was a mistake by Memphis by not trying to hurry up and strike a deal with another team so Swift wouldn't leave without getting anything. The same thing is going to happen with Bonzi if they don't end up trading him by July 22nd. This will definitely make Swift rise since he will be starting in his natural position.

And yea Swift is being underrated a little bit by saying he only is good for nice dunks, but he barely got enough time playing behind Gasol sometime and playing out of position. I always wanted him to be a starter by even trying to put Gasol at center, and when he started once all the players got injured, he went a period of around 5 games where he averaged 18ppg, 9rpg and 2.5bpg.

And all of what I said didn't really go with what I put before. I never said the Rockets were going to be a top 4-5 team, I said it was a great pickup and I thought Swift was going to be able to start over there which is why I said he would be able to rise. I know whawt I put in that other thread about him, and I'm not going to change what I said about him before and what I'm saying now because I'm not saying two completely different things about him other than me saying he is an ok player and I never saw him as an all-star anyway so I can stick by what I said by calling him an ok player.

whatever dude. do i really have to bust out some of your posts praising swift on how great you thought he was? but now that he's on houston, you're saying he's just ok