Lakers off season thread

[Drex]

You love yourself way too much..."He posts facts"

[air gordon]

the game discusses in intelligent and civil manner?

[The Game]

the game discusses in intelligent and civil manner?

At times, yes.

[Jackal]

Kobe still sucks unless he can win. Saying he needs a better supporting cast is kind of a contradiction since his salary is so huge no one decent would want to play for LA.

[The Game]

Saying he needs a better supporting cast is kind of a contradiction since his salary is so huge no one decent would want to play for LA.

I dont know... Look at the 2007 plan, doesnt it sound eerily similar to the last time we were preparing to acquire a big name free agent(Shaq)?

Jerry Buss and the rest of the organization seems pretty confident about the 2007 plan.

[air gordon]

how does it sound eerily similar?

[The Game]

The way buss prepared for the year that Shaq became a free agent.
How confident Buss and co. were at that time.

[air gordon]

oh.. ok

[xman]

I think that La sucks next year too

[Metsis]

As long as Kobe is taking 30 shots per game it just won't work... Period.

WTF are you yapping on about? Kobe averaged 20.1 shot attempts per game.

As long as Kobe keeps hogging the ball to himself this will not work.

Let's go to the facts:
In 02-03, Kobe shot 23.5 attempts per game, 20 the year before that and 22 the season before that one.

Kobe didnt do anything different last season, the only problem was he had an inferior supporting cast. Kobe was "hogging" the ball back when they were winning championships, Kobe is "hogging" the ball now. Dont put the blame on Kobe.

Lakers are not going to go to play-offs... I'd be surprised to see them there. They don't have anyone besides Kobe and he's got such a big head now that it wouldn't matter who he played with, cause he only plays with himself. Other guys are just in the way...

Pure speculation from someone with inadequate knowledge on the lakers and Kobe Bryant.

It took Shaq and Phil to give up the ball to the big guy every once in a while, now that Kobe doesn't have that "second option" he's going to take all the shots he can think of getting off before even thinking about giving it up.

It took Shaq to give up the ball to Shaq?

Kobe has that second option, Lamar Odom anyone?

Kobe hasn't figured out why Jordan was as succesful as he was... Jordan always knew that he can't handle the ball 50 minutes of a 48 minute game... Kobe thinks he can. What Jordan did, was that he was more of a play-maker and team player through the first three quarters and took over in the fourth if he had to. Yes, he did score alot in the first three too, but he was playing it more for the team...

How was Michael in the Bulls in the late 1980's? How long did it take Michael to win his first championship? How long has been Kobe playing as the main man in LA?

First off, Lamar Odom was a pale shade of himself in Lakers when compared to what he did for the Heat the previous season. Why was that? He could not get the ball unless he tried to steal it from Kobe... The actual shot number is not really the issue here... Exaggarating or not, I say that Kobe is more and more stuck with the ball now than he was with Shaq. The fact that he is not shooting more and hogging the ball even more than before is even worse... He now truly knows how nasty it can be against enemy defenses... Wade is now getting all that extra room to do his thing because Shaq occupies enemy defenses even without the ball... The lanes are wide open where ever Shaq is.

Caron Butler and Lamar Odom were big parts of Miami's success before the Shaq deal... Either the lakers system crippled the guys or it was all Kobe, but those are some nice players and I bet Caron will return to that 20ppg form in Washington.

Another Kobe like move was made this summer when Joe Johnson went to Atlanta to be the MAN. He will be missing those easy defenses he faced as the fourth option on Suns around game 3 or 4... All those open shots. I don't know who's blowing smoke up these guys asses, but I would have never left a team that can make my job so much easier. He's in a similar position in what Kobe was last summer. Being the man in a bunch of boys...

The key to this game has always been with duos and players that make everyone around them better.

Kobe had his ass handed to him last season... This season we will see if had learned anything from it. I don't know even if the zenmaster can turn this all around.

Take off the Lakers glasses "the game"... And face the facts. The Lakers team is no better than last season... And it won't get any better before 2007 when they will try to go for Yao Ming, which is a huge mistake... Shaq was a no-brainer back then... He was a huge and dominating force to reckoned with on any scale and still some 10+ years later is. Yao isn't nearly as good and the fact is he will probably never be. But the Chinese people are different... Trying to get him away from his "masters" is going to be next to impossible, just like me ever dunking. Chinese are loyal and honorable and basically value lots of other things above the all mighty dollar... And he will more than likely get a max deal from Rockets too, so don't expect him to be going anywhere...

If you asked Kobe how long has he been the main man in la-la-land, he would most likely say 7-8 years... And don't get me wrong, I know he's one of the greatest players playing in the NBA at the moment, but until he recognizes that the other guys might want the ball too, he will not be as great as Jordan...

How long was Duncan "the man" before he won his first title? A year! So this argument is totally moot... And pointless and trivial.

Someone says something wrong about the team and guys you love and you go insulting them right off the bat... Please, mail me when you get to the age of 10...

[The Game]

So you're saying Kobe messed up last season. Right? Yes he did but the point is judging the player on one season and ignoring his entire career is entirely stupid and ignorant.

Another Kobe like move was made this summer when Joe Johnson went to Atlanta to be the MAN.

Kobe stayed in LA. What's your point? Shaq was traded because Buss didnt want to pay him. Shaq was asking for too much.

Kobe had his ass handed to him last season...

And you're pointing out the obvious because?

Take off the Lakers glasses "the game"... And face the facts.

Unfortunately, you're yet to give concrete facts.

The Lakers team is no better than last season...

Last time i checked, the season is yet to start. What was that about facts again?

And it won't get any better before 2007 when they will try to go for Yao Ming, which is a huge mistake...

Who told you the lakers are going after Yao? You can see the future? I want to face the facts but i dont see any.

Fact: Yao Ming is not the only big name free agent in 2007.

Shaq was a no-brainer back then... He was a huge and dominating force to reckoned with on any scale and still some 10+ years later is. Yao isn't nearly as good and the fact is he will probably never be. But the Chinese people are different... Trying to get him away from his "masters" is going to be next to impossible, just like me ever dunking. Chinese are loyal and honorable and basically value lots of other things above the all mighty dollar... And he will more than likely get a max deal from Rockets too, so don't expect him to be going anywhere...

And that is relevant because?

If you asked Kobe how long has he been the main man in la-la-land, he would most likely say 7-8 years...

Have you asked Kobe that question? I desperately need to face the facts.

How long was Duncan "the man" before he won his first title? A year! So this argument is totally moot... And pointless and trivial.

Are you comparing the team Duncan had to the team Kobe had?

Someone says something wrong about the team and guys you love and you go insulting them right off the bat...

Nice eh?

Please, mail me when you get to the age of 10...

Boo hoo, some kid called me a 10 year old.

[Jackal]

That you managed to admit Bryant fucked up last season was sufficient for me but you kept on going so...

So you're saying Kobe messed up last season. Right? Yes he did but the point is judging the player on one season and ignoring his entire career is entirely stupid and ignorant.

Just as ignorant when not taking into account he played a long side a 7'1 behemoth who at 30+ years old is still the focal point of the opposing teams' defense. Now that sir, is ignorance.

This is a perfect time to take into account how Bryant did. Given he did it as the sole player of the team. The go to guy, the man, the shizzle.

Kobe stayed in LA.

Pff, only reason Kobe stayed in LA was because Phil was ousted as was Shaq. Or as you like to put it, Shaq left. Don't you recall Kobe saying he would be willing to go to the Clippers? Don't you recall reading the article in which Bryant said Phil's decision to stay in LA would affect Bryant's decision to play for the Lakers? What he meant by that comment was that Johnson chose a team where he could be what Bryant was seeking to be last offseason. The man. The shizzle. The go to guy.

Difference is LA's management decided it'd be better to keep Bryant than try and win a championship. They decided they wanted mediocrisy over championship contention. They decided they want to keep Bryant as the shizzle on the Lakers' team instead of him going to the Clips and being the shizzle there. That's the only thing that happened.

Had Phoenix gotten rid of Nash, Stoudemire & Marion, it would've been exactly the same situation as with LA. Difference is Phoenix's management don't have shit for brains.

And you're pointing out the obvious because?

Because a lot of Lakers fans tend not to see that. Bryant was a failure as a leader. It wasn't because he had a bad supporting cast. Miami (pre Shaq trade) did a lot better with pretty much the same thing. Difference here would be chemistry. Odom shined in Miami. Odom stunk in LA. Has to be a reason, no? Perhaps it was just the weather change.

Last time i checked, the season is yet to start. What was that about facts again?

You replaced Butler with Brown & added a 17 year old kid. How is that better? Seems the same if not worse to me.

Who told you the lakers are going after Yao? You can see the future? I want to face the facts but i dont see any.

Fact: Yao Ming is not the only big name free agent in 2007.

Who told him LA was going after Yao? Sit. He's seems to be a big Laker fan (?) and he keeps mentioning Yao, I'm sure there are numerous other folks that feel LA is trying to land Yao. Saying that he just "saw the future" on that one is another sign of being ignorant. You're pretending you've never heard that suggestion before.

Just like if he had said LA wouldn't land Amare. Which they won't. Then again, I can't see the future, no? Good come back.

Given you seem to have a sign or clue about LA's "2007 plan" and it seems "eerily similiar" to Shaq's case. Who is it you think they will land? Amare? Hah. Yao? Hah.

Which other "big name" free agent did you have in mind?

[air gordon]

lol something to agree on...

who exactly is mr buss targeting and has supreme confidence in signing?

[J@3]

RAEF LAFRENTZ!

[Bang]

On Kobe hogging the ball:
Look at FG% and then look at his turnovers per game. Don't look at anything else. What does that tell you? He makes a lot of careless passes (assists because he has to) and that he makes a lot of careless shots. That's called ball-hogging.
His turnovers increased GREATLY. Plus his FG% started decreasing last year when he started becoming a ball-hog. (Not to say, he wasn't before then.)

[Metsis]

So you're saying Kobe messed up last season. Right? Yes he did but the point is judging the player on one season and ignoring his entire career is entirely stupid and ignorant.

I'm saying that the first and only time Kobe has had to make the team play well, he fell flat on his ass... He hasn't had to do that, well ever before. In highschool competition you can rule by just sticking with the ball and scoring all the baskets... He failed and didn't even improve his own stats in the process...

Kobe stayed in LA. What's your point? Shaq was traded because Buss didnt want to pay him. Shaq was asking for too much.

For someone who so blatantly appears to be a Lakers fan you are totally clueless as to what happened there last summer... Or the summer before. Buss basically gave Shaq an ultimatum, that if he can't bring in Malone and Payton, he'd be traded or something... Shaq did his thing and got Malone and Payton for 3 dollars combined and got to play out the season. In the end when the all-powerful Lakers fell, the winning got out of the way and the real emotions got loose. Buss and Lakers brass had to choose between Shaq and Kobe... They choose Kobe due to his much younger age and a chance to build around him was still there. Shaq has a few more years left in the tank, but will fade before Kobe does. Phil had just had enough of the whole Lakers soap opera and wanted out.

And you're pointing out the obvious because?

Well, we'll have to see wheter he learned anything from the "ass handing" or not... If not, he will probably never be a guy to build your team around. It's win or lose right now for Kobe... He's got this one chance this upcoming season and it doesn't look good.

Last time i checked, the season is yet to start. What was that about facts again?

Having Aaron McKie, a life long shooting guard, to man your point isn't a good idea... Kwame Brown could be the bust he has appeared to be this far and Odom is still a shadow of himself, if he can't get the ball at all.

Who told you the lakers are going after Yao? You can see the future? I want to face the facts but i dont see any.

Fact: Yao Ming is not the only big name free agent in 2007.

True, but this same strat was used to land Shaq... But they don't have the Icon to overtalk guys, so it probably won't happen. And they desperately need a big guy to open up the lanes for Kobe... Especially if he fall on his ass again this season.

And that is relevant because?

West was the man behind the coup that brought Shaq to Lakers... I'm just saying that the chances of people actually coming to Lakers while Kobe keeps hogging ball go down every summer... By 2007, with a couple of more "no show" play-off appearances and Lakers will be trading Kobe away and starting over with some bunch of young players... Especially when they can't attract any decent stars to come to tinsletown...

Have you asked Kobe that question? I desperately need to face the facts.

Have you ever read anything related to the team or Kobe??? Or are you just a "Kobe Bryant didn't have sex with the girl in the hotel as it would have been wrong"-kind of guy.

Are you comparing the team Duncan had to the team Kobe had?

Yeah, Duncan was the man when he got to the Spurs and they won straight away... It's not like they had NBA all-star starting five on that team... As you were arguing about how many years it took for Jordan... So I threw it back with Duncan, as he pretty much brought the title to Spurs by himself... He had a fading Robinson to boot, but not much more.

Boo hoo, some kid called me a 10 year old.

To be precise... I called you a 6 year old... As you are atleast 4 years below a ten year olds mindset... Kid, better do the research before you go blaming anyone a kid...

[Isaiah]

(Wow, this offseason thread has turned into the "is Kobe Bryant hogging the ball or not" thread)

Kobe Bryant is one of the best players in the league, if not, the best. The thing is, he doesn't fully know how to lead a team, being the "sidekick" or "second option" that he was with Shaq in the team.

Kobe had a great individual season last year, but obviously the team didn't. This doesn't automatically mean that Kobe Bryant is a full-fledged ballhog (take a look at Iverson). He just HAD TO because he had NO confidence in his teammates because they were underachieving. If Bryant was the cause of their being underachieving, then how about the time when he was injured or whenever he was on the bench (if ever). That was supposed to be the time when the other players were supposed to show their true form, since no one was there to lead them.

as for the offseason:

being a citizen of Southern California and a Lakers fan all the way, i honestly admit that immideate change is ABSOLUTELY NOT expected..

However, I'm sure that they were improve, that's for sure. Kobe, unless hes really stupid and that ignorant, has learned how it feels to be the lone leader. He obviously has learned something from this past season.

Another thing: IF the Lakers do NOT improve (meaning they get 34-48 or lower) then i suggest Laker management should fire MITCH KUPCHAK.

[RoCkY MaIvIa]

Lakers so far have a great bunch of coaching staffs..They need someone who can really play the point.