Keyon Dooling To Magic, now official

[RxC6]

Keyon Dooling said he agreed to terms Friday on a three-year deal believed to be worth nearly $10 million with Orlando, where he'll probably have a chance to become the Magic's starting point guard.

http://www.nj.com/sportsflash/basketball/index.ssf?/base/sports-6/1122075878274010.xml&storylist=basketball

that means francis will play "2"?

Starting 5
C: Cato
PF: Howard
SF: Hill
SG: Francis
PG: Dooling

thats a nice lineup ..

[Matthew]

No thats a shit lineup. Put Howard at centre, play Nelson at pg and keep Hill and Stevie in their respective positions.

[Fenix]

That backcourt couldn't guard me. 6'3'' Francis against 6'7'' Kobes, Greens and JR Smiths of this league? I don't think so.

[Matthew]

Yeah the Greens and JR Smiths of the NBA just tear people up

Stevie is their best scorer. You have to put him in a position where he is comfortable. If he has to set up the offense and score, thats when you have problems. But with Nelson (a decent defender and shooter) and Hill (who can intiate the offense), it takes the pressure off Francis to do everything.

Defense isnt all about height. Ben Wallace is often shorter than his man but he has been DPOY 3 times.

[Kemp]

Dooling starting over Nelson. Nelson thought he could start the new season as a starting PG, but now it appears to be over.

[Strike Freedom]

is Dooling really that good?

[Matthew]

No he isnt. If the Magic start dooling over Nelson its the worst move they've made since trading Bo Outlaw and the a furture first round pick to phoenix (who later turned out to be Amare Stoudamire) for cap space.

[Kemp]

is Dooling really that good?

He is alright, a good 3 point shooter, he play some defence. But he is a bench player, never really get the opportunity to play starter minutes. So with Nelson and Dooling, they both probably spilt minutes at the PG.

[Fenix]

Yeah the Greens and JR Smiths of the NBA just tear people up

Stevie is their best scorer. You have to put him in a position where he is comfortable. If he has to set up the offense and score, thats when you have problems. But with Nelson (a decent defender and shooter) and Hill (who can intiate the offense), it takes the pressure off Francis to do everything.

Defense isnt all about height. Ben Wallace is often shorter than his man but he has been DPOY 3 times.

I was talking about height, where JR Smith has great advantage over Francis (plus, he'll be at least 15ppg scorer this year whis is very, very good.), And you're right - height isn't everything. But for a man like Francis - who is a decent man defender, but has sometimes troubles guarding men inch or two shorter than him - height is a lot. His athleticism is an advantage that works for him, but that wouldn't help him when his opponents will be three, four inches taller than him and have at least 90% of his vertical.

[Matthew]

JR Smith is a talent, but he isn't one of the elite shooting gaurds in the NBA, which is why i questioned him (and green) in your example.

But back to the topic at hand. If stevie does have problems guarding guys 6-6 +, maybe they could use a lineup of Hedo at sf, Stevie at sg, Hill at pg on offense. Then defensively put hill or hedo on the 2 guard, and have stevie on the point.

Or keep Nelson and Stevie in the same lineup, and just goto a 2-3 zone.

[Fenix]

JR Smith is a talent, but he isn't one of the elite shooting gaurds in the NBA, which is why i questioned him (and green) in your example.

Yeah, I understand your doubts.

But back to the topic at hand. If stevie does have problems guarding guys 6-6 +, maybe they could use a lineup of Hedo at sf, Stevie at sg, Hill at pg on offense. Then defensively put hill or hedo on the 2 guard, and have stevie on the point.

Or keep Nelson and Stevie in the same lineup, and just goto a 2-3 zone.

All solutions you've offered would probably work short term during the regular seasonds, but not in playoffs, where tough, versatile D is needed. IMHO, Orlando would be better off trading Francis, but problem is that there isn't decent suitors with something to offer you back. I hate their decision of drafting Vasquez when Green was still on the table. But then again, they were probably having visions of a two headed monster made of Vasquez and Howard.

[Matthew]

Somtimes you have to do what you have to do. If trading Stevie helps their team, then they have to do it.

I agree, they should have taken Green. But so should alot of teams.

[Keo]

He won't be throwing down highlight dunks against the Magic this year...

[NNpF]

Keyon Dooling said he agreed to terms Friday on a three-year deal believed to be worth nearly $10 million with Orlando, where he'll probably have a chance to become the Magic's starting point guard.

http://www.nj.com/sportsflash/basketball/index.ssf?/base/sports-6/1122075878274010.xml&storylist=basketball

that means francis will play "2"?

Starting 5
C: Cato
PF: Howard
SF: Hill
SG: Francis
PG: Dooling

thats a nice lineup ..

Francis has been playing the two this season already with Jameer Nelson playing PG.

The Magic want Dwight Howard to play C so I guess that's where he's going to play.

Dooling should not start over Jameer Nelson, if he does, as Matthew already said, it would be a terrible move.

If they manage to sign Keeyon Dooling it won't help them all that much, the Magic still have a long ways to go in terms of assembling a championship, even playoff ready team.

[ostov]

Who will play sf/4?

[NNpF]

Who will play sf/4?

Grant Hill will play SF, and they have a couple of options at PF, none of them good.

They can use either Tony Battie, Kelvin Cato or Pat Garrity at PF.

If they don't sign anybody else to play PF my guess would be something like this:

C - Dwight Howard
PF - Tony Battie
SF - Grant Hill
SG - Steve Francis
PG - Jameer Nelson

[Jona]

This trade is another reason to keep pushing on Damon's contract.

[RxC6]

wad about Fran Vazquez for 4 ?

[Do']

but cato suck!!

[Mentally Hilarious]

Cato is solid.

Trading Francis would be good exept for two things.
1. Wouldn't get enough in return, I would think that Francis stock is rather low atm, and any team that would take him will not give up good pieces to Orlando.
2. The front-office would look like morons trading T-mac for Francis/Mobley and trading away both within a year for scrubs.

[fgrep15]

Yeah the Greens and JR Smiths of the NBA just tear people up

Stevie is their best scorer. You have to put him in a position where he is comfortable. If he has to set up the offense and score, thats when you have problems. But with Nelson (a decent defender and shooter) and Hill (who can intiate the offense), it takes the pressure off Francis to do everything.

Defense isnt all about height. Ben Wallace is often shorter than his man but he has been DPOY 3 times.

Ben has been DPOY mainly on help and team defense, not man to man defense. It also helps him that their aren't too many good scoring centers in the league, so it's not like he's going against 20 PPG centers every night. Their are many many many good scoring swingmen in the league.

Francis was a bad defender at PG because he doesn't commit himself defensively, and has bad defensive fundamentals. He will be even worse defensively at SG even because of the height and strength advantage the opposing players will have on him in addition to his lackadasical defense.

Another thing is that Dooling will/should not start over Nelson. They need at least one guy that's close to being a true playmaker at one of the guard spots. Dooling is a SG, not a PG, he's not really much of a passer, or playmaker, and is a shoot first guy. Having him and Francis start together would just be stupid.

I also feel Dwight Howard will move into being a guy that can play the 4/5 effectively, while also being able to play the 3 somewhat. He has broad shoulders, is a freak athlete, and is strong, and he is likely their best center right now.

[[L3]1101]

IMO, Orlando is a terrible organization. They've made many many regrettable moves. Not signing shaq, trading T-mac, trading Mobley, trading away that draft pick as Matthew had mentioned earlier, just to name a few. Oh and hiring that damn GM that knows shit about basketball who is now a HOCKEY scout....

[Andrew]

I think it would be a solid signing, so long as they plan on bringing Dooling off the bench. I too would take Francis/Nelson over Francis/Dooling, short of Dooling suddenly becoming the next John Stockton.

IMO, Orlando is a terrible organization. They've made many many regrettable moves. Not signing shaq, trading T-mac, trading Mobley, trading away that draft pick as Matthew had mentioned earlier, just to name a few. Oh and hiring that damn GM that knows shit about basketball who is now a HOCKEY scout....

I disagree about Shaq, I still believe that one came down to him wanting to be in LA.

[SixersFan538]

I live in Orlando and believe me, I think we're a joke too. What are the Magic doing? I find myself asking everyday. Ever since we hired John Weisbrod, the team has gone downhill.

Weisbrod decides last summer....why not trade T-Mac because he doesn't like me and my macho-man attitude. So he goes off and trades McGrady for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. While many people dont think this was such a bad deal, I think it was horrible. You don't go off trading a top 5 player in the league, who still has many good years ahead of him, for a point guard who will NEVER, be the PG on a championship team. You trade a top 5 player for a Over-emotional crybay (Francis) , a guy who jacks up threes all the time and doesn't know the meaning of the word "pass" (Mobley) and a Center who just stands there staring at the action (Cato).

Secondly, Weisbrod realizes that the Magic team he's built has no defense at all except for Dwight Howard and some guys on the bench like Battie and Augmon. So he goes off and trades Cuttino Mobley, who even though he didn't pass too much, he scored like 18 ppg and really helped our team when we were down in the 2nd half, who was one of the reasons why the Magic got off to a 13-5 start, for Doug Christie. I couldn't believe what I was hearing when the trade was announced during the Magic-Celtics game. He tried to get defense with Christie, but what does Christie do when he comes here? He plays a few games, does SHIT, and then gets injured. Then, he starts crying about it and demands a trade.

Thirdly, the Magic have gone the cheap way with every coach they have ever hired. I just don't get it, Owner, Rich DeVos who is worth over 2.6 BILLION dollars, is too cheap to pay a coach at least 6-9 million dollars for a 5 year contract? I mean give me a break, he has a bunch of investors with the Magic as well, so not all of it is coming out of his pocket.
The Magic were close to signing Flip Saunders, but they decided to opt for Brian Hill, who isn't really a bad coach, but I don't think he'll really make a difference.

If the Magic wanted a new arena, they screwed their chances because they trade T-Mac, who basically everyone in the United States knows, for Steve Francis, who only Magic Fans, and people who know a bit of basketball know. I really think that we need a superstar player in order to get a new arena.

The Only good moves Weisbord made were Drafting Dwight and Jameer, and signing Hedo Turkoglu to the MLE, and firing Johnny Davis (Who isn't cut out to be a head coach, but a GREAT assistant coach.)

The Assistant/Co GM's of the Magic now, Otis Smith and Dave Twardzik are the biggest fools I have ever seen in my life. What are they thinking drafting Fran Vazquez (who is still in Spain negotiating his buyout) over Antoine Wright, Joey Graham, Gerald Green, Sean May, Rashad McCants, and many other great players available at that positon. I dont know if they were on crack or something because May would've been the best choice if they wanted a PF/C and Wright Green or Graham would've worked at SG even though graham would eventually replace Hill. Next in the 2nd round, they essentially trade away Martnyas Andrikevicius for nothing. He would've been a good project, and maybe could've been a good Center sometime in his NBA career. Then we get Marcian "Martian" Gortat, who I still haven't ever heard of before the draft, I'm not sure if he was even projected to be picked.

Then they go off and Sign Dooling. Now this is a big IF. IF the magic start dooling, then the GM's should be literally fired on the spot by someone sensible in the Magic Front Office. If Dooling is like the 7th man or something and Jameer Starts, then its a pretty solid signing since Dooling can massacre opponents 2nd strings.

If I were the GM, I would spend the rest of the MLE on a good backup Center or Power Forward. I would then proceed to trade Francis for a SG such as Ray Allen, a SF such as Maggette (along with Marko Jaric), a SF such as Ron Artest (With a Re-signed Jamaal Tinsley) or another player who can Fill the SG or SF role, since Hill can play PG/SG/SF.

I would then trade Kelvin Cato and Doug Christie (two expirings) for contracts expiring in the next next offseason (when Grant Hill expires) so that we have a good amount of cap space to re-sign Dwight to a max deal, and then go after one of the many great FA's available then.

This was probably my longest post on any forum ever.

[[Q]]

didn't they draft Dooling?