"Bible Basics"
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by bullsfan009 on Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:10 am
I want to get into the different general themes of the Bible a little later, but do some more background first:
Who wrote the Bible?
This is a subject that hundreds of books have dealt with. Go to a big bookstore like Barnes & Noble or Borders and to the religion section, and you'll see that it would take a good chunk of your entire life to read all of those books on it.
Here is are some of the general thoughts on it:
Both the Old Testament and New Testament have many authors, and the authors are more like editors than authors. For example, the four Gospels of the New Testament (The Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), are said to have been written by the person it is named for (for example, the Book of John was written by the apostle John).
But in these books, there is information about the birth of Jesus, and even before that time. The apostles were believed to be a similar age to Jesus, and only met Jesus as an adult, so how could they have recorded information about his birth and childhood?
The answer is that there were many sources, people recording events before and during the time of Jesus, that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John conferred with as they were putting togther their book. They used their knowledge and experience of Jesus & his life to verify which sources were good, and which were not, then added whatever they needed to add, and then put it all together in the end. So really they were editors, not authors.
There are some books believed to be written entirely by one person, like the final book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation, is believed to be by John. That one was easy, though, because John says within the text that he's writing the book. Most of the books in the Old and New Testaments were not that way.
To answer Cloudy's question from above, yes, it's said that Moses was the author of the first 5 books of the Old Testament (the "Torah"). But he had to have had many sources that he used to compile the books, because he obviously wasn't around "in the beginning," and also the 5th book describes Moses' death.
Many scholars today have problems with the text of the Bible, saying that there are inconsistencies and contradictions in it. Which is true- there are.
For example, the 4 Gospels describe the life of Jesus, and in them, certain events (like certain miracles) are not in the same chronological order in all the books. Also, varying accounts of the same stories differ sometimes.
Also, some passages in certain books are very different in style from the other passages in those same books. Once again, this is because of the sources. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Moses, and all the other authors of the Bible were really a combination of author and editor. It's normal that their different sources' styles varied, and thus the final book seemed to be by many different people (which it really was).
The Bible cannot be judged and analyzed as a "Ferrari" text when it really was written as a "Toyota" text. It's over 1500 years old! The main purpose was to get all the literature together. There was no publisher & team of editors to polish it up- they didn't care about that.
Who wrote the Bible?
This is a subject that hundreds of books have dealt with. Go to a big bookstore like Barnes & Noble or Borders and to the religion section, and you'll see that it would take a good chunk of your entire life to read all of those books on it.
Here is are some of the general thoughts on it:
Both the Old Testament and New Testament have many authors, and the authors are more like editors than authors. For example, the four Gospels of the New Testament (The Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), are said to have been written by the person it is named for (for example, the Book of John was written by the apostle John).
But in these books, there is information about the birth of Jesus, and even before that time. The apostles were believed to be a similar age to Jesus, and only met Jesus as an adult, so how could they have recorded information about his birth and childhood?
The answer is that there were many sources, people recording events before and during the time of Jesus, that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John conferred with as they were putting togther their book. They used their knowledge and experience of Jesus & his life to verify which sources were good, and which were not, then added whatever they needed to add, and then put it all together in the end. So really they were editors, not authors.
There are some books believed to be written entirely by one person, like the final book of the Bible, the Book of Revelation, is believed to be by John. That one was easy, though, because John says within the text that he's writing the book. Most of the books in the Old and New Testaments were not that way.
To answer Cloudy's question from above, yes, it's said that Moses was the author of the first 5 books of the Old Testament (the "Torah"). But he had to have had many sources that he used to compile the books, because he obviously wasn't around "in the beginning," and also the 5th book describes Moses' death.
Many scholars today have problems with the text of the Bible, saying that there are inconsistencies and contradictions in it. Which is true- there are.
For example, the 4 Gospels describe the life of Jesus, and in them, certain events (like certain miracles) are not in the same chronological order in all the books. Also, varying accounts of the same stories differ sometimes.
Also, some passages in certain books are very different in style from the other passages in those same books. Once again, this is because of the sources. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Moses, and all the other authors of the Bible were really a combination of author and editor. It's normal that their different sources' styles varied, and thus the final book seemed to be by many different people (which it really was).
The Bible cannot be judged and analyzed as a "Ferrari" text when it really was written as a "Toyota" text. It's over 1500 years old! The main purpose was to get all the literature together. There was no publisher & team of editors to polish it up- they didn't care about that.Last edited by bullsfan009 on Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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How come God talks to them but not to us?by Strike Freedom on Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:52 pm
bullsfan009 wrote:I've never heard about that- Christianity was the official religion of Rome by A.D. 400, wasn't it? After Constantine? What was their reason for confiscating the Bibles?SO wrote:It was strange why the Roman Empire tried to confiscate all the bibles in the "dark" ages.. after the age of NT till 1400's ? or earlier.
The saints in Smyrna were persecuted by the Roman Emperors, beginning with evil Caesar Nero and then Constantine the Great..
They couldn't destroy them all because the more they killed, the more Christians there were. so after turning Roman Empire into a belief and accept any kind of people, then a kind of hierachy system was set up. Then bibles were only able be read by the priests and bishop etc, but not the believers. So most of them didn't have the bibles and bibles were also burnt.
It was until 1600's +-, then invented the printing stuff which is similar to photocopy machine today. It was then the bible was revived, as it was mass reproduced after then.
(These are what i've heard.)
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by bullsfan009 on Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:16 pm
The printing press is what it was called, and I just checked on the internet: it was invention in about 1440. The Protestant Reformation took advantage of this- Martin Luther was upset that the general public couldn't read the Bible, and they had go through the priests to know anything.
By "them" do you mean the apostles? I'm not sure. Some people would make the argument that God does talk to people, some through visions, some through events that happen in their lives. But I know what you're saying- it seemed like these apostles had God on speed-dial on their cell phones, when people nowadays have to use interpretation and more belief to "hear" God. I don't know the reason there...
Cloudy wrote:How come God talks to them but not to us?
By "them" do you mean the apostles? I'm not sure. Some people would make the argument that God does talk to people, some through visions, some through events that happen in their lives. But I know what you're saying- it seemed like these apostles had God on speed-dial on their cell phones, when people nowadays have to use interpretation and more belief to "hear" God. I don't know the reason there...
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by Ruff Ryder on Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:53 am
Drex wrote:Nowadays, when you're talking to God, people think you're crazy and have issues
*Cough"George Bush*Cough*
'Retired'
"You can’t drive a knife into a man’s back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."-Malcolm X
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by Indy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:21 am
bullsfan009 wrote:Cloudy wrote:How come God talks to them but not to us?
By "them" do you mean the apostles? I'm not sure. Some people would make the argument that God does talk to people, some through visions, some through events that happen in their lives. But I know what you're saying- it seemed like these apostles had God on speed-dial on their cell phones, when people nowadays have to use interpretation and more belief to "hear" God. I don't know the reason there...
I'm sort of going to humor myself here for a second, what if god died? Don't you think thats a possibility?
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by bullsfan009 on Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:30 am
IndyPacers67 wrote:I'm sort of going to humor myself here for a second, what if god died? Don't you think thats a possibility?
Well, in a way, he did. According to belief, Jesus was 100% man + 100% God when he was on earth, and he died. That's really confusing, I know...
But God the Father? Could He die? I don't think that's even possible. He's immortal, he's all-powerful & all-knowing, and knows only the boundaries he puts on himself. But what's confusing is this question: WAS GOD BORN? You know, how did God come into existence? And if he was born, then according to the way stuff works down here, he could die, right?
I personally don't think so, but that's some crazy stuff to think about
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by Ruff Ryder on Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:45 am
Well God's not really a person or thing. Just a being.
'Retired'
"You can’t drive a knife into a man’s back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."-Malcolm X
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by AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:47 am
I'm sort of going to humor myself here for a second, what if god died? Don't you think thats a possibility?
You must be a fan of Nietsche... that's exactly what he suggested...
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AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy - Posts: 5190
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by Indy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:59 am
Remy Gambit wrote:Well God's not really a person or thing. Just a being.
How do you know that? Did he tell you that?
You must be a fan of Nietsche... that's exactly what he suggested...
Not really, I was just bringing it up.
I believe there is no god and never was a god, but I also believe that it is plausible that there was a creator, and he/she/it died.
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by cyanide on Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:11 am
IndyPacers67 wrote:I believe there is no god and never was a god, but I also believe that it is plausible that there was a creator, and he/she/it died.
That sounds just as "plausible" as some white bearded guy that's called "God." I don't believe in either a creator that died, or some guy in a white beard that's called God.
if you were killed tomorrow, i WOULDNT GO 2 UR FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN THE MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED U!
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cyanide - Dat steatopygous
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by AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:14 am
Not really, I was just bringing it up.
Then I suggest you read a bit of his works... especially Zaratustra... might look like a bunch of gibberish at first, but there are certain moments that you will get the point, depending on your state of mind at that time...
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by cyanide on Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:18 am
Zarathustra, wasn't that his first work, or longest work?
I recently bought The Antichrist by Nietzsche. I tried to start reading it, but it was way too depressing for me to continue, so I'll put it off till my life gets all happy again
I recently bought The Antichrist by Nietzsche. I tried to start reading it, but it was way too depressing for me to continue, so I'll put it off till my life gets all happy again
if you were killed tomorrow, i WOULDNT GO 2 UR FUNERAL CUZ ID B N JAIL 4 KILLIN THE MOTHA FUCKER THAT KILLED U!
......|..___________________, ,
....../ `---______----|]
...../==o;;;;;;;;______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
..//___//
.//___//
WE TRUE HOMIES
WE RIDE TOGETHER
WE DIE TOGETHER
......|..___________________, ,
....../ `---______----|]
...../==o;;;;;;;;______.:/
.....), ---.(_(__) /
....// (..) ), ----"
...//___//
..//___//
.//___//
WE TRUE HOMIES
WE RIDE TOGETHER
WE DIE TOGETHER
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cyanide - Dat steatopygous
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by Strike Freedom on Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:10 am
bullsfan009 wrote:IndyPacers67 wrote:I'm sort of going to humor myself here for a second, what if god died? Don't you think thats a possibility?
Well, in a way, he did. According to belief, Jesus was 100% man + 100% God when he was on earth, and he died. That's really confusing, I know...
3 days later he was ressurected, which means he overcame death.
He died just to fulfill his righteous requirement.
In the OT, if you sin you get to be thrown stones to death.
The consequence of sin is death... One person may die for another person's sin, but not all people.
So in NT, God came as a man to die for us all, so that we no longer need to die anymore when we sin. Just need to repent and confess.
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by AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:23 am
Zarathustra, wasn't that his first work, or longest work?
Don't know exactly, but when you try reading it you discern that it is the work of a madman or genius... I think Nietzsche was too much of a genius to be considered sane anyway...
I recently bought The Antichrist by Nietzsche. I tried to start reading it, but it was way too depressing for me to continue, so I'll put it off till my life gets all happy again
Books like taht tend to be appreciated when the reader himself has an open mind or is in a state of open-mindedness or trance... only then coudl i ever begin to comprehend Nietzsche's work... but when I did, it was simply astounding... you have to feel it to believe it...
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by COOLmac© on Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:29 am
a lot of confused people here...not to worry when i'm fully back i'll take time to help bullsfan on this one..but in the meantime i'll just finished up the more serious note in my life....."promotion" see you guys around......enjoy life without coolmac for the time being
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by bullsfan009 on Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:55 pm
Major characters of the Bible in Chronological Order
God (self-explanatory)
Adam & Eve (first humans)
Noah (flood)
Abraham (the patriarch of the Hebrew people)
Isaac (son of Abraham)
Jacob (father of the twelve sons that form the tribes of Israel, grandson of Abraham)
Joseph (dreamcoat)
Moses (lead people out of Egypt, 10 Commandments)
Aaron (brother of Moses)
Joshua (son & successor of Moses)
Sampson (strength)
Samuel (prophet)
David (king, David & Goliath)
Solomon (king, son of David)
Elijah (prophet)
Elisha (prophet & successor of Elijah)
Isaiah (prophet who prophesizes about Jesus)
Job (endured great suffering but would not curse God)
Jeremiah (outspoken & bold prophet)
Ezekiel (prophet)
Daniel (safe in the Lion's den)
Jonah (swallowed by great fish/whale)
------------END OF OLD TESTAMENT--------------------
God (self-explanatory)
Adam & Eve (first humans)
Noah (flood)
Abraham (the patriarch of the Hebrew people)
Isaac (son of Abraham)
Jacob (father of the twelve sons that form the tribes of Israel, grandson of Abraham)
Joseph (dreamcoat)
Moses (lead people out of Egypt, 10 Commandments)
Aaron (brother of Moses)
Joshua (son & successor of Moses)
Sampson (strength)
Samuel (prophet)
David (king, David & Goliath)
Solomon (king, son of David)
Elijah (prophet)
Elisha (prophet & successor of Elijah)
Isaiah (prophet who prophesizes about Jesus)
Job (endured great suffering but would not curse God)
Jeremiah (outspoken & bold prophet)
Ezekiel (prophet)
Daniel (safe in the Lion's den)
Jonah (swallowed by great fish/whale)
------------END OF OLD TESTAMENT--------------------
Last edited by bullsfan009 on Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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by bullsfan009 on Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:26 am
more coming next week, including the characters of the new testament, & the teachings of Jesus
thanks for listening/reading, have a good weekend
thanks for listening/reading, have a good weekend
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by Indy on Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:29 am
bullsfan009 wrote:Issac (son of Abraham)
No no no no no no no no no no no NO NO NO NO
It is spelled Isaac. That is my name, I fucking hate when people spell it Issac. Even the bible freak here spells it Issac, its ISAAC
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