Greatest Player

[J@3]

Who are u talkin to? Shortodie?

Yep.

[Shortodie]

to jae

[Amphatoast]

hmm COOLMAC the 2nd? 42posts in 1day

[Sauru]

You've started 4 topics... 3 of which were in the wrong section, and one of them I'm not even sure wtf was going on there. Post things in the right places, and yes, people DO go to NBA Talk... probably moreso than 2005 General Issues.

it has more total posts than any other forum, thats gotta mean something huh?

[Amphatoast]

its just the IQ of a spammer

[Strike Freedom]

To be fair, lets assume Wilt as a 90's player.
Suppose Wilt is still alive n young today(1e, aged between 25-30), i wouldn't think he can score 50 ppg anymore because it's not easy to score against O'neal that manytime.
imo i believe it has something to do with the defense at that time.
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[Fitzy]

Whats a spammer?

[NNpF]

Whats a spammer?

Basically a person who posts just because he/she can, not to contribute in anyway to the forum.

Shortodie, I don't mean to be mean...But I can kind of see a trend in your threads. Are you being paid by the Bulls to go onto internet forums and spread the word of how "great" they are?

Because it kind of seems like your just starting threads to "show off" the Bulls.

[Fitzy]

Ok then now I know

[Ataraxia]

hmm COOLMAC the 2nd? 42posts in 1day

thats nothing, I had like 110 posts on day 1.

edit : Greatest Player - Wilt, Greatest Winner - MJ

[J@3]

Shortodie, I don't mean to be mean...But I can kind of see a trend in your threads. Are you being paid by the Bulls to go onto internet forums and spread the word of how "great" they are?

LOL! If I were them I'd be asking for my fuckin money back.

[#12]

To be fair, lets assume Wilt as a 90's player.
Suppose Wilt is still alive n young today(1e, aged between 25-30), i wouldn't think he can score 50 ppg anymore because it's not easy to score against O'neal that manytime.
imo i believe it has something to do with the defense at that time.
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also he would be averaging 1.5 women a day

[Amphatoast]

in the 90s he woulda gotten hiv before he reached his 500th woman

[Andrew]

92 and 96 olympics could of easily been won without jordan on the team, and thats a well-known and obvious fact, the only thing jordan has is entertainment value in era of flash and color, but domination of stats still win in my book

So you're saying that Michael Jordan was simply an entertainer? Because there's hours of tape and some statistics that say that he was a little more than that.

[Boyk]

If were gonna say who the best player is on his success, then we say Bill Russell

[Sauru]

To be fair, lets assume Wilt as a 90's player.
Suppose Wilt is still alive n young today(1e, aged between 25-30), i wouldn't think he can score 50 ppg anymore because it's not easy to score against O'neal that manytime.
imo i believe it has something to do with the defense at that time.
---

i honestly dont think Wilt in his prime would have any trouble scoring on shaq. unlike most of todays centers wilt actually had moves. people always talk of the dreams moves but no one actually mentions all the shit wilt actually could do. he was not just a pure brute like shaq is and force his way to the hoop for 2. he actually had a style in his game and a huge array(spelling?) of shots to pick from. nah i dont think shaq would be a problem for him at all.

now all that being said i also agree that there is no way he would average 50 a game for a season. being a center in a league where point guards rather shoot than pass the ball, in a league where imo the coaching is far better, and also in a league where everyones ego's are way worse than they were back then would prevent this. to score 50 a game he would be shooting a ton of shots and even though that was ok and accepted back then, in todays game his team would quit on him and slam him daily in the media. as for the coaching thing, teams would make thier entire game plan based on stopping him from scoring and force his teammates to win it, and since he would be a known ballhog no big names would actually sign with that team so....

anyway i think i looked too deep into it so i shut up now

[fgrep15]

I don't think he'd have trouble scoring on Shaq myself, but he can't average 50 PPG because no coach now will leave their player in for 48 MPG every game, the coaches now will know how to prevent him from getting the ball. Their's not enough shots being taken in a game for him to have the oppurtunity, unless he took a very very large chunk of his teams shots.

[Indy]

Shortodie... you are a fucking moron.

with that said.

Jordan IS the best player to ever play basketball, followed by Ron Mercer.

[Jona]

Yup, Shortodie seems to be the result of incestuous engagement.

Michael Jordan is simply the best player in NBA history. Period.

[FendeR`]

Shortodie, honestly, do you have a mental problem?

MJ hands down is the best player in history. Wilt played with less competition and less strategy. He was great no doubt, but MJ still was better.

[Chris_23]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan is the best player ever to play the game of basketball.

But as he himself said, there will be someone better than him. Someday, in the far future. Kobe, Iverson, Carter and James arent the ones.

Michael was an example of perfect leader (perhaps only one player can be as great as him in that category, and thats Bill Felton Russell).

Michael was one of the few to hold discipline in honor, to build around it. He made the team around him fight better and fight hard. He was one of the key figures in making Rodman who he was. And Michael brought up his own partner, Scottie Pippen, building a duo worthy to stand the test of time.

Michael was one of the most intelligent men to play the ball. Something that can be said only to a few players in the history of the league. Along with Earvin "Magic" Johnson and Larry Joe Bird.

Michael Jordan found motivation in things that has brought down many players in the history of the league. He found motivation in critique, his egoistic strong will to try and prove others wrong. He was critiqued to be a ballhog, so he worked hard to make himself one of the strongest leaders and teammates in the history. He was critiqued not to be able to shoot threes, yet he proved in more than one instance that he can do it. He was critiqued not to be able to defend so well in his early years, so he worked hard to become one of the best defenders in the league.

You can compare early championship Bulls with the later one. In both, Michael was already a complete player in offense and defense wise, but yet different. He became a leader at such a young age, being on-court coach. He proved critics wrong early 90s. He did so again late 90s by building a team which became one of the stronger teams ever to play the ball.

Besides all that, he became an icon in the sports. Air Jordan. A near myth. A respectful man known by so many.

He himself said that each night he played for those who came to see him for the first time, and for those who will never see him play the ball again.

With such a fame and popularity, there are critics and people who disliked that.

All Jordan did was prove them wrong again... Egoistic yes, but he gave so much of himself to achieve that. When was the last time you saw someone so happy when winning the title as he did in the first time. And as he did after his fathers death.

Try and watch into those eyes and say that this was not a man who gave his best to achieve all that. Who loved the game he played. He was not perfect. Neither am I or any of you.

He returned as a Wizard just to play more... And he proved his critics wrong again, 40 year old and still showing the excellence you cant find in nowadays players. He was the one and only.

Just like every other future star needs to be his own one and only.

Michael Jordan is the best player ever to play the game of basketball.

But one day there will be someone better than him. Either due to the strain of time or push of media, or just pure excellence on the court, it doesnt matter.

But Michael will never be forgotten.

[GloveGuy]

Raise your hand if you ever saw Wilt Chamberlain play basketball.

Raise your hand if you ever saw Michael Jordan play basketball.

I can almost guarantee that no one on this forum, not even me, has seen Wilt play. Many have seen Jordan -- though not even in his prime -- play, and dominate his competition.

Chris, that was nice and all, but tell me why Wilt Chamberlain is NOT the best basketball player of all time. I don't wanna hear something coming out of a Nike commercial.

For those who think that Shaq was dominant, lets see him match up against a 7-foot-something, 300(give-or-take) pound freak of nature. That's what Wilt was. Forget what era he played in, forget his stats. This guy was a combination of Shaquille O'Neal's physical dominance with Kevin Garnett's atleticism -- dominating in other sports such as volleyball, football, and the high jump. I have little doubt that he would be the best player in the league today. And this is only based off of what I've heard.

That said, I have little doubt that if Michael Jordan(pick an era, I'll choose pre-1st retirement) would be the best player in the league today if he were part of it. Had he wanted to, he could have swept the whole 1990s in championship rings. Unlike Wilt, who was an abysmal free throw shooter, this guy had no weaknesses. Without Mike, the nineties is an era of centers, but instead, it's the Michael Jordan era.

I can only come to the conclusion that Michael Jordan was the best player among the people he played against, Wilt being the same. These two define greatness, surprisingly doing it so differenly from each other. I love MJ, but I can't call him the greatest baketball player of all time as a fact.

[The GOAT]

Raise your hand if you ever saw Wilt Chamberlain play basketball.

Raise your hand if you ever saw Michael Jordan play basketball.

*Raises two hands*
ESPN Classic

[Chris_23]

I also have 6 tapes from pre 90s with Jordans games. "Live" Ive seen Michael play only late 90s.´

As for Wilt no Ive not seen him "play" a full game in a row. Ive seen shows about him and his playing style. A 7'1 giant among men. Ive got the dvd "Wilt Chamberlain Greatest Sports Legend". I do know what Im talking about.

Wilt was the most dominant player in his era. And the only one with the potential to be the one and only "as such". The only years where there was competition for Wilt were the later years when he was a Sixer and a Laker. He was a massive force in rebounds and a total presence down below, but this was a league not accustomed to that. What, Kareem? Just another example like that. Just like Shaq is nowadays. As for the MVP, yes for the years Wilt played he was the MVP of the league no matter what. Team that had him was a team that won. But Wilt Chamberlain was not a player that made his team better. He had skills and height and style that dominated the league but Wilt never actually "improved" the team around him. Lakers playing style was mainly to get the ball to Wilt and get the win. This was discussed in the same dvd as well. His dominance was the fact why he managed so much, but as a basketball player, no he was not the best ever to play the game. It takes more than just good height and good post-play to be a great player. Id even say if Shaq was a player at that era, he'd be the best player, for Shaq is in fact more dominant than any other player ever to play the game. The difference is that nowadays you have ways of stopping that, tall players and great defenders are available in most teams. In 60's you really had no player to put up against Wilt Chamberlain. This was the state league was in, nothing to do about it. Nowadays, Wilt playing, he'd be great yes but he'd be handled real well by Ben Wallace's D, and he'd have trouble against many other centres in the league. Also, while Russell was a great defender, Wilt wasnt. You can also not forget the in-the-paint rules in the league nowadays. Wilt was constantly below the basket waiting for the ball. Set Yao in the same ruleset and youve got a guy averaging 40ppg in 70s.

MJ however didnt have that height advantage, for he was a guard. Better defender, definetly better shooter for obvious reasons, made his team better around him, and other thigns I said before...

It takes more than being a dominant force below the basket to become the best PLAYER to play the game ever. All around, Michael Jordan was more complete player than Wilt Chamberlain, this you really cannot argue. And stats, Ive never cared about stats as some force behind a statement when the league situation and general difference is so big.

I consider Shaq greater player than Wilt Chamberlain had they played at the same time, but really...

As far as complete play goes, Michael is the most complete player ever to play the league, not just offensively but also in the defensive end. Being such a leader as no one had seen since Bill Russell was amazing.

So there you have it. Im loving this discussion though and respect what youve written Gloveguy. One of the few whos opinion I respect around here in the matters of objective approach to NBA basketball. Damn I hate those "nah he is better nah lbj is the best ever beating 80 points soon" stuff.

Thanks, its interesting.

[j.23]

I can only come to the conclusion that Michael Jordan was the best player among the people he played against, Wilt being the same. These two define greatness, surprisingly doing it so differenly from each other. I love MJ, but I can't call him the greatest baketball player of all time as a fact.

probably the most unbiased answer you can ever get
i ride michael jordan's jockstrap but i do agree with that statement.














actually, mike was a little bit better