Isiah asks Carter

[scubilete]

Just out of interest, if this was any other player except Michael Jordan (who you don't seem to like), would you feel this way?

I didn't care that Iverson or T-mac offered theirs.

Quote:
Good to see him missing dunks again. Go MJ.

What one? Typical hater comment.

Did you see the Game Clinton?!!!!!!!!

Did you guys see the damn Trophy?????, It is huge. I bet Stern thought Jordan was going to get it and made it that way. Too bad MJ didn't get it, I bet was going to be the biggest trophy MJ was going to have at home.

Third, there's the thing about haters. Every comment about Carter is passed without any comment, then Jordan misses a dunk, it's posted, and boosh! a hater shows himself... hypocrites.

If anyone misses a dunk is going to be critized, that's not being hypocrite. Dominique did, he got critized, MJ did it 2 or 3 times, you can't complain for it, he's going to be critized. If Carter would have missed, he would get critized as well.

I understand by hypocrite: Those who say something on your face and as soon you turn your back they start saying the opposite. Hypocrite are those who want you to think something about what they think when they really don't think that way.

We are just expressing what we really think, and critized the fact that just cause T-mac & Iverson offered their spots they turned every attention to Carter trying to say he didn't deserve his, something I don't agree because fans voted for him so he did.

[Rens]

Third, there's the thing about haters. Every comment about Carter is passed without any comment, then Jordan misses a dunk, it's posted, and boosh! a hater shows himself... hypocrites.

If anyone misses a dunk is going to be critized, that's not being hypocrite. Dominique did, he got critized, MJ did it 2 or 3 times, you can't complain for it, he's going to be critized. If Carter would have missed, he would get critized as well.

I understand by hypocrite: Those who say something on your face and as soon you turn your back they start saying the opposite. Hypocrite are those who want you to think something about what they think when they really don't think that way.

We are just expressing what we really think, and critized the fact that just cause T-mac & Iverson offered their spots they turned every attention to Carter trying to say he didn't deserve his, something I don't agree because fans voted for him so he did.

Read it again scub.. hypocrites are the ones who instantly call people who makes comments about Jordan a hater, but not people who make comments about Carter.

[Wall St. Peon]

No, he got in because it was his last ever All Star game. If this was his second last year, he wouldn't get the starting spot. We are farewelling a legend. Just like Magic in 92.

Well, what about Malone, Stockton, and Robinson. Where were their honorary spots on the All-Star team? It's their last seasons, and the first two are playing better than Jordan...Stockton and Malone and Robinson are legends, don't they deserve one last All-Star game? No?

It was his reputation. Period. If it was because it was their last season, the All-Star game would be a joke because the NBA would do that for every player.

No, because as I'll say again, it's MJ's last All Star game. It would be wrong not to include him.

But isn't it wrong to make someone else come from the bench for someone who isn't even playing well? It'd be wrong to start someone who's a shell of who they used to be over someone who's young and healthy and exciting; the West took that route and didn't even put quality players such as Malone, Stockton, and Robinson for that reason, why'd the East do different? It was Jordan and his reputation. Period.

He also didn't have half the game MJ had. So it took a while to get his shot going, but we got to see some classic plays and a great buzzer beater.

Took a while? You're kidding me...he barely made a third of his shots, and it's not like he took 10 of them - he took 27! Now, really, aside from the buzzer beater, Jordan played horribly and showed that he can't compete like he used to. It was depressing, really, to see him miss layups and dunks. The only reason Jordan took the last THREE buzzer beater shots was beause Thomas wanted his friend to go out in style again...not because Thomas wanted his team to win. The announcers even said that...

Way to ignore the rest of my post...I might just start calling you 'EG'...

[MC Hao]

oops!! jordan missed an easy dunk, again!
sad to see that!

There were a lot of missed dunks or failed ally oops attempts in that game, so I didn't think Jordan's missed dunk was a big deal.

[scubilete]

Read it again scub.. hypocrites are the ones who instantly call people who makes comments about Jordan a hater, but not people who make comments about Carter.

Ok, my bad, thought you were complaining cause we were talking about Jordan missed dunk.

Anyway

Did you guys see the damn Trophy?????, It is huge. I bet Stern thought Jordan was going to get it and made it that way. Too bad MJ didn't get it, I bet was going to be the biggest trophy MJ was going to have at home.

Ha ha ha ha, , a trophy made for MJ is stolen. Garnett was trying to lift it, so everyone would be able to see it. lol

[TheBob]

Oh my where do I start?

silly Carter just proved to be one of the worst defenders in the league...

Ya he must really suck to not be able to guard an elite big man who's 6 inches taller than him in the post...silly Vince...

Jordan's shot...unbelievable...

Ya that he finally made one...

it's goot that carter let jordan start...if carter would have started he would have screwed the game up even more...

I've just lost all respect for you, this is one of the most idiotic comments I've ever heard. How could Carter have made it any worse? Jordan did miss his first 8 shots...he also went on to miss 2 layups and a dunk...

Walker and PIece sucked bad...

They both shot higher percentages than Jordan...

Jordan should hasve dunked it...

He tried but bricked it, remember?

[MC Hao]

I've just lost all respect for you, this is one of the most idiotic comments I've ever heard.

Bob, I started laughing when I saw that line. You sounded like Bill Walton!! *COUGH*Overstatement!*COUGH* LOL...

[TheBob]

What? Llamaj Mim disagreeing with me? Never...

[GloveGuy]

Walker and Pierce didn't suck. They just got no play. You could say that Ilgauskus sucked but that's cause he only played 4 minutes. Yeah, Walker sucked on Saturday but he wasn't that bad on Sunday.

Michael might've missed his first eight shots but he was still great. The shot over Marion was unbelievable and you can't blame him for getting his shot blocked a second left in the first overtime. All he could do was catch and shoot. It was his night. MJ appreciation night. No one has the right to insult him because of his game.

[scubilete]

It was his night. MJ appreciation night. No one has the right to insult him because of his game.

Yeah, I agree. MJ got some of his shots blocked, , did anyone on the court had any respect for MJ that would let him win his "last all star game"?. Not only that but Kevin just stole his trophy , the biggest trophy ever given to anyone in the NBA history, it was for MJ and he couldn't get it, .

[Clinton]

Nobody seems to have a problem with Yao starting, even if he doesn't deserve it.

I do. I'm glad Shaq showed who the real starter should have been in the game.

Shaq missed half the season up until now, yet he deserves it according to everyone. Carter returns from his injury, leads his team to wins, yet he doesn't deserve it... hypocrites.

Carter has played all of what...15 games all season. Shaq has played 35. He has played more then double the games Carter has and has been getting more wins for the Lakers then Carter has got for the Raps. Shaq deserved the starting spot because of his play THIS season. Carter didn't.

Last All Star game or not, he didn't deserve to be there based on his play this year.

He wasn't picked for the team for his play. Players didn't offer their spots because of his play this season. They did it because it is Michael Jordan and it is his last All Star game. Isiah stepped aside in '92 (I think), so Magic could start in his last All Star game, he didn't deserve it, but it was Magic. Did you have a problem with that, did anyone who has a problem with MJ starting in his last allstar game have a problem with it when Magic did it. Haters.

Well, what about Malone, Stockton, and Robinson. Where were their honorary spots on the All-Star team? It's their last seasons, and the first two are playing better than Jordan..

That's why I can't win this argument, when your hate for a player is so big that you can make comments like that..."first two players are playing better then MJ (Malone and Stock) What a joke. It's too hard to get through to you when you hate a player that much.

Way to ignore the rest of my post...I might just start calling you 'EG'...

Didn't ignore it, I read it, just didn't think it was worth replying to.

[Rens]

I do. I'm glad Shaq showed who the real starter should have been in the game.

Yes and you've made such a big point out of it... defending it to anyone.. what I was talking about is that this is becoming a big issue while that's being let go. It's always easy to say "I've supported that all along" when you haven't said anything on the subject before.

Shaq missed half the season up until now, yet he deserves it according to everyone. Carter returns from his injury, leads his team to wins, yet he doesn't deserve it... hypocrites.

Carter has played all of what...15 games all season. Shaq has played 35. He has played more then double the games Carter has and has been getting more wins for the Lakers then Carter has got for the Raps. Shaq deserved the starting spot because of his play THIS season. Carter didn't.

Ofcourse Shaq has gotten his team more wins he's played more games. Raptors are 8-6 with Carter (not counting the one game in which he played only 6 minutes). Lakers 21-14 with Shaq. That's 60% for the Lakers with Shaq, 57% for the Raptors with Carter.. big difference huh.

He wasn't picked for the team for his play. Players didn't offer their spots because of his play this season. They did it because it is Michael Jordan and it is his last All Star game. Isiah stepped aside in '92 (I think), so Magic could start in his last All Star game, he didn't deserve it, but it was Magic. Did you have a problem with that, did anyone who has a problem with MJ starting in his last allstar game have a problem with it when Magic did it. Haters.

Funny how Carter needs to be selecteed based on his play this season, while Jordan doesn't.

That's why I can't win this argument, when your hate for a player is so big that you can make comments like that..."first two players are playing better then MJ (Malone and Stock) What a joke. It's too hard to get through to you when you hate a player that much.

How about we turn that around. Your love for Jordan is so big you can't rationally see that other players might be more deserving for the All-Star/play better than Jordan.

Malone: 20.2ppg (45% shooting), 8.3rpg, 4.2apg, 1.54spg, 36.4mpg
Stockton: 11.1ppg (46% shooting), 7.7apg, 1.1spg, 28.1mpg
Jordan: 18.8ppg (44% shooting), 5.4rpg, 3.9apg, 1.67spg, 35.4mpg
Robinson: 9.4ppg(47% shooting), 8.7rpg, 1apg, 1.91bpg, 27.8mpg

Draw your own conclusions I guess.

[Rens]

I just found this

There were reports following the all-star game in Atlanta that Carter's last-minute decision to give up his spot to Jordan came after the Eastern Conference coach, Isiah Thomas, wouldn't let anyone leave the dressing room until one of the five starters, voted in by the fans, gave up their spot. Thomas said later that none of the guys would go out on the floor unless Jordan started the game.

[Clinton]

It's always easy to say "I've supported that all along" when you haven't said anything on the subject before.

Not in this thread, but I have made posts in different threads voicing my opinion on the Ming-Shaq situation. It has always been the same.

Lakers 21-14 with Shaq. That's 60% for the Lakers with Shaq, 57% for the Raptors with Carter.. big difference huh.

Well lets just see how the Raps go with Vince for 30 games, see if they have a close winning percentage then. Easy to win a few games on a run, see if they can go on as many streaks as the Lakers have.

Funny how Carter needs to be selecteed based on his play this season, while Jordan doesn't.

How long will this take to get through. IT WAS MICHAEL JORDANS LAST NBA ALL STAR GAME. He earnt this starting job the past 15+ years.

Your love for Jordan is so big you can't rationally see that other players might be more deserving for the All-Star/play better than Jordan.

Rens, you know all I have been saying is MJ should start because it's his last year not because he deserves it on his play. I have agreed with you all the time when you mention Mashburn and Walker and whoever else being more deserving on this seasons performances.

Malone: 20.2ppg (45% shooting), 8.3rpg, 4.2apg, 1.54spg, 36.4mpg

First option on his team. Has the height and size to rebound, MJ doesn't. Doesn't shoothalf the jumpers MJ does, in the post a lot, therefore has a better %

Stockton: 11.1ppg (46% shooting), 7.7apg, 1.1spg, 28.1mpg

Not as good as numbers as MJ. Not as many minutes but I don't think Stockton could ever average 18ppg.

Robinson: 9.4ppg(47% shooting), 8.7rpg, 1apg, 1.91bpg, 27.8mpg

Again has the height to rebound. Also stays around the basket so has a higher %.

[Wall St. Peon]

How long will this take to get through. IT WAS MICHAEL JORDANS LAST NBA ALL STAR GAME. He earnt this starting job the past 15+ years.

SO WHAT. He played in every all-star game...and he's had two different retirement parties...it's been done before. What about Stockton and Malone and Robinson? They haven't done anything in their careers? I think they have...and if you don't, well, you're a hater...

Rens, you know all I have been saying is MJ should start because it's his last year not because he deserves it on his play.

Yeah, I know, and I've been saying he didn't deserve it on his play. So if he doesn't deserve it for his play yet he should start, why are you hating on Vince Carter and Ming?

First option on his team. Has the height and size to rebound, MJ doesn't. Doesn't shoothalf the jumpers MJ does, in the post a lot, therefore has a better %


Not as good as numbers as MJ. Not as many minutes but I don't think Stockton could ever average 18ppg.


Again has the height to rebound. Also stays around the basket so has a higher %.

So what. You're missing the point, their stats are better and their careers are just as long and just as prosperous. They're all members of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players and several of them are record holders. Yet they don't deserve a spot on the All-Star team for their 15+ years of play, but MJ does because he's MJ...you're a flat out hypocrite. The point wasn't to show that they were better to MJ, it was to show that their stats were just as equal to MJ's and thus were just as deserving for the All-Star game - if not more.

[scubilete]

Clinton, I was thinking to stop posting here because I see you only like to call everyone who thinks Carter was chosen "a hater" but I see you don't know much about what you're talking about, that's why I decided to make a comment and that's why I would like to ask you, how long have you been watching games?

Isiah stepped aside in '92 (I think), so Magic could start in his last All Star game, he didn't deserve it, but it was Magic. Did you have a problem with that, did anyone who has a problem with MJ starting in his last allstar game have a problem with it when Magic did it. Haters.

I asked you that cause it would go nice if you really don't remember but that "I think" means you don't know. If Isiah would have ever played for some of the Western Conf. Teams that would be possible but he played all his career with the Pistons.

The one who offered his spot was Tim Hardaway. I'll tell you something else. Magic accepted the spot as soon it was offered, MJ didn't. Magic was not chosen for that all star at all, because he was not a player for that season, he had retired and was not in the ballot and was not in any manager's mind to include him. He asked the league to let him play in that game and they did, after the 12 players were chosen. The Western Roster for the all star was composed by 13 players against 12 from the Eastern Roster.


WEST ALL-STARS (153)
Karl Malone
Chris Mullin
David Robinson
Clyde Drexler
Earvin Johnson
Tim Hardaway
Hakeem Olajuwon
Jeff Hornacek
Otis Thorpe
James Worthy
John Stockton
Dan Majerle
Dikembe Mutombo

EAST ALL-STARS (113)
Scottie Pippen
Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Isiah Thomas
Michael Jordan
Mark Price
Brad Daugherty
Joe Dumars
Dennis Rodman
Reggie Lewis
Kevin Willis
Michael Adams
Larry Bird Selected but did not play due to injury.
Dominique Wilkins Selected but did not play due to injury.

If Magic wouldn't have accepted the spot offered he would just come from the bench. But he was not that stupid or in other words, Magic is sincere and simple, not like MJ who started with that attitude that was shown during all this time. "Well, if you guys want me to start, you'd better beg for it"

I don't know if you are blind or what!!! but that's not the way your idol or anyone should act. If T-mac offered his spot, why didn't he take it instead of showing his ego waiting for others to offer it? After all that's MJ, your idol. It is repugnant to know people follow a guy like that.

[Clinton]

I think they have...and if you don't, well, you're a hater...

I know what they have done in their careers, but they haven't done half as much as MJ.

why are you hating on Vince Carter and Ming?

I haven't hated on Ming. All I have said is Shaq deserved it more then him. Vince Carter on the other hand didn't deserve it in any way shape or form. At least Ming has been playing some good ball for more then 10 games.

were just as deserving for the All-Star game - if not more.

Have any of those three players done for the league what MJ has. They were great players but they weren't the Greatest.

Clinton, I was thinking to stop posting here because I see you only like to call everyone who thinks Carter was chosen "a hater"

No. I only said they were haters when they said MJ didn't deserve to play in his last All Star game.

but I see you don't know much about what you're talking about, that's why I decided to make a comment and that's why I would like to ask you, how long have you been watching games?

Yeah, I'm a real idiot. Don't know anything about the NBA. Sorry if I don't know every little fact, every little stat etc. But I think I know what I am talking about when it comes to basketball. I can't really be bothered checking on the facts when I'm posting. If I made a mistake, I'm sorry. I'm sure I haven't made that many to make you think I dont know anything.
To answer your question, I have been watching basketball for about 7 or 8 years (started to watch regulary around 10). I have also played for about 5 years.

The one who offered his spot was Tim Hardaway.

My bad.

but that "I think" means you don't know.

No , it means I can't remember the player who gave up the spot.

If T-mac offered his spot, why didn't he take it instead of showing his ego waiting for others to offer it?

Maybe he forgot about his ego and turned down the players who deserved their spots.

After all that's MJ, your idol.

Never said he was my idol. Never even said he was my favourite player. He's not. I just appreciate what he has done for the game and what a great player he was. He's the reason a lot of people my age started to watch basketball.

[Rens]

I think they have...and if you don't, well, you're a hater...

I know what they have done in their careers, but they haven't done half as much as MJ.

Pfft busy at school.. but I just had to reply to this.. Malone only scored more than MJ in his career...Stockton only holds all time records for assists and steals.

[scubilete]

Yeah, I'm a real idiot. Don't know anything about the NBA. Sorry if I don't know every little fact, every little stat etc.

I didn't call you that. Of course I stated if you "think" means you don't know or you are not sure cause that's the way it is. That's why I corrected who was the one offering his spot.

To answer your question, I have been watching basketball for about 7 or 8 years

Ok, that shows me you just have seen the winning years of MJ and the Bulls. That explains also why you feel like calling anyone who has a different opinion of a particular player "a hater".

History, ok, you read books and you fight for whatever you read on that book version but thru the years you will see different versions and that doesn't mean you call call them haters or liers, even though you're not supposed to call lier anyone who saw with his/her own eyes whatever you read on that book.

That would be the case with your "haters".

But I think I know what I am talking about when it comes to basketball.

Wrong, again. You think. You know what you are talking about from whatever you've seen. Obviously you haven't seen much but I agree it's not your fault, so that just explains why you act that way when you see someone talking against what you've seen.

Maybe he forgot about his ego and turned down the players who deserved their spots.

You still think Carter didn't deserve his? lol.

If I made a mistake, I'm sorry. I'm sure I haven't made that many to make you think I dont know anything.

Everyone makes mistakes, you don't have to feel sorry for that and it doesn't make me think you don't know anything. Your mistakes doesn't make me think anything about you but the way you express yourself about those who think the opposite of yours does.

I might just start calling you 'EG'

I agree.

[Clinton]

Malone only scored more than MJ in his career

In more seasons.

That explains also why you feel like calling anyone who has a different opinion of a particular player "a hater".

Where are you getting this idea that I am calling everyone haters. I have said it to a couple of people who said MJ didn't deserve the start. I believe you are a hater if you don't give MJ his props even though you may not like him. When you are so blinded by your hate for a player that you can't admit what he has done for the game.

Ok, that shows me you just have seen the winning years of MJ and the Bulls.

And what does this have to do with this conversation. There has been nothing mentioned in this post that would need knowledge from before that era in the NBA.

You still think Carter didn't deserve his?

He didn't. Give me one good reason apart from "the fans voted him in" why he deserved that spot.

[scubilete]

And what does this have to do with this conversation.

Well, it does have to do much cause you are complaining for those who think MJ was not supposed to start, and all you know about MJ is those winning years when he learned to pass the ball in order to win and now it would show that he deserved it.

When you are so blinded by your hate for a player that you can't admit what he has done for the game.

Again, he grew up under Magic & Bird shadows, scoring 50+ when those two would take all the titles, I don't think there's too much to argue when you didn't see those raising up the league to the level it is now.

He didn't. Give me one good reason apart from "the fans voted him in" why he deserved that spot.

Whether you like it or not, that's the main reason. Plus he's an all-star, an exciting player and a showman.

I have said it to a couple of people who said MJ didn't deserve the start.

Well, the All-Star is a game where the starting 5 are selected by the fans. If you still think MJ was supposed to win that spot, why didn't you vote for him and asked everyone to vote for him?. After the votes showed who the starters were, then you start complaining that MJ should have start. The fans didn't want MJ to start, if they did, they would have voted for him.

No. I only said they were haters when they said MJ didn't deserve to play in his last All Star game.

Nobody said MJ didn't deserve to be in the all-star, of course he had the rights to play in that game, once the managers take the rest of the team, but not taking the starting spot from anyone selected by the fans. If you voted for him, you are just one against Millions & Millions of fans who didn't. If those wanted to see him shitting like he did, getting blocked shots, missing dunks, missing his first 7 or 8 shots, they would have voted for him Clinton, is it too hard for you to understand that?

[Rens]

Malone only scored more than MJ in his career

In more seasons.

Your point being?

No. I only said they were haters when they said MJ didn't deserve to play in his last All Star game.

Nobody said MJ didn't deserve to be in the all-star, of course he had the rights to play in that game, once the managers take the rest of the team, but not taking the starting spot from anyone selected by the fans. If you voted for him, you are just one against Millions & Millions of fans who didn't. If those wanted to see him shitting like he did, getting blocked shots, missing dunks, missing his first 7 or 8 shots, they would have voted for him Clinton, is it too hard for you to understand that?

If stats and games show there are better players that should've been selected before Jordan, but weren't, and it's being pointed out you conclude people are haters.
There's a difference between deserving and "having rights to".

[Sweetlou]

A lot of you guys need a serious reality check. Arguing whether Carter deserved to start over Jordan? Or Jordan over Carter? Come on!!!! Quit smoking that "stuff"!

The All Star game is supposed to be a showcase for the best players IN A PARTICULAR SEASON to shine on the national stage. As you know most players don't get that kind of exposure during the season since most games are scheduled for broadcast because of their interest factor. You know, defending champs, local teams, etc. With that in mind, would ANY of you consider EITHER Jordan or Carter one of the 12 best in the Eastern Conference this year? I think that answer is a resounding NO. So neither one "deserved" to be there without buying a ticket.

HOWEVER. We all know it is a popularity contest. I have been watching these games for many years. There have been numerous instances of a player being voted in because he is traditionally a fan favorite. The Magic incident being one of the most noticeable. In fact it has been so bad on occasion that guys who deserved to play never got the call on their one good shot.

So lets be real here. This argument is really about who is the most popular. Since this is essentially a popularity contest where the winners get some national exposure and a chance to pick up a little pocket change. In that case they both should definitely have been in the game. And with them being two of the most popular players to play in the last decade, they both probably should have started too. But that is only if you believe the game to be about who is most popular, and not about who has excelled the most this season.

[Clinton]

Well, it does have to do much cause you are complaining for those who think MJ was not supposed to start, and all you know about MJ is those winning years when he learned to pass the ball in order to win and now it would show that he deserved it.

I can't reply to that, it doesn't even make sense.

Again, he grew up under Magic & Bird shadows,

MJ wasn't under anyones shadows.

I don't think there's too much to argue when you didn't see those raising up the league to the level it is now.

Too much to argue? What are you talking about?

Nobody said MJ didn't deserve to be in the all-star

Really.

is it too hard for you to understand that?

Is it too hard for you, or any of the other Jordan haters (Dan, Shane, Ben) to understand that we were farewelling a legend of the game. If you don't think he is the best, he has to be in your top 5. But the respect had to be shown.

Your point being?

Malone had more time to score those points. If MJ didn't retire to play baseball, and then again after the second three-peat. MJ would have scored more points than Karl.

[scubilete]

EGlinton wrote

MJ wasn't under anyones shadows.

, You just can say that, not knowing anything but whatever others say, you sound like the same Walton. Start watching tapes, now that you missed Jordan starting years, of who are the developers & innovators of the game and then you can argue that he wasn't under anyone's shadow, if you still believe it that way.

EGlinton wrote

to understand that we were farewelling a legend of the game.

, yeah a legend of the game, so what? if you want to see legends playing, ask the league to get back the legends all star game, then he will start again.

EGlinton wrote

I can't reply to that, it doesn't even make sense.

It does if you are watching Basketball since when? 94 or 95?