Celtics favz, C-Webb struggling n Karl might send Melo away?

The whole articles a pretty decent read.........last part is prolly the most interesting...I wonder if Karl will actually try n trade Melo?

Easy being green

Celtics' moves make them faves to win Atlantic

Antoine Walker (r.) is donning Celtic green again - as is Gary Payton (below), who was in deal to bring Walker back to Boston, but then waived by Hawks.
You really couldn't judge the winners and losers from the Feb. 24 trading deadline until this past Tuesday, when teams were allowed to pick up players off waivers and make them eligible for the playoffs. On this scorecard, here's who won and lost:

Boston - Give an A to Danny Ainge, who had done nothing but match Isiah Thomas, bad move for bad move, since he took over the Celtics. Ainge understands that Paul Pierce is vastly better when Antoine Walker is on the floor as his teammate - it's a chemistry thing - so he worked out a way to bring Walker back from the Hawks.

Ainge then had to address his point guard position, because he moved Gary Payton to Atlanta in the Walker deal and was left with unproven Delonte West and Marcus Banks to run his club. Maybe it was prearranged and maybe it wasn't, but as soon as Payton was dealt, everyone knew that he would be making a U-turn. Sure enough, the Hawks waived him, he cleared waivers, and is back starting for the Celtics.

Several GMs privately called it a case of cap-circumvention, also noting a similar maneuver that the Mavericks pulled with the Bucks in getting back Alan Henderson, who went to Milwaukee in the Keith Van Horn deal.

"What the Celtics did looks funny and should be scrutinized," said one Western Conference GM. "But who's going to blow the whistle?"

Nobody. Not when they would have done exactly what Boston and Dallas did, if in their shoes. Mavs owner Mark Cuban said there was no prearranged deal, even though one of his assistant coaches, Del Harris, and his son, Bucks GM Larry Harris, were said to be have worked out the arrangement.

"We didn't know they were going to waive him," Cuban said last week via email. "When they did, what else were we going to use the roster spot for?"

Compared to Payton's return to Boston, Henderson was a minor move. The Celtics should now lock up the Atlantic Division.

Philadelphia - During one of Chris Webber's first games with the Sixers, he sat down on the bench and said, loudly enough for a few teammates to hear: "I can't wait 'til this year is over." Nice attitude, huh? Well, nobody said that being No. 2 to Allen Iverson was going to be easy. Vince Carter has embraced his second-fiddle status with the Nets, but he still gets his shots, while Jason Kidd has all the pressure of being the No. 1 guy. But Webber is clearly struggling in his new role.

"It's not necessarily about me and A.I. being on the same page," Webber said. "It's just two different philosophies. That's all I can say. You just have to see if you can fit that philosophy."

Webber is having a tough time with coach Jim O'Brien's philosophy. O'Brien runs full-contact practices and even requires his players to have their ankles taped for contact in pregame shoot-arounds - a practice not heard of since Pat Riley used to put the Heat through three-hour, kamikaze shoot-arounds in preseason. With his mobility limited because of his knee troubles, Webber isn't thrilled about full-contact sessions, just as he expressed his displeasure when O'Brien said that they want him to attack out on pick-and-rolls. "I can't do that," Webber told teammates. "My first step is not there."

Detroit - When the Pistons signed Elden Campbell, after the Nets arranged a buyout with him, Chauncey Billups raved, "We're whole again, man." Campbell's return could be huge if and when the Pistons have to meet the Heat in the playoffs. He had quality minutes vs. Shaquille O'Neal in the Finals last June.

Indiana - The Pacers added a much-needed big body in Dale Davis, waived by the Hornets, but their fading playoff hopes took a major blow when Jermaine O'Neal sprained his right shoulder Thursday in Denver. O'Neal will miss a minimum of five games on the injured list. "I don't know what it is, but things haven't been going our way since Detroit," said Anthony Johnson, referring to the Nov. 19 brawl with the Pistons at Auburn Hills. "Everything seems to be falling to pieces."

O'Neal's status and Orlando's struggles have given playoff hope to teams such as the Nets, even if they don't win the Atlantic.

Losing the Magic touch

A month ago, they were talking in Orlando about giving head coach Johnny Davis an extension. But since the Magic has been on a slide, losing 13 of its last 24 games entering the weekend, word from the front office now is that Davis had better steer the Magic into the postseason.

Davis and GM John Weisbrod are having "philosophical differences" over who should play and how Davis goes about his business. Davis is a quiet, pampering type, while Weisbrod, an ex-hockey player and exec, favors a fiery, confrontational style and has been looking for intensity from his coaching staff.

Davis has tried to shake things up by taking Steve Francis off the ball. Francis had been averaging a whopping 4.1 turnovers per game, fourth-highest in the league, behind only Kobe Bryant (4.4), Dwyane Wade (4.2) and Iverson (4.2). So Davis recently put the ball in the hands of a rookie Jameer Nelson.

But it hasn't been all Stevie Franchise's fault. The Magic coaches complained loudly from the opener that Cuttino Mobley was a defensive liability. That was the impetus for the Mobley-for-Doug Christie trade in early January. Christie has been upset with lack of playing time, missed Friday's game vs. the Knicks and could be headed out the door. But since the deal, there's been no improvement on the defensive end.

Before Friday night, Orlando had given up at least 100 points in 14 of its previous 24 games, with opponents averaging 107 ppg in those 14 games, and the Magic losing nine of them.

Slam Dunks

# Shaquille O'Neal was not happy to hear that Stan Van Gundy doesn't plan on using Shaq and Alonzo Mourning together. "I don't get it," Shaq said. But knowing how O'Neal operates, he will do his best to drive home the point to Van Gundy and Pat Riley until something is worked out to Shaq's satisfaction. Not that Van Gundy is someone who changes his system to fit his personnel. But it wouldn't be the first time that Shaq and Van Gundy have butted heads. Shaq, who turns 33 today, was used to having more days off from practice with Phil Jackson, who handles the regular season entirely differently than Riley and Van Gundy. Suffice to say, Jackson has always placed less of a premium on the 82 games than Riley and his disciples. Also, Shaq feels he had more freedom in Jackson's triangle offense than he does in Miami's system.

# George Karl's benching of Carmelo Anthony in Denver's Feb. 25 overtime win in Memphis caused a stir back in Milwaukee, where executives from the Karl era who know their former coach's MO, are already convinced that he will work to get Anthony traded this summer. Even with 'Melo, who doesn't believe in playing defense, the Nuggets have started shutting down foes in fourth quarters while winning 12 of their last 16 games, entering last night's contest at the Clippers. The surge pulled the Nuggets into a tie with the Lakers heading into the weekend for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Western Conference. The Lakers' remaining schedule is brutal, with 15 of their final 24 games on the road, including stops in Dallas, Washington, Philly, Miami, Denver, San Antonio, Memphis, Phoenix, Seattle and Sacramento.

"What the Celtics did looks funny and should be scrutinized," said one Western Conference GM. "But who's going to blow the whistle?"

It's not as though this is a new way of dealing players though. Between 1995 and 1999, I'm sure the Knicks traded Herb Williams two or three times, signing him back as soon as he cleared waivers. Admittedly, Herb was near the end of his career and some higher profile players are involved in the recent trades, but as the article goes on to say, no one will blow the whistle because it's something that every team would do if need be, and given the opportunity.

Philadelphia - During one of Chris Webber's first games with the Sixers, he sat down on the bench and said, loudly enough for a few teammates to hear: "I can't wait 'til this year is over." Nice attitude, huh? Well, nobody said that being No. 2 to Allen Iverson was going to be easy. Vince Carter has embraced his second-fiddle status with the Nets, but he still gets his shots, while Jason Kidd has all the pressure of being the No. 1 guy. But Webber is clearly struggling in his new role.

So much for excitement about the move. Mind you, C-Webb's used to being the #1 guy his whole career. It's easy to say you're looking forward to playing alongside another star player and agreeing to take on a new role, but for a guy like Webber who is still capable of being the top guy on his team, there's an adjustment period. The Sixers' record post-trade deadline surely has an effect on the situation as well. It's been said millions of times before, but winning makes a lot of these issues go away.

i wouldnt be suprised if karl trades melo. personally i don't think he makes the team that much better.
i think billy king got cwebb in part to keep iverson in a sixers uni. at least cwebb has more trade value than fat dog... i mean big dog. iverson would've wanted out if the sixers didn't make the playoffs this year. the way iverson plays, he'll run out of steam by the team he reaches 33.

I wonder if 'Melo will be like Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson....made a splash offensively in his 1st couple of seasons and then never built on his game....and didn't play any D....

although I hope this is not the case....

i wouldn't be surprised if karl asks kiki to bring in a big point guard. karl has admitted he has an affinity for bigger point guards

granted carmelo has not played as well this year as people thought he would, but i have to say its definetly to early to give up on him and trade hi away. if you do pull the trigger you better get alot in return.

see that's what seperates LeBron from Carmelo...Carmelo in my opinion is more over hyped than LeBron..EA really suck up for him, but all he can do is score. Glenn the 2nd sounds just about right in my opinon..scorer..going to have some decent years..but towards the latter part, ego comes into play and things go down hill.

At this point of his career, I'd say Melo might be more of a Dominique Wilkins in terms of his role. If LeBron is a hybrid of Magic and Michael, as he is often labelled, then Melo is more of a Nique type, though Nique was better defensively. LeBron will be succesful creating opportunities through his passing and scoring, as Magic and Michael did, while Melo's success will come as the guy who has no qualms about scoring a lot of points.

If I was Karl I'd trade Melo's ass in a flash, the Nuggets are good enough to win a championship w/in the nxt 2,3 yrs so why wait for Melo to mature?

I'm guessing you're glad the Pistons pick Darko over him then?!?

If I was Karl I'd trade Melo's ass in a flash, the Nuggets are good enough to win a championship w/in the nxt 2,3 yrs so why wait for Melo to mature?

And that's why you're an idiot .

The Nuggets are no where near a championship team at the moment, and if you trade Melo, they wont have a shot in 2 or 3 years. Melo is to Denver what Webber was to Sacramento: he turned a laughing stock into a respectable team.

If I was Karl I'd trade Melo's ass in a flash, the Nuggets are good enough to win a championship w/in the nxt 2,3 yrs so why wait for Melo to mature?

And that's why you're an idiot .

The Nuggets are no where near a championship team at the moment, and if you trade Melo, they wont have a shot in 2 or 3 years. Melo is to Denver what Webber was to Sacramento: he turned a laughing stock into a respectable team.

.......

Ive said this in the other Bron vs Melo thread.....if Melo wasnt playing for Denver they'll be an ok team....well sorta like the current Magic team without Franchise....Melo brings a presence to the court....hes a born winner....he took a college team to the promise land and won it all and hes going to be the key for the Nuggets aswell....

Matt, who exactly will u trade Melo for??....MICHAEL JORDAN is closer to Melo than he is to Bron.....not cause he wears his shoes but he has high regard for him....

Melo can become a Shawn Marion if he works on that defense.....and none of the top tier of youngsters still play good defense......Bron doesnt, Wade doesnt nor does Bosh....their all learning.....heck some guys still havent learn to play proper defense ex t-mac, vc etc but their titled as superstars....its not an easy thing to do....just trading such a talented player just cause hes not playing strong defense is dumb.....if Karl does that then he should resign

Actually the only comparison between mj and melo is the winning attitude. Apart from that, they are nothing alike. With that being said, Carmelo has a chance to redfine his position at small forward. He isnt the next Jamal Mashburn or Glenn Robinson, this guy has a wealth of potential. I think its hilarious that people talk about all this "talent" that Darko has, when they havent seen him do anything, and they say that Carmelo has reached about as good as he'll ever get, despite the fact that he is improving his game and showing flashes of brilliance. A quick comparison:

Darko's flash of "brilliance":
8 points against Milwalkee

Carmelo's shining moment:
41 points against seattle in a key game down the strecth of last season

You tell me who has more potential.

Actually the only comparison between mj and melo is the winning attitude. .

I should have explained that a bit more.....I was talkin abt Melo's n MJ's off-court relationship....Jordan talks to Melo way more than he does to Bron.

Darko's showing of brilliance : Getting his ears infected after piercing his ears(so he would fit in Detroit better)

I'm guessing you're glad the Pistons pick Darko over him then?!?

I didn't want Melo on the team because Detroit already had a scoring back court. Add to that Prince's defense, Larry Brown and Detroit's defense policy and Melo was a no-no. We won't know how Darko turns out for a while, but it's great to have Prince improving his offense and assertiveness as well as his D.

The Nuggets are no where near a championship team at the moment, and if you trade Melo, they wont have a shot in 2 or 3 years. Melo is to Denver what Webber was to Sacramento: he turned a laughing stock into a respectable team.

that's what people said about Detroit too, and it didnt take them long to win a championship. Obviously if they traded Melo for nothing then they wouldnt have a chance but your at least expecting a very good player back...preferably someone more defense and team orientated.

In the end having a respectable team doesn't mean a thing if you cant take your team to the next level

Darko's flash of "brilliance":
8 points against Milwalkee

Carmelo's shining moment:
41 points against seattle in a key game down the strecth of last season

You tell me who has more potential

Darko....given that Melo is closer to reaching his potential

anyways, it's gonna take time for Darko to get any significant PT, after all he's got a lot to compete with....not to mention he's gotta stop looking like a stunned mullet on the court

Well, if Melo wants to stay in Denver, he's going to have to start believing in defense, because I don't think Karl likes the, "I don't believe in defense" attitude.

Actually the only comparison between mj and melo is the winning attitude. Apart from that, they are nothing alike. With that being said, Carmelo has a chance to redfine his position at small forward. He isnt the next Jamal Mashburn or Glenn Robinson, this guy has a wealth of potential. I think its hilarious that people talk about all this "talent" that Darko has, when they havent seen him do anything, and they say that Carmelo has reached about as good as he'll ever get, despite the fact that he is improving his game and showing flashes of brilliance. A quick comparison:

Darko's flash of "brilliance":
8 points against Milwalkee

Carmelo's shining moment:
41 points against seattle in a key game down the strecth of last season

You tell me who has more potential.

i agree that melo is far and away better but this is unfair because if darko was starting somewhere he would clearly be better than this. he is buried,rightfully so,behind good big men so his time is time to shine is limited.

This Melo/Darko debate is clearly a result of a "crevice" in the system. The Pistons were a solid playoff contender who didn't really need anything, yet somehow, they ended up with the second pick in the draft. This isn't supposed to happen. Teams with second overall picks are supposed to need second overall picks.

Had it actually been a lottery team with this lottery pick who took Darko over Melo, than it would certainly be safe to say that they fucked up. I have no doubt in my mind that Darko would not have succeeded had he been put on a non-contender. He still would have found a way to embarass himself.

I really see no reason to criticize a team who won the NBA Finals on their draft picks that year. It's stupid.

lol... We've never seen Darko play much.. so u cant compare Melo and him

Denver better not trade Melo... Melo is what has rerstarted bball there!

Darko already has a ring Sorry, this just occured to me.

Anyway, I gotta agree with the last three posts. Melo have been playing lots of minutes, and Darko never was given a big chance to work on his potential (other than in practice).

unless Darko starts getting at least 20 mpg... we cant compare the two. and then u take into account how important both guys are to their teams...

o man... if somehow melo ended up on the pacers this year...

tinsley/johnson
miller/jones
melo/jackson/(james) jones
oneal/davis
foster/pollard

that could win it all right there

dont flame me for it tho, dont worry i know it wont happen in a million years.

Trade deadline has been and gone

that's what people said about Detroit too, and it didnt take them long to win a championship. Obviously if they traded Melo for nothing then they wouldnt have a chance but your at least expecting a very good player back...preferably someone more defense and team orientated.

Like I said back then, Detroit has a much better offensive team than what denver has without Melo. Billups and Hamilton can actually carry a team during playoff series (Hamilton against the pacers, Billups against the lakers), so if denver traded their only real offensive player for, say, tayshaun prince, they would rely on earl Boykins to break other teams down... and that simply isnt going to work.

Darko....given that Melo is closer to reaching his potential

So explain to me, how do you know that 1) Melo is close to reaching his potential, and 2) Darko will even be the player that Melo is now, let alone in the future.

I really see no reason to criticize a team who won the NBA Finals on their draft picks that year. It's stupid.

this is what i have been saying since last year. everyone kept going on and on about how the pistons should have taken melo. well what if they did and the team concept was totally ruined and they were a second round flop? to be honest if they drafted me with the second round pick and still won the title then they did thier job perfectly fine in my book

Melo's reached his potential???

wtf are u talkin abt hes not even 30(usually peak time)......let alone 23 or 22 !!

I rarerly remember players reaching their potential after 1 and a half years in the NBA