Lebron: Already better than Kobe?

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Postby Garnett21 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:35 am

The G.O.A.T. wrote:I see your a first-time poster, Welcome (Y)
Let me give you some advice though, don't resurrect threads a month old.
As for LeBron being the second-best in the NBA...What, did Duncan dissappear?


ty man first to greet my 1st post..
just saw lebron is leadin' for this years MVP for now. maybe he'll be..
some ppls can think that lebron is better than duncan n thats the way it is :)
i hope duncan ll be better for this season.he has good stats allready..
duncan is another all-star player but lebron is so special.
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Postby fgrep15 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:57 am

Im eager to be flamed but Kobe would beat LeBron in one on one hands tied behind his back. And nope Im not the fan of either of these players.

Well it's not really a lie, Kobe has more to his offensive arsenal, and Kobe is a much much better one on one defender at this point. Though Lebron is good off the ball and playing the lanes, in one on one, their's no teammates, and with Kobe also being a better shooter, yes Kobe would win.
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Postby Amphatoast on Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:33 pm

if we talking 1 on 1 then mcgrady comes into the picture cuz his offensive skills is good too. defense, well, if he can score 13 in 35sec i think he can try do a shoot out like the suns do night in and night out
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Postby fgrep15 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:54 pm

McGrady is actually a pretty good man to man defender when he's trying, and he's been trying in Houston, his defense in Houston could put him just a fw levels below being a Second Team or so defender at his position. He's been playing very good defense. One on one, he'd beat them both because he has the height and quickness advantage, and he has the best shot in terms of from all over the floor.

Kobe is a better mid-range shooter, but from outside McGrady is better, and him being 6'9 will help him...
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Postby Indy on Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:19 pm

Lebron is better simple as that
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Postby Matt on Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:34 am

give it 2 more years and LeBron will be the best G in the L hands down. It's just a matter of time before he wins his first MVP and championship....both seem inevitable.
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Postby cyanide on Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:56 pm

Chris_23 wrote:Best players in the league right now are Garnett and Nowitzky, then Garnett again and then comes Duncan.

So, you LeBron bandwagoners, come COME and light my fire!


For starters, it's Nowitzki.
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Postby patrixxx73 on Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:17 pm

Despite his early years in the NBA Lebron James has already shown the maturity and the leadership that even some veteran players doesn't have... Given the enough time, exposures and the oppurtinity to bloom/peak, He will be one of the best players in the history of NBA.
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Postby Fresh8 on Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:41 pm

I have to admit, right now it seems that LeBron may be better than Kobe. Kobe needs to make his teammates better when he comes back from injury else we are loteery bound. He better opick up his act!
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Postby beau_boy04 on Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:24 pm

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Postby Drex on Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:37 am

Too lazy to register. Can you post the article??
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Postby Chris_23 on Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:03 pm

Absolutely nothing special about that article. Just blah blah blah he has potential to become one of the stars in the league, blah blah blah, more magic type than air, blah blah...

Nothing which havent been discussed in these forums.

Clevelands perfomance as of late has weakened, being 5 to 5 last ten games.

Ilgauskas is though impressing me more and more. I remember in mid 90s when he came to the league with my countryman Martin Muursepp (career high 24 pts for Dallas). Ilgauskas struggled and Martin was on bench alot of games, then Muursepp left the league and Ilgauskas struggled with injuries more and more.

Another great from-injury comeback along with Grant Hill's.
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Postby Chris_23 on Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:46 pm

nine out of twenty-five this dream boy LeBron shot tonight. Absolutely terrible perfomance against Pacers. He took so ridiculous shots, and only one of them from 3pt range...

More and more it seems that the best player in the second quarter of the season has been Ilgauskas. He has shined last game series and now was on 20 points and 15 rebounds, 10 (!) which were offensive rebs.

By LeBron thats as bad perfomance as Ive seen by Kobe this season, so Ill strongly stand by the opinion that LeBron is definetly not better than Kobe.

I am frankly sick of this Kobe hatred that dissolves the fans right now. Its sickening. Kobe plays good and he has proved it many times recently.

Remember it was LeBron who was with his "whazzup" attitude at all stars game. Expected so much of him, but Kobe was more stellar there even though alot of the crowed booed during his introduction.

Kobe doesnt deserve such response from the crowd.

Also, Kobe too scored 20 points tonight, but at least he held it on 50% shooting...

lol did anyone notice that Anthony was 23% last night :P
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Postby beau_boy04 on Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:56 am

Ok let me see.... Lebron is shooting almost 50% and Kobe is shooting what...? a barely 40% hahahahaha ok your post was pointless.

Thank you very much.
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Postby Chris_23 on Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:47 am

beau_boy04 wrote:Ok let me see.... Lebron is shooting almost 50% and Kobe is shooting what...? a barely 40% hahahahaha ok your post was pointless.

Thank you very much.


Say what?

Kobe vs LeBron 1on1 and its good if LeBron gets couple of baskets. Kobe will beat LeBron without a question. In current form, LeBron is weak and needs to improve. Cleveland is 50% last 15 games or so, and this is barely playoffs. Ilgauskas keeps the team alive, but LeBron needs to improve if they want to play more than the first round.
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Postby Sauru on Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:58 am

Jeffx wrote:Let LeBron do what Kobe's done in the playoffs, then we can talk. That's when the real players step up.



this is what i usually say and its the only reason right now why i will not label lebron better. i am not gonna sit here and say he needs to win a ring before i call him better but he does need to show he can perform in the playoffs. also for all the people who like to throw kobe's 3 rings in the face of lebron supporters i still stick to my opinion that since shaq took the mvp all 3 years it was his team and not kobe's. when lebron wins a ring it will be his team.

one more point i need to mention about the whole jordan topic. if kobe can learn what jordan learned he will instantly jump a few notches in my book. its true that you need your teammates to win and if they get thier shots they will work harder on defense(already stated in thread) so what jordan did was just let the game come to him the first 3 quarters and let him teammates have thier fun. then in the 4th when the game goes serious he would just take over assuming his team was not playing well enough to win otherwise. i think kobe forces the game too much right now personally but like many have said he could still get better with age.
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Postby cyanide on Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:54 am

There's a huge difference between who's better as a team player, as a one-on-one player, and as a playoff performer. Right now, in most respects, the better team player is highly regarded as the most important factor, and it's LeBron. And if he's a better team player than Kobe, then as a team in the playoffs, there should be parallels... but that is unproven for now.
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Postby Chris_23 on Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:55 pm

Man Cleveland felll again tonight (to 2005 NBA Champions to-be though). LeBron was so shut down that it looked akward already. Man why does he keep trying to shoot if he is so locked... Last game he shot 35%, now he was on 27%...

Average perfomance by Ilgauskas too, but yeah.

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Kobe had average shooting on 41%. I did like however that Lakers didnt seem to be struggling so much all around as in some other previous games.
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Postby Matthew on Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:59 pm

I'm not making excuses for lebron, but he is young, and he hasnt learnt when to shoot and when not to shoot just yet. There will be times when he forces it...
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Postby Matthew on Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:11 pm

Kobe is:
"The next Jordan"
"The Adulterer"
"The Rapist"
"The Team destroyer"
"The player that made Phil Jackson retire"

Actually only 2 of these are correct, I'll let you decide/guess which ones though. Here is the real facts about Kobe:
-Career average of 22.2 ppg, despite only starting 7 of his first 150 games (which means when he starts, he averages alot more than 22.2 ppg)

-Was the youngest player to start a nba game, when he was 17 in his rookie season

- Has won a slam dunk contest and an all star game mvp

-Won 3 championships from 2000 to 2002

All in all, one of the greats, but he is better known for his rape charge last year.
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Postby Chris_23 on Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:17 pm

TheCambyManVol3 wrote:I'm not making excuses for lebron, but he is young, and he hasnt learnt when to shoot and when not to shoot just yet. There will be times when he forces it...


Im actually impressed with how LeBron is trying to develop his shooting. If you remember last year he was making those Michael Jordan jumpers (that Kobe has used rather well past few seasons). THat style really didnt work for him well, and this year he was driving in more, playing sort of this young Grant Hill style. Then recently he has tried Magic, passing and generating havod in the opposition.

But yes his shooting and defense are two things he needs to build into strong foundation for his future play now. He should drive in and be confident at it when he can handle his defender, he has great build and good courtvision. Forced jumpers are really not the way to go. And the fact that he is great passer he should take advantage of that and pass in those situations instead of doing those force jumpers that he has extremely struggled with last ten games or so.

Cavs has a great lineup to use, fabulous all around play options. Im more than sure that Silas knows this very well, but Spurs defense owned the King tonight. Cavs were much better at the beginning of the season, they now have lost 3 in a row, with Chicago knocking on the door. If they wont improve then their season second quarter 50% will really hammer them if they wont get out of it anytime soon. Currently theyd be matched with Wizards and its not something theyd like to do imho.
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Postby Matthew on Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:23 pm

The comparison to grant hill is right on the money(Y). They play so similar, with their offensive games mainly around the mid range and getting to the rim, although lebron does shoot more threes than hill used to.

Lebron, though, just needs to know not to force things. If he is getting suffocated defensively, run a pick and roll, go isolation and create for teamates, get to the rim and get to the line. It's simple... and he will learn it.
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Postby Strike Freedom on Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:16 am

hes got the time to learn it as well.. he's young.. and coach silas will definitely keep workin on him..
good thing bout LJ is he's not as selfish as kobe. .. (i think+hope). :lol:
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Kobe vs MJ- MISMATCH!!!!!
MJ is just basketball God.. cuz he not only can offense well, defense well.. he also made teammates around him better..
who knows when might Luc Longley be useful? only when he plays with Jordan..

:lol:
end of topic
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Postby Chris_23 on Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:53 am

Luc Longley was useful. Chicago was a team, they did not need a centre like Shaq in the lineup. If you check Longleys stats, they average more than many of good starting lineup centres today.

Chicagos transformation was an interesting thing to follow.WHen Jordan arrived the team was a mess, literally. However by the early ninties after five years of hard work by Michael and the team, with Scottie developing soon into an all star, the team was different. Michael was considered a great post-up player and he had the ability to take the game into his own hands already since the very first year of his career. This caused massive critique, peopel saying he cant make his team better and such. Well he did, he was Scottie Pippens on-court basketball teacher, many of Scotties fundamentals came from Michael, and even vice versa. The near-perfect duo of 90s standing strong next to Stock-to-Malone.

But since Ill continue this off-topic here (this is lebron kobe thread), Luc Longley and Dennis Rodman, along with Ron were roleplayers. But they were not your regular roleplayers. With Ron, the PG of the team was really Michael being modern on-court coach late 90s. Ron Harper, who was a magnificent player in the beginning of his career, struggled after injuries, but managed great game in Bulls still. Now Rodman was another factor, he was a really hard man to contain as a persona, but Jordan and the Bulls were the only ones capable of doing that. There were times when MJ held Rodman back physically on court, or cried out loud at him. But he was contained. Rodman was never Rodman more than he was at Chicago.

And this Luc Longley. From Minnesota, a roleplayer centre, picked for Chicago as a contributing Centre capable of fulfilling the position, and capable of shooting and passing. They had Rodman on boards so Longley never averaged a double double because of rebouns, but his importance was strong. The only game Lakers went against Bulls in 97-98, Oneal was kept on 24 points, 4 points below the average so even such a dominant player didnt have the chance to take control of Longley who was a mere roleplayer.

Call that overpraising if you will but Jordan and Russell are the only two players in the history of the league who were capable of making their teammates so much better on court. No Bulls star shined after the dynasty fell apart.

But now, back to topic (the last section was about the fact that comparing Michael to Kobe or LeBron is just a silly thing, that happens every once in a while, it was popular with kobe for three years in a row before the charges, and is a popular subject now with LeBron who recently has proved that he has a very long way to go yet)

But as far as selfishness is conserned, yeah you may consider Kobe selfish with his near seven assists per game this season... LeBron has just one more per game...

Ok, perhaps you dont consider assists as the selfishness factor. Then shooting? Last ten games LeBron has been more selfish than Kobe. LeBron has been on 30% last two games and things arent looking good against Sonics who come up next.

As far as Kobe hatred goes, I feel sorry for the guy. He is one of the best in the league today, yes definetly better than LeBron, and he receives such a bad response from the crowd. People boo and such. He does not deserve it really. People make mistakes, but come on give him room. If even lakers fans boo him then Im sad to say but the lakers wont be seeing a title in the next ten years.

Its unfair to boo such a player. WHat, you are saying that Jordan is perfect? NO. LeBron? Definetly not. God damnit, I think less of EVERY GOD DAMN person who thinks that they are so good themselves to boo a great player that Kobe Bryant is. I want to see ONE person who says that he or she hasnt made a mistake in his or her life. Kobe made a mistake. He apologized. He was sorry god damnit, if this is not enough for you then I honestly cant take you as a respectable basketball fan.

Was I really the only one who saw pain in Kobes eyes as the people booed during the All-Star introduction and did not smile? Was I really the only non-Kobe fan who did not smile seeing the man suffer because of the response he received?

Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers no8 does not deserve such hatred.
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Postby The GOAT on Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:58 am

Holy shit :shocked:
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